E.Scooters

Bristolian said:
Absolutely not. My large SUV (Land Rover Discovery 2; 4.0ltr V8; LPG) has a smaller footprint than my Mercedes estate car and costs less to run (p/m) using cleaner fuel.

The humble family car may have been tiny back in the 1970's but who drives a classic car these day? Even the current humble mini is almost as big as my SUV.

Talk about arrogance!
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Arrogance.

That state of mind that ignores the fact that today's efficiencies applied to yesterdays cars would be absolutely amazing!

300 mpg!

All it would need is that acceptance that driving a car is a privilege, and the number of cupholders, or airbags isn't really a badge of honour or desire, but a badge of shame.

We used to have vehicles that were more appropriate, but we allowed marketeers to persuade us that money making tanks* are appropriate for our everyday use.

*Land Rover Discovery 2; 4.0ltr V8?

(I may be wrong, but I'm not sure that LPG is a forecourt option...?)
 
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Pound Coin said:
All it would need is that acceptance that driving a car is a privilege, and the number of cupholders, or airbags isn't really a badge of honour or desire, but a badge of shame.
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Naw.

Cupholders are important and airbags even more so. :naughty:
 
Pound Coin said:
We used to have vehicles that were more appropriate, but we allowed marketeers to persuade us that money making tanks* are appropriate for our everyday use.
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Cars have got larger mainly due to the safety demands from European governments. Cars are much safer now than have ever been; most are able to cruise at motorway speeds, brake safely and quicker in a shortter space than they did even 30 years ago. Seatbelts, air bags and crumple zones all add towards a vehicle being much safer than it ever was. Engines are more efficient, the evolution of turbo & super chargers plus development of the hybrid means that cars are far more fuel efficient than they were even 15 years ago.

In short, you're talking b0ll0cks.
 
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Pound Coin said:
Arrant nonsense, unfortunately.

The humble family car was tiny. Just go to a classic car show. Or even have a look at the original Range Rover and see how small it is now.
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The original Range Rover has the same footprint as the current BMW/Mini.

You're right though that the humble family car - now a thing of the past - was tiny.

Show me a current iteration car of any make which can either drive into a white lined parking space or a domestic garage and have room to get a door open without hitting whatever object is alongside. Harrumph!
 
tikkathreebarrel said:
The original Range Rover has the same footprint as the current BMW/Mini.

You're right though that the humble family car - now a thing of the past - was tiny.

Show me a current iteration car of any make which can either drive into a white lined parking space or a domestic garage and have room to get a door open without hitting whatever object is alongside. Harrumph!
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If I park the Focus in the lock up garage I keep the Mk1 Escort in, I can just get out being careful not to open the door onto the wall. I'm not a big built person!
 
tikkathreebarrel said:
The original Range Rover has the same footprint as the current BMW/Mini.
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Being a Mini owner, and an ex Range Rover owner, that again is total rubbish, unless you're talking about the Countryman. In the original Range Rover there was a decent gap between the fairly wide seats. The current F56 (that's the 3 door) Mini has nowhere near the same space, I often knock my wifes arm when changing gear. Even my Clubman is a smaller footprint than the original Range Rover. (The Clubman has a similar footprint as a Golf, about 2 inches longer but 1 inch narrower).

I understand that you want to make a point, but get the facts right.
 
LeeRatters said:
If I park the Focus in the lock up garage I keep the Mk1 Escort in, I can just get out being careful not to open the door onto the wall. I'm not a big built person!
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When I got my Focus ST it wouldn't fit in the garage! Those flared arches were wider than I thought. I could get it in, but couldn't open the doors, :headbang: so I built a car port in front of the garage :D
 
Jelster said:
Cars have got larger mainly due to the safety demands from European governments. Cars are much safer now than have ever been; most are able to cruise at motorway speeds, brake safely and quicker in a shortter space than they did even 30 years ago. Seatbelts, air bags and crumple zones all add towards a vehicle being much safer than it ever was. Engines are more efficient, the evolution of turbo & super chargers plus development of the hybrid means that cars are far more fuel efficient than they were even 15 years ago.

In short, you're talking b0ll0cks.
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Nope, but thanks for your last line, very considered…

To answer what you have typed here - if it is just about safety, and small cars are safe, why are there big cars?
Plus, you appear to have taken a standpoint that only looks at the safety of car users - not other human beings, either in the immediate locality of these ‘safe’ cars, or on the planet.
 
Nod said:
Crumple zones and pedestrian protection measures.
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However these are in small cars too.

Also, big cars are worse for pedestrians, having higher points of contact.
 
Pound Coin said:
Nope, but thanks for your last line, very considered…

To answer what you have typed here - if it is just about safety, and small cars are safe, why are there big cars?
Plus, you appear to have taken a standpoint that only looks at the safety of car users - not other human beings, either in the immediate locality of these ‘safe’ cars, or on the planet.
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I've already answered some of that:

Jelster said:
Cars have got larger mainly due to the safety demands from European governments. Cars are much safer now than have ever been; most are able to cruise at motorway speeds, brake safely and quicker in a shortter space than they did even 30 years ago. Seatbelts, air bags and crumple zones all add towards a vehicle being much safer than it ever was. Engines are more efficient, the evolution of turbo & super chargers plus development of the hybrid means that cars are far more fuel efficient than they were even 15 years ago.
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As I said,
In short, you're talking b0ll0cks.
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Bumpers are no longer made from iron, plus regulation has made sure that they must be at a certain height. Cars are now designed to be safer in a collision, even with a pedestrian....
 
Jelster said:
I've already answered some of that:



As I said,


Bumpers are no longer made from iron, plus regulation has made sure that they must be at a certain height. Cars are now designed to be safer in a collision, even with a pedestrian....
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So, small cars are allowed by EU and other sets of rules (if they weren't, they wouldn't be on the roads)

So, why the huge cars?
 
Oh, and "cars are far more fuel efficient than they were even 15 years ago" maybe the case, but just think how much more fuel efficient they would be without the hugeness.
 
Pound Coin said:
So, small cars are allowed by EU and other sets of rules (if they weren't, they wouldn't be on the roads)

So, why the huge cars?
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Yes small cars are "allowed", but many are not practical. Until 7 years ago I had a 2 door Mini, but after a week away walking & photographing wildlife it was very evident that a small 2 door car was no longer viable for our requirements, so I bought a Clubman (Mini Estate). It is no bigger than a Golf, and has 6 doors. This also allows easy access to the rear seats for our aging relatives. The couple next door to us have a little baby Fiat thingy, but he also drives a large estate car for when they go and see relatives.

Small cars and families are just not practical. Plus, if I can get 5 people in my car comfortably, that means we only take one car when we may have taken two, that's got to be better for the planet, surely?
 
At the risk of spoiling a good (?) argument, I have a larger car (Mazda 6 estate) because I have a dog to get in it sometimes, and I want to sometimes carry large items (eg to the recycling centre). It has the further benefit of being fuel efficient (for a 2.2 litre diesel) of doing between 45 and 60mpg depending on the sort of journeys I'm doing. My old Fiesta (1,4 diesel) was much smaller and carried much less but did 35-52mpg. So unless I've missed someone's point (I may have), there is sometimes a dis-benefit in a smaller car.
If however the point being made was that big SUV's are bad per se, well it's really hard to generalise because sometimes they are necessary (torque for pulling things for example), but yes, in many cases they are vanity purchases - a lot of the latest ones have few redeeming features technically except for their sheer aesthetic desirability.
 
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Bloody unbelievable!
I just saw a young guy on an e-scooter, a private one,
he had a young kid I'd guess about 2 years old, stood between his legs!

If that wasn't dangerous enough, he crossed the road, right in front of me, he never looked in either direction.
Sometimes you just get a 6th sense about things, and I was already braking.
 
Cobra said:
Bloody unbelievable!
I just saw a young guy on an e-scooter, a private one,
he had a young kid I'd guess about 2 years old, stood between his legs!

If that wasn't dangerous enough, he crossed the road, right in front of me, he never looked in either direction.
Sometimes you just get a 6th sense about things, and I was already braking.
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Darwin award candidate?
 
A common sight around here on both escooters and mobility scooters, eg one very fat woman who appears otherwise able, often seen charging around on her mobility scooter at a good lick, with a couple of infant school age kids ticked under her legs and on her lap - how they don't come flying off on the corners as she takes them at speed I don't know.
 
Police and Crime Commissioner Matthew Barber ( Thames Valley)is alerting guardians to the fact private e-scooters cannot legally be driven in public places.

“Just like cars, the driver of an e-scooter needs to have a licence, insurance and tax but it is not currently possible to get insurance for privately owned e-scooters, which means it is against the law to use them on the road or in public spaces.
“I expect Thames Valley Police to be stepping up enforcement on privately owned e-scooters. If you're using a private e-scooter you risk the vehicle being seized under S.165 Road Traffic Act 1988 for no insurance. You could also be fined up to £300 and be given six penalty points on your licence. For those caught using them under the age of 18, these penalties will be passed on to parents.

Yeah right, they zip about all over MK, and I've not heard of a single prosecution, as yet.

 
Is it? They are motorised vehicles - small motorbikes. Not sure how parents can have their licenses "endorsed" though.
 
Nod said:
Is it?
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I'm all for someone getting fined over it, but someone could end up getting getting additional points, through no fault of their own.
And getting banned from driving if they had already collected a few.
 
That was my point with the "endorsement" bit.
 
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