DSLR,s seem to be holding their value...

Retune said:
Which models are you looking at? Prices of discontinued FX Nikons are pretty reasonable, and I don't remember them being cheaper a year ago. MPB seem have a glut of them. The D810 was originally a £2700 camera, so £700-£900 for a body that was still current 4 years ago is (if anything) lower than I might expect if there were no competition from mirrorless.
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I was looking at models like the D7200 sort of range, priced at around £550...
 
jonbeeza said:
Just had a quick look at new DSLR's , and prices seem to be holding well, with not much signs off offers or anything.
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Here's a prediction - some current dSLRs at the high end will remain pricey. They'll have an extended life as perhaps the last of their kind, remaining in the lineup at full price while the manufacturers concentrate on mirrorless, probably going out of production as demand decreases but only being formally discontinued when 'new old stock' dries up. This was pretty much what happened with the last film SLRs. The Nikon F6 never became a cheap camera, even secondhand.
 
Retune said:
Here's a prediction - some current dSLRs at the high end will remain pricey. They'll have an extended life as perhaps the last of their kind, remaining in the lineup at full price while the manufacturers concentrate on mirrorless, probably going out of production as demand decreases but only being formally discontinued when 'new old stock' dries up. This was pretty much what happened with the last film SLRs. The Nikon F6 never became a cheap camera, even secondhand.
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That could possibly happen I suppose, and being such the price may even increase, as people fight over the last remaining new ones available.
 
jonbeeza said:
I was looking at models like the D7200 sort of range, priced at around £550...
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I wonder if the resale value of the D7200 has been helped by the specs of the D7500? - in some respects, the new model is a downgrade, losing pixels, a card slot, DOF preview, grip compatibility, and the AI coupling that's required for metering with most manual focus lenses, etc.
 
Retune said:
I wonder if the resale value of the D7200 has been helped by the specs of the D7500? - in some respects, the new model is a downgrade, losing pixels, a card slot, DOF preview, grip compatibility, and the AI coupling that's required for metering with most manual focus lenses, etc.
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It must be, as I am sure prices were not that high last year. I had been keeping a check on the D7000 7100 and the 7200, so yes crept up a bit.
 
Funny thing...

When I type, are DSLR,s into a search engine, the words Dead and Obsolete, auto appear. Maybe a lot of people are asking, if it is worth buying into the DSLR system.
 
jonbeeza said:
Funny thing...

When I type, are DSLR,s into a search engine, the words Dead and Obsolete, auto appear. Maybe a lot of people are asking, if it is worth buying into the DSLR system.
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I don't get that on Google, but autocomplete is influenced by your earlier searches. I bet Alan sees 'dSLRs are all rubbish compared to Sony mirrorless'. :)
 
Noticed on MPB , with some bodies advertised, with the description of" Please Note: There are signs of fungus present within the viewfinder, this does not affect the cameras performance or the image produced". They are not cheap either. o_O
 
Retune said:
Well, monetary value is secondary to everything unless you're a dealer or a speculator hoping to turn a profit. Nobody else (apart from collectors) should buy a film camera unless they want to shoot film. For those who do (generally alongside digital), it's interesting that film gear is currently at least holding its value, including those manual focus primes. The flipside of this is that some of the gear is now becoming unaffordable. As well as cameras, there are cult lenses from the film era, sold at inflated prices, often to mirrorless users. Some of these lenses weren't highly regarded at the time, but now have a new market in people who enjoy their 'character'. Others were superb lenses then and remain so now, though in the meantime mass market lenses have come a long way. An unremarkable lens of the quality we expect in the days of 50 megapixel sensors may well be more than competitive with some of the legendary glass of the past.
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Some kit is holding it's value at a point much below its original value. For eg the 50mm f1.x we picked up years ago for £10 might cost £60 now but that's probably peanuts to what it cost new and in the context of how much people got paid back then. Back then it probably cost the equivalent of what the latest mid to high end lens costs today and that's no real surprise as in its day it was amongst the best of the type.

Photograph gear like some other areas could also be subject to fads and kit that could at some point be next to worthless could at another be worth quite a bit. I just don't want to bother factoring that in or living with the limitations it might bring. Maybe it's like buying a car today for £100 and selling it in 5 years time for £100. You've done well, yes, but you've only done well because someone else bought it at a much higher price and age ate away at it until it hit a point at which it couldn't really reduce in price any more or might in fact go up in value due to inflation or increased interest.
 
Retune said:
I don't get that on Google, but autocomplete is influenced by your earlier searches. I bet Alan sees 'dSLRs are all rubbish compared to Sony mirrorless'. :)
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I used film cameras including compacts, RF's and an SLR for decades before I went digital and even then I used DSLR's for decades before going mirrorless.

I don't see any of these as rubbish but it is like comparing a typewriter to a PC. Yes, a typewriter has charms but the modern kit functions much better in todays world and allows the user much more scope and chance to produce a technically better result.

And a PS.
If all you've ever used is a typewriter you may cling to it and see pc's as intimidating and souless but if you can see what a pc could bring to your work and output you may be tempted to give one a go even if realising that a typewriter will always be worth it's scrap value whilst you may have to skip the pc one day.
 
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My first camera was given to me by my brother-in-law on my 18th birthday. He had previously bought the camera in Aden when serving in the army but was sent home wounded. I was very grateful because I knew the camera meant a lot to him. I actually took it to the IOM TT race the same year. The camera was a 35mm Yashika film camera with a very limited range of settings. I moved on to other cameras fairly soon but kept this old Yashika in a cupboard. About 30 years later, we met up and my brother-in-law was aware that I was well into photography and had bought some expensive cameras. He asked me if I still had the Yashika and would I be happy to give it back to him as it had a special value to him. I was happy to do so and even more grateful that he had been prepared to give me something of such great value (not monetary) all those years previously. I know he had a tough time in Aden and nearly lost he sight and suffered ill-health for the rest of his life.

Dave
 
woof woof said:
Some kit is holding it's value at a point much below its original value. For eg the 50mm f1.x we picked up years ago for £10 might cost £60 now but that's probably peanuts to what it cost new and in the context of how much people got paid back then. Back then it probably cost the equivalent of what the latest mid to high end lens costs today and that's no real surprise as in its day it was amongst the best of the type.

Photograph gear like some other areas could also be subject to fads and kit that could at some point be next to worthless could at another be worth quite a bit. I just don't want to bother factoring that in or living with the limitations it might bring. Maybe it's like buying a car today for £100 and selling it in 5 years time for £100. You've done well, yes, but you've only done well because someone else bought it at a much higher price and age ate away at it until it hit a point at which it couldn't really reduce in price any more or might in fact go up in value due to inflation or increased interest.
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Yes, I was thinking more of how fairly recent secondhand prices have (or have not) changed, rather than the original cost, whatever that was. Oddly enough, I bought a Nikon FM and 50mm recently for about £150, and looked it up in an old copy of 'Which Camera' from 1983. It was listed as £150. Of course, £150 was worth a lot more then than it is now. On the other hand, this camera has kept its cash value when many other objects of that age would be landfill. Anyone want the CRT TV in my garage?

I'm sure none of us buy these things as investments, but it's interesting that some things do retain a significant value over time. I assume this won't apply to my digital gear, and that my D800 and my X100T will in a few years be as worthless as my D70. But there'll still be buyers for my (now) 85 year old Leica IIIa. Probably there are cameras like this that have been kept in the same family, and are now being used by the hipster great-grandchild of the original purchaser. Not a bad value proposition there. That isn't a good enough reason to use a film camera, of course. You use a film camera because you want to use film.
 
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Dave Canon said:
My first camera was given to me by my brother-in-law on my 18th birthday. He had previously bought the camera in Aden when serving in the army but was sent home wounded. I was very grateful because I knew the camera meant a lot to him. I actually took it to the IOM TT race the same year. The camera was a 35mm Yashika film camera with a very limited range of settings. I moved on to other cameras fairly soon but kept this old Yashika in a cupboard. About 30 years later, we met up and my brother-in-law was aware that I was well into photography and had bought some expensive cameras. He asked me if I still had the Yashika and would I be happy to give it back to him as it had a special value to him. I was happy to do so and even more grateful that he had been prepared to give me something of such great value (not monetary) all those years previously. I know he had a tough time in Aden and nearly lost he sight and suffered ill-health for the rest of his life.

Dave
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Nice little story that was. :)(y)
 
Retune said:
Yes, I was thinking more of how fairly recent secondhand prices have (or have not) changed, rather than the original cost, whatever that was. Oddly enough, I bought a Nikon FM and 50mm recently for about £150, and looked it up in an old copy of 'Which Camera' from 1983. It was listed as £150. Of course, £150 was worth a lot more then than it is now. On the other hand, this camera has kept its cash value when many other objects of that age would be landfill. Anyone want the CRT TV in my garage?

I'm sure none of us buy these things as investments, but it's interesting that some things do retain a significant value over time. I assume this won't apply to my digital gear, and that my D800 and my X100T will in a few years be as worthless as my D70. But there'll still be buyers for my (now) 85 year old Leica. Probably there are cameras like this that have been kept in the same family, and are now being used by the hipster great-grandchild of the original purchaser. Not a bad value proposition there. That isn't a good enough reason to use a film camera, of course. You use a film camera because you want to use film.
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You can see camera prices in the Argos archives catalogues of the 1970s etc, pretty fascinating it is.
 
woof woof said:
I used film cameras including compacts, RF's and an SLR for decades before I went digital and even then I used DSLR's for decades before going mirrorless.

I don't see any of these as rubbish but it is like comparing a typewriter to a PC. Yes, a typewriter has charms but the modern kit functions much better in todays world and allows the user much more scope and chance to produce a technically better result.

And a PS.
If all you've ever used is a typewriter you may cling to it and see pc's as intimidating and souless but if you can see what a pc could bring to your work and output you may be tempted to give one a go even if realising that a typewriter will always be worth it's scrap value whilst you may have to skip the pc one day.
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I actually use a mirrorless camera, the X100T, more than any other. It's nice to have an eye-level preview of your exposure settings while you adjust them live, and focus points that cover a wider area of the frame. But these are hardly earth-shattering changes to the way I work. I'm sure lots of people have a use for some of the much touted features of the more advanced mirrorless cameras like eye detection, but these aren't so useful for the kinds of things that I shoot. The most significant step up I've experienced with digital has been the switch from the D70 to the D300, because it gave me a sensor with decent exposure latitude that didn't easily blow the highlights, noise levels that didn't look like confetti at ISO 1000, and AF with reliable side sensors (the D70 AF was a step down from my F100). I imagine I'll get an interchangeable lens mirrorless at some point, but right now I'm in no hurry to replace the seven or eight F mount lenses that work perfectly well on my dSLRs. I don't think my photos would look any better.
 
Retune said:
Yes, I was thinking more of how fairly recent secondhand prices have (or have not) changed, rather than the original cost, whatever that was. Oddly enough, I bought a Nikon FM and 50mm recently for about £150, and looked it up in an old copy of 'Which Camera' from 1983. It was listed as £150. Of course, £150 was worth a lot more then than it is now. On the other hand, this camera has kept its cash value when many other objects of that age would be landfill. Anyone want the CRT TV in my garage?

I'm sure none of us buy these things as investments, but it's interesting that some things do retain a significant value over time. I assume this won't apply to my digital gear, and that my D800 and my X100T will in a few years be as worthless as my D70. But there'll still be buyers for my (now) 85 year old Leica. Probably there are cameras like this that have been kept in the same family, and are now being used by the hipster great-grandchild of the original purchaser. Not a bad value proposition there. That isn't a good enough reason to use a film camera, of course. You use a film camera because you want to use film.
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In 1983 £150 was probably take home pay for a month. In 1987 I bought a Pentax P30 for about £100 and paid it off over 12 months.
 
ancient_mariner said:
In 1983 £150 was probably take home pay for a month. In 1987 I bought a Pentax P30 for about £100 and paid it off over 12 months.
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The average take home was a bit higher, I think - gross salaries were around £500 a month in the early 80s. But still a significant chunk of cash at the time.
 
jonbeeza said:
Old Argos from 1973, with camera prices.
issuu.com

Argos No.01 1973-74

Argos catalogue from 1973-74 filled with lots of retro goodies. From Retromash.com
issuu.com issuu.com

Page 12 to 13
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£120 for a Spotmatic with lens, or £5 more for a Nikkormat? You could probably do better on ebay today, but not for mint boxed cameras like these. :)

I remember when everyone sold SLRs. Even Boots had a specialist SLR catalogue, and several in a glass display case in our local branch. Of course, those were the days when you could get a computer at WH Smith...
 
Retune said:
The average take home was a bit higher, I think - gross salaries were around £500 a month in the early 80s. But still a significant chunk of cash at the time.
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I left the UK in 1974 and spent years overseas, so I don't really know what prices and salaries were like in that period. Do you think SLRs were more or less similarly affordable, relative to disposable incomes, as DSLRs are today?
 
MartynK said:
I left the UK in 1974 and spent years overseas, so I don't really know what prices and salaries were like in that period. Do you think SLRs were more or less similarly affordable, relative to disposable incomes, as DSLRs are today?
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Here are some of the 35mm SLRs you could buy in 1983, with a few other cameras in brackets. Very basic entry level back then was mostly Eastern Bloc stuff, heavy and old-fashioned. The higher profile Japanese brands started taking an interest at around £80, with the still popular, purely manual K1000. The Leica prices, as today, look crazy in comparison.

[Cosmic Symbol - £13]
Zenit ET - £30
[Olympus Trip - £40]
Praktica MTL-3 - £49
Fujica STX-1 - £50
Zenit TTL - £52
Cosina CT1G - £70
Pentax K1000 - £80
[Canon AF 35M Sureshot - £80]
Yashica FX-3 - £84
Nikon EM - £90
Pentax MG - £90
Canon AV-1 - £94
[Olympus XA - £95]
Olympus OM-10 - £95
Minolta XG-1N - £98
Minolta SRT 100X - £99
Konica TC - £100
Praktica B200 - £100
Yashica FX-D - £100
Chinon CE4 - £110
Fujica AX5 - £110
Pentax MX - £111
[Yashica 124G - £114]
Mamiya ZM - £120
Olympus OM-1n - £120
Pentax ME Super - £120
[Polaroid SX-70 - £120]
[Minox 35 GT - £126]
Minolta XG-M - £130
Olympus OM-20 - £133
Ricoh KR10 - £136
Canon AE-1 Program - £145
Nikon FM - £150
Nikon FG - £170
Olympus OM-2n - £170
Minolta X-700 - £180
Contax 139 - £190
Nikon FE - £190
Canon A1 - £200
Minolta XD7 - £205
Nikon FM2 - £200
Pentax LX - £300
Canon F-1N - £360
Nikon F3 - £380
Contax RTS II - £395
Rollei SL2000F - £710
Leica R4 MOT - £750
[Leica M4-P - £816]
[Hasselblad 500 C/M - £925]

All with a standard lens, typically a 50mm f/1.7 - F/2.0 for 35mm SLRs.

How affordable were they? Here are some prices from 1982 for comparison:

How prices have changed in 25 years

Inflation has made cars and gadgets cheaper but houses, football tickets and beer are far more expensive
www.thisismoney.co.uk www.thisismoney.co.uk
(the quoted average salary of over £7000 is higher than the ~£6000 I've seen elsewhere).

So that K1000 cost about as much as a Walkman, or 4 pairs of Levi 501s, and more than a family would spend on food in a fortnight, but less than a quarter of the price of a washing machine or colour TV.
 
Retune said:
Here are some of the 35mm SLRs you could buy in 1983, with a few other cameras in brackets. Very basic entry level back then was mostly Eastern Bloc stuff, heavy and old-fashioned. The higher profile Japanese brands started taking an interest at around £80, with the still popular, purely manual K1000. The Leica prices, as today, look crazy in comparison.

[Cosmic Symbol - £13]
Zenit ET - £30
[Olympus Trip - £40]
Praktica MTL-3 - £49
Fujica STX-1 - £50
Zenit TTL - £52
Cosina CT1G - £70
Pentax K1000 - £80
[Canon AF 35M Sureshot - £80]
Yashica FX-3 - £84
Nikon EM - £90
Pentax MG - £90
Canon AV-1 - £94
[Olympus XA - £95]
Olympus OM-10 - £95
Minolta XG-1N - £98
Minolta SRT 100X - £99
Konica TC - £100
Praktica B200 - £100
Yashica FX-D - £100
Chinon CE4 - £110
Fujica AX5 - £110
Pentax MX - £111
[Yashica 124G - £114]
Mamiya ZM - £120
Olympus OM-1n - £120
Pentax ME Super - £120
[Polaroid SX-70 - £120]
[Minox 35 GT - £126]
Minolta XG-M - £130
Olympus OM-20 - £133
Ricoh KR10 - £136
Canon AE-1 Program - £145
Nikon FM - £150
Nikon FG - £170
Olympus OM-2n - £170
Minolta X-700 - £180
Contax 139 - £190
Nikon FE - £190
Canon A1 - £200
Minolta XD7 - £205
Nikon FM2 - £200
Pentax LX - £300
Canon F-1N - £360
Nikon F3 - £380
Contax RTS II - £395
Rollei SL2000F - £710
Leica R4 MOT - £750
[Leica M4-P - £816]
[Hasselblad 500 C/M - £925]

All with a standard lens, typically a 50mm f/1.7 - F/2.0 for 35mm SLRs.

How affordable were they? Here are some prices from 1982 for comparison:

How prices have changed in 25 years

Inflation has made cars and gadgets cheaper but houses, football tickets and beer are far more expensive
www.thisismoney.co.uk www.thisismoney.co.uk
(the quoted average salary of over £7000 is higher than the ~£6000 I've seen elsewhere).

So that K1000 cost about as much as a Walkman, or 4 pairs of Levi 501s, and more than a family would spend on food in a fortnight, but less than a quarter of the price of a washing machine or colour TV.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this, the prices and comparisons are interesting. I was living in Hong Kong in the mid-late 70s and most consumer goods, booze, smokes and other good things in life were a lot cheaper! We moved to SA in 1980 and found that cameras, lenses, hifi equipment and just about all other imports were expensive; but other things were a lot cheaper. Swings and roundabouts I suppose.
 
From my perspective it is getting a bit interesting.

If I ever needed another 5D mk3 that would be a bit of an issue. Most of the used ones are near enough wrecks by now. And it has to be firmware 1.2.3 or something that could get there easily. (P.S. I'm OK for now). Prices seem to be going back up from last years levels too.

5D IV is still priced quite high, and HDW new prices have increased substantially. That's a camera that is falling very far behind in video capabilities and there will be no more new EF lenses for us either.

I guess that is all very logic taking into the consideration the pricing of Canon R5 and even worse then new RF lenses. The only sensible upgrade pathway for many Canon users is in fact Sony.... I find that prospect very exciting. You may as well also consider medium format.

Probably it is good time to offload for those of you who like their mirrorless. I am not quite buying into it just yet.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
From my perspective it is getting a bit interesting.

If I ever needed another 5D mk3 that would be a bit of an issue. Most of the used ones are near enough wrecks by now. And it has to be firmware 1.2.3 or something that could get there easily. (P.S. I'm OK for now). Prices seem to be going back up from last years levels too.

5D IV is still priced quite high, and HDW new prices have increased substantially. That's a camera that is falling very far behind in video capabilities and there will be no more new EF lenses for us either.

I guess that is all very logic taking into the consideration the pricing of Canon R5 and even worse then new RF lenses. The only sensible upgrade pathway for many Canon users is in fact Sony.... I find that prospect very exciting. You may as well also consider medium format.

Probably it is good time to offload for those of you who like their mirrorless. I am not quite buying into it just yet.
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So now is not a good time to buy a used DSLR, as it is a sellers market?
 
Almost everything is sellers' market since the pandemic. The other thing i am interested in is guitars and in the past year the average rise in used guitars has gone up by anything from 20% to 50%. Some have doubled in the last 5 years. The whole used market is insane, people are paying close to new prices for a used guitar. Not to mention practically all the new guitars are sold, if you want one, most of them are pre-order. The factories are working OT to fulfill backorders. Guitar pedals too are going nuts, they are also suffering from the worldwide microprocessor shortage with some pedals having a 12-month delay, or simply cannot be ordered due to unknown date for certain parts.
 
jonbeeza said:
So now is not a good time to buy a used DSLR, as it is a sellers market?
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It probably depends on what you are looking for. At least it is nowhere near what is happening with graphics cards.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Almost everything is sellers' market since the pandemic. The other thing i am interested in is guitars and in the past year the average rise in used guitars has gone up by anything from 20% to 50%. Some have doubled in the last 5 years. The whole used market is insane, people are paying close to new prices for a used guitar. Not to mention practically all the new guitars are sold, if you want one, most of them are pre-order. The factories are working OT to fulfill backorders. Guitar pedals too are going nuts, they are also suffering from the worldwide microprocessor shortage with some pedals having a 12-month delay, or simply cannot be ordered due to unknown date for certain parts.
Click to expand...

I am interested in various other things not camera related, and this equipment has increased by an unnaturally large amount. Maybe now is the time to keep the wallet closed. :(
 
LongLensPhotography said:
It probably depends on what you are looking for. At least it is nowhere near what is happening with graphics cards.
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I tend to try and stay a good bit behind the trends, and buy last seasons clothing or the previous years model of new car.
I never queue for the launch of a new item, preferring to wait a few years for the price to level out. ;)
 
Over the years I had been keeping a price check on used DSLR's, I had been keeping a mental note over the years, and then started jotting things down.
But last year I sort off eased off a little, but this year when I checked on the pricing for used models, I was a bit surprised to see the prices have increased on used bodies, and not dropped.

Obviously good for used camera shops wanting to sell for a better mark up, but not too good for a canny buyer wanting a good deal.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Almost everything is sellers' market since the pandemic. The other thing i am interested in is guitars and in the past year the average rise in used guitars has gone up by anything from 20% to 50%. Some have doubled in the last 5 years. The whole used market is insane, people are paying close to new prices for a used guitar. Not to mention practically all the new guitars are sold, if you want one, most of them are pre-order. The factories are working OT to fulfill backorders. Guitar pedals too are going nuts, they are also suffering from the worldwide microprocessor shortage with some pedals having a 12-month delay, or simply cannot be ordered due to unknown date for certain parts.
Click to expand...

Wonder what my 70s & 80s Washburns are worth now, and my 80s MIJ strat? Maybe it's a good time to move gear on.....
 
ancient_mariner said:
Wonder what my 70s & 80s Washburns are worth now, and my 80s MIJ strat? Maybe it's a good time to move gear on.....
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No idea on the Washburns but 80's MIJ guitars are getting quite collectible in some circles. Some of the 80's Gibson copies nobody wanted just a couple of years ago, think Edwards, Greco and the like are commanding, IMO, silly prices for no other reason than supply and demand, not because suddenly they became great. They are good but their old prices reflected what they are worth IMO. Great value for money Gibson copies. That's what they set out to be and that's what they are.

I suspect once everything is back to normal their prices might go down a little but right now and probably for the next 6 months, is a seller's market.
 
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jonbeeza said:
I am interested in various other things not camera related, and this equipment has increased by an unnaturally large amount. Maybe now is the time to keep the wallet closed. :(
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I know what you mean. My funds for 'stuff' are limited and I have have other interests too, so I have to be selective. Right now, I have no need or particular desire for another camera, lens or any other photography gear, what I've got covers my requirements well enough. I'll readdress things if that changes. Two of the possibilities are Kruger, in SA, and Namibia for the Skeleton Coast, Kolmanskop and Pomona. Kruger is on the cards, but the Namibian trip would be expensive. We'll see.
 
MartynK said:
I know what you mean. My funds for 'stuff' are limited and I have have other interests too, so I have to be selective. Right now, I have no need or particular desire for another camera, lens or any other photography gear, what I've got covers my requirements well enough. I'll readdress things if that changes. Two of the possibilities are Kruger, in SA, and Namibia for the Skeleton Coast, Kolmanskop and Pomona. Kruger is on the cards, but the Namibian trip would be expensive. We'll see.
Click to expand...
Now all that really does sound interesting. My interest are a little more tame, probably even a little on the boring side. Lol
 
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