E.Scooters

I almost got hit yesterday by two youths on an escooter yesterday whilst walking on a pavement next to a busy main road. The youth at the front was wearing a helmet and swore at me because I didn’t notice them soon enough.

I recall as a kid in the 1960s being told off for riding on the pavement by a policeman and as a non cyclist now unsure what the law is now. Is it legal now to ride on the pavement?
 
Tulipone said:
I recall as a kid in the 1960s being told off for riding on the pavement by a policeman and as a non cyclist now unsure what the law is now. Is it legal now to ride on the pavement?
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No, and that's the whole issue around these things. As it's a "powered" vehicle on the road, it needs insurance of some kind, and is not allowed on the pavement. Personally owned e-scooters are illegal as they can't be insured, the hire ones must have some form of insurance on them I guess. Either way, they ain't allowed on the footpath....
 
Jelster said:
Either way, they ain't allowed on the footpath....
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The whole byke / scooter thing is a perfect example of the muddled mentality that characterises political thinking.

A small group decides they know best. They raise a great fuss in the various media. Politicians see the fuss and have a "ker-ching moment", thinking "there's votes here". Next thing you know, a stable system for road use is overturned and pedestrians find that their pavement is now "shared space" and motorists find themselves faced with a new hazard of illegal vehicles on the road around them.
:tumbleweed:
 
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I walk at least 5 miles a day (most days) for exercise. About half of this in on a shared cycle path.footpath. Every day I see Ebikes, these e scooters and e skateboards (nearly the size of a surfboard and electric motorbikes driving down the cyclepath. Now in places its only a metre wide so with the speed of these things it's getting a bit risky.
It's now getting silly with a 20mph speed limit and bikes on the path next to the road going a lot faster than the traffic.
 
Cagey75 said:
Maybe, I am having trouble getting to sleep! :ROFLMAO:

I'm a cyclist myself, have been for almost 40 years [since I learned to ride a bike pretty much, 47 atm] - Only accidents I've ever been involved in were all by my lonesome. I've had some embarrassing falls over the years [like the time I hung my jacket over the handlebars and the sleeve got caught in the front spokes ... :eek: ] never once involving anyone else, not a pedestrian, car, train ... I stick to the rules of the road, mind my own, never imagine I have any God given right to stray from the rules. I see these high powered scooters and E-bikes now whizzing past me at frantic pace, and yes, I have been tempted - they're faster than me, they're not spending any energy [God forbid they'd get some excercise while zipping around!] and tbh, some of them look damn cool! But I'd like to think if I ever did invest in such a contraption, I'd keep my head, and rule following record.
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same heer cyclist of many years, used to be a road race bike rider until 20 years ago was involved in a very bad accident , asian taxidriver pulled across my path to turn into a pub car park , i hit the front wing at a good lick, probably close to 25mph it was a nice clear road , i had a yellow tour de france top and bright yellow helmet , the helmet certainly saved my life as i flew over the bonnet head first and bounced up the road. my 10pence don't even get your bike/escooter or whatever out without putting a helmet on you never know whats out there.

noadays its all mountain bike and canal paths and trails but i don't ride much road anymore it is to dangerous
 
Bridges said:
And I think there we have the answer as to why so many scooter and bike riders choose to ride on pavements/footpaths.
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unfortunately I have to agree the roads in the UK are appalling to other road users, especially cyclists and pedestrians.
The British are an arrogant bunch when it comes to there cars and of course now everyone has an SUV which according to data.

Our European friends have a much more tollerant attitude.

"SUVs are 16% more likely to cause incapacitating injuries and 36% more likely to kill pedestrians than smaller cars.
 
Cagey75 said:
Maybe, I am having trouble getting to sleep! :ROFLMAO:

I'm a cyclist myself, have been for almost 40 years [since I learned to ride a bike pretty much, 47 atm] - Only accidents I've ever been involved in were all by my lonesome. I've had some embarrassing falls over the years [like the time I hung my jacket over the handlebars and the sleeve got caught in the front spokes ... :eek: ] never once involving anyone else, not a pedestrian, car, train ... I stick to the rules of the road, mind my own, never imagine I have any God given right to stray from the rules. I see these high powered scooters and E-bikes now whizzing past me at frantic pace, and yes, I have been tempted - they're faster than me, they're not spending any energy [God forbid they'd get some excercise while zipping around!] and tbh, some of them look damn cool! But I'd like to think if I ever did invest in such a contraption, I'd keep my head, and rule following record.
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Cycling 40 years? I wonder if you did the cycling proficency courses that most schools and police ran back then. Most children dont seem to have the courses these days (although I believe they are still about) and I suspect thats part of the issue. Many youger people simply dont understand the rules of the road. Or I suspect care.
 
swanseamale47 said:
Cycling 40 years? I wonder if you did the cycling proficency courses that most schools and police ran back then. Most children dont seem to have the courses these days (although I believe they are still about) and I suspect thats part of the issue. Many youger people simply dont understand the rules of the road. Or I suspect care.
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Yes, 40 year, counting from when I could ride a bike [7] I've always had one, cycled to school for years then to work and still do so [well, until 3 weeks ago when my bike got stolen] We did the safe cross code and basics of cycling rules in school, all of us were cycling back then. It's not hard to follow the rules, stick to your lane, signal where neccesary, don't be a dick, use cycle lanes, don't jump lights etc. As I said, never had anything close to a collision with anyone else, and afaik have never p*ssed anyone off enough for them to shout at me for wreckless cycling.
 
swanseamale47 said:
Cycling 40 years? I wonder if you did the cycling proficency courses that most schools and police ran back then. Most children dont seem to have the courses these days (although I believe they are still about) and I suspect thats part of the issue. Many youger people simply dont understand the rules of the road. Or I suspect care.
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Despite being taught the Highway Code in order to pass a driving test, a very large number of motorists don't drive like they know the code.

Overall, if we are to improve what happens on our roads (and pavements) we need people to understand how they should behave in a shared environment with other people.
 
Cagey75 said:
Yes, 40 year, counting from when I could ride a bike [7] I've always had one, cycled to school for years then to work and still do so [well, until 3 weeks ago when my bike got stolen] We did the safe cross code and basics of cycling rules in school, all of us were cycling back then. It's not hard to follow the rules, stick to your lane, signal where neccesary, don't be a dick, use cycle lanes, don't jump lights etc. As I said, never had anything close to a collision with anyone else, and afaik have never p*ssed anyone off enough for them to shout at me for wreckless cycling.
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40 years and not had any near misses from vehicles passing you or vehicles coming out of junctions?
 
nog said:
40 years and not had any near misses from vehicles passing you or vehicles coming out of junctions?
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Of course I have, I said 'I' never p***ed anyone else off, didn't say others haven't p***ed me off (y)
 
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nog said:
I was referring to

"As I said, never had anything close to a collision with anyone else" :thinking:
.
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As in being 'my' fault, not sure what's confusing here. I stick to the rules, if others don't, that is not on me is it?
 
Hmmm scenario driving in home town at around 20mph new legal limit ,can’t go much faster in my town anyway , teen on e.scooter riding in road in front of me coming towards me . I indicate to turn right he whizzes by on my near side then for some reason goes up on the pavement on my r.h side and cuts across the turning I’m driving into .no idea why sixth sense made me slam on before I hit him . But I suspect it was a cash for crash attempt . Getting stupid out there these days
 
the black fox said:
Hmmm scenario driving in home town at around 20mph new legal limit ,can’t go much faster in my town anyway , teen on e.scooter riding in road in front of me coming towards me . I indicate to turn right he whizzes by on my near side then for some reason goes up on the pavement on my r.h side and cuts across the turning I’m driving into .no idea why sixth sense made me slam on before I hit him . But I suspect it was a cash for crash attempt . Getting stupid out there these days
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We need to campaign for funding the police.
 
There has been a dead one laying on the verge locally for a few days now, I thought they sent a signal back to base and they were collected and charged.
Seems not.

Oh and I've just discovered that its not all young kids that ride them irresponsibly.
On the way home from shopping 2 "grey beards" were coming the other way on private scooters weaving all over the road,
I guess for fun, or they were scrubbing their tyres for a better grip, getting ready for the MK 500.
But that's not normally until Friday nights.
When the kiddies get out their massive spoilers and bean can exhausts, there is usually a Corsa under there somewhere, of course.
 
These nip around the pavements and pedestrian area in Cambridge, most of them ridden by helmeted and masked youths going at speed. If you were to be hit by one of these you’d be properly hit.
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Tulipone said:
If you were to be hit by one of these you’d be properly
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But still nothing near the impact of a car travelling at the same speed. Those things are restricted to 15.5mph, so whilst they could still do lot of damage ,they're nowhere near as dangerous as any car.

Of course; if there were a lot less cars on the roads, there'd be a lot more space for scooters etc, and less on pedestrian areas, so a lot safer for everyone. The real problem is cars. Many people, our wonderful government included, just don't want to accept or admit this.
 
A guy has just come through on a motorised mower, he moved the scooter on to the path, while he cut the verge.
The path is half as wide as the verge, and is now mostly blocked by the scooter :rolleyes:
 
Bridges said:
But still nothing near the impact of a car travelling at the same speed. Those things are restricted to 15.5mph, so whilst they could still do lot of damage ,they're nowhere near as dangerous as any car.

Of course; if there were a lot less cars on the roads, there'd be a lot more space for scooters etc, and less on pedestrian areas, so a lot safer for everyone. The real problem is cars. Many people, our wonderful government included, just don't want to accept or admit this.
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I respectfully disagree. You are walking along in a mainly pedestrian area and get hit by this you’ll be hurt. I have no way of knowing but it would not surprise me to learn that there is no insurance and therefore if you were to be hit, the rider would disappear into the far distance. At least some car drivers will be insured and in a tested safe vehicle. Again, I have no knowledge, but it these gig economy jobs are not always filled with law abiding, tax paying citizens.

I think that these and escooters are great and the problem isn’t that there are too many cars. Indeed in the centre of Cambridge City centre there are very few cars. The problem is that there is no infrastructure for these to operate safely, no policing to act as a deterrent and a lack of respect for others.
 
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Tulipone said:
I respectfully disagree. You are walking along in a mainly pedestrian area and get hit by this you’ll be hurt.
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Sure. But a car would hurt you more. It's just simple physics.

Tulipone said:
I think that these and escooters are great and the problem isn’t that there are too many cars.
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There really are too many cars in the UK as a whole, particularly in towns and cities. This is a globally recognised problem. Added to that; most towns and city cetnres weren't orignally formed arond the idea of motor vehicle transport, so infrastucture has been shoehorned in to places it shouldn't be. I know Cambridge and there are still way too many cars even in the centre. Cambridge town centre wasn't designed for motor vehicles.

Tulipone said:
I have no way of knowing but it would not surprise me to learn that there is no insurance and therefore if you were to be hit, the rider would disappear into the far distance
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Right. But would it also not surprise you to learn that they're not required to have insurance? And there are plenty of uninsured drivers around anyway? Insurance doesn't stop a scooter or car from hitting you.

Tulipone said:
The problem is that there is no infrastructure for these to operate safely
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There is, we just need to remove cars and for people to accept sharing spaces. It works across the Netherlands very well.

Tulipone said:
no policing to act as a deterrent and a lack of respect for others.
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These are wider societal issues though, nothing to do with the mode of transport. Try to get on a train to London in the morning rush hour from Cambridge. Not a great deal of respect going on their either.
 
Okay, we will disagree with each other and that is fine.

The area around Grand Arcade and the market square do not usually have cars other than traders vehicles and then generally just to set up and clear down and that is the area that there are many of these delivery electric mopeds. The proliferation of food delivery folk is rife. I would suggest it would be by far easier to get hit by a moped or scooter in that area than a car.

Pretty difficult to go to town by train right now through strikes.
 
Tulipone said:
Okay, we will disagree with each other and that is fine.
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Well, ok, but just be aware that you're disagreeing with a lot of studies and research there. And simple common sense And I am of course talking about places other than Cambridge; the pedestrianised area there is very tiny compared to the rest of the city area. In London, there really are way too many cars. Everywhere. The average car journey in London is just 6.9 miles as of 2019. Meaning that many journeys are significantly less than that. So, not really much genuine need for such journeys, especially given that London does have relatively excellent public transport options. Indeed, the average car journey in the whole of the UK, was just 7.9 miles as of 2020. Indicating that an awful lot of car journeys could be taken via other means of transport. That's pretty damning.

Tulipone said:
I would suggest it would be by far easier to get hit by a moped or scooter in that area than a car.
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That's as maybe, but it's one tiny isolated area, not representative of the rest of the UK. On average you are far more likely to be KoSI'ed in the UK in a collision involving motor vehicles. The problem still remains; too many cars.
 
Tulipone said:
...and the problem isn’t that there are too many cars.
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Agreed.

There are, however, too many people who want to ban cars. I have no idea why they would, unless it's just some atavistic desire to control other people. :thinking:
 
I'm not disputing the fact that if you get hit by a truck / jumbo jet or car it'll likely do more damage than an escooter driven stupidly in a defined pedestrian area in Cambridge. I'll also agree that physics is physics and mass plus motion can cause problems.

I am loathe to widen this further but the fact is that most countries have high speed trains between major cities, we do not. If you get hit by a train that'd also sting more than an escooter but also less likely in the centre of Cambridge than a scooter. Perhaps if HS2 was actually put in 20 years ago it would have been more affordable, there could be less cars on the road leaving more space in a pedestrian area for an escooter with someone’s hamburger being delivered by an uninsured, non tax paying person. Who knows.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
There are, however, too many people who want to ban cars. I have no idea why they would, unless it's just some atavistic desire to control other people. :thinking:
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This is absolute nonsense. We all have to reduce our emissions and consumption, because in case you hadn't noticed, there is a huge global climate change issue happening right now. Drastically reducing motor vehicle use (amongst many other things) is literally vital in ensuring the survival of Humanity. Most car journeys are happening because of pure selfishness and lack of greater social and ecological awareness. Talking about someone wanting to 'control' you by banning cars is utter nonsense. You're already being controlled. As long as you keep buying petrol and keeping someone else rich, you'll continue along that path.

Tulipone said:
I am loathe to widen this further but the fact is that most counties have high speed trains between major cities, we do not. If you get hit by a train that'd also sting more than an escooter but also less likely in the centre of Cambridge than a scooter. Perhaps if HS2 was actually put in 20 years ago it would have been more affordable, there could be less cars on the road leaving more space in a pedestrian area for an escooter with someone’s hamburger being delivered by an uninsured, non tax paying person. Who knows.
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If there had been as much invested in public transport infrastructure over say the last 50 years, as has been on building and maintaining more roads, then there would be far less need for cars. But successive governments have chosen policies that suit the desires of the wealthy, and not society as a whole.
 
Bridges said:
This is absolute nonsense. We all have to reduce our emissions and consumption, because in case you hadn't noticed, there is a huge global climate change issue happening right now. Drastically reducing motor vehicle use (amongst many other things) is literally vital in ensuring the survival of Humanity. Most car journeys are happening because of pure selfishness and lack of greater social and ecological awareness. Talking about someone wanting to 'control' you by banning cars is utter nonsense. You're already being controlled. As long as you keep buying petrol and keeping someone else rich, you'll continue along that path.


If there had been as much invested in public transport infrastructure over say the last 50 years, as has been on building and maintaining more roads, then there would be far less need for cars. But successive governments have chosen policies that suit the desires of the wealthy, and not society as a whole.
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My my, Mr perfect is at it again.....

Where I live we have a bus at around 09.15 in the morning, and another at about 4PM. The nearest town is 7 miles, via country lanes with no footpaths. There are lots of small Victorian cottages with no front garden/drive and no rear access, so most of these people park their cars in the village car park which is free. So, without access to charge their EV's, what are the 5,000 or so people in our village supposed to do?

There are hundreds of villages like this up & down the country, we have a failing public transport system and no infrastructure for EV's. What would you do?
 
Jelster said:
My my, Mr perfect is at it again.....

Where I live we have a bus at around 09.15 in the morning, and another at about 4PM. The nearest town is 7 miles, via country lanes with no footpaths. There are lots of small Victorian cottages with no front garden/drive and no rear access, so most of these people park their cars in the village car park which is free. So, without access to charge their EV's, what are the 5,000 or so people in our village supposed to do?

There are hundreds of villages like this up & down the country, we have a failing public transport system and no infrastructure for EV's. What would you do?
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Well, apart from the first unnecessary paragraph, you make interesting points.

What to do? The problem with society is that it is like it is because of the car. There weren't 5,000 people with cars when the village was built, what there is there now is largely because of the car.

So - sustainable replacements for the ICE car, and a proper public transport service. Someone will have to pay for the public transport, and a bit like how we have recently discovered that home energy is expensive, we are probably going to have to learn that transport is expensive. The figures on average journey distances by car are really frightening. In the village you mention the average distance is probably longer - but there are millions of journeys generally being done that could be done on foot, by bike, by scooter, by public transport. (replacing the ICE car with the EV car isn't the answer, unfortunately.)
 
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Jelster said:
My my, Mr perfect is at it again.....
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Why is it that some people have to resort to ad hominems in place of any coherent argument?
Jelster said:
Where I live we have a bus at around 09.15 in the morning, and another at about 4PM. The nearest town is 7 miles, via country lanes with no footpaths. There are lots of small Victorian cottages with no front garden/drive and no rear access, so most of these people park their cars in the village car park which is free. So, without access to charge their EV's, what are the 5,000 or so people in our village supposed to do?
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Campaign for a more frequent bus service? Work nearer home? 7 miles is still easily reachable by bicycle, for most able bodied folk. Would undoubtedly improve the health of individuals significantly (Britain is the most obese nation in Europe), thus reducing the burden on the NHS. Win-win.

But using individual examples doesn't tell the whole picture. 84% of the UK poulation live in urban areas. So excuses for private vehicle use become even less valid.

Pound Coin said:
The problem with society is that it is like it is because of the car. There weren't 5,000 people with cars when the village was built, what there is there now is largely because of the car.
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Precisely.
 
Jelster said:
There are hundreds of villages like this up & down the country, we have a failing public transport system and no infrastructure for EV's. What would you do?
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As things stand, nothing.

In my opinion, the private car has been an important part of the rising wealth of the average citizen, allowing access to more opportunities for both work and leisure. The problems with car use are mostly the fault of local government running scared of pressure groups, who don't want "their" little bit of Britain "spoilt" by road widening and increased space for car parking.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
In my opinion, the private car has been an important part of the rising wealth of the average citizen, allowing access to more opportunities for both work and leisure. The problems with car use are mostly the fault of local government running scared of pressure groups, who don't want "their" little bit of Britain "spoilt" by road widening and increased space for car parking.
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So; we have a rapidly declining economy, people are now on average worse off than they were previously, in real terms and the cost of living is continuing to spiral out of control. Yet there is greater car ownership than ever before. Can you explain that?

The problem with opinion, is that unless you base it on fact, it's meaningless.
 
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AndrewFlannigan said:
As things stand, nothing.

In my opinion, the private car has been an important part of the rising wealth of the average citizen, allowing access to more opportunities for both work and leisure. The problems with car use are mostly the fault of local government running scared of pressure groups, who don't want "their" little bit of Britain "spoilt" by road widening and increased space for car parking.
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The new housing estates around my area seem to still ignore the fact that people like cars but don't allow space - a problem that is going to carry forward forever. Even if personal cars become defunct in the future if the space is there for them it could be reused. No space is no flexibility. My house in a 1980s development allowed for cars - but had no idea that the kids would grow up and they'd want cars along with mum and dad so clogging the whole area. If kids are unable to afford theta own house then at some point the grandkids will also need space for their cars alongside the others.

The Dutch bought into cycling decades ago and had a plan and policy. We seem to be unable to consider anything after 1950.
 
Tulipone said:
The Dutch bought into cycling decades ago and had a plan and policy.
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This is true.

Remember, though, that Holland has a lot of flat land in the north and this, I'm told, is where bicycle use is most prevalent. In the south of the country, I understand the bicycle is not so widely used.
 
Tulipone said:
The Dutch bought into cycling decades ago and had a plan and policy. We seem to be unable to consider anything after 1950.
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Yes. There was a systematic failure to consider all potential modes of transport, by successive governments. Of course, British economic interests in the Middle East did play a part in policy making too. But then we had catastrophes such as the Beeching reports, which led to the destruction of large and important parts of our rail infrastructure, now very much impossible to replace in many areas. Canals were left to decline as a viable option for transporting goods. And urban cycling infrastructure simply wasn't even considered. My history is hazy, but I think Beeching and/or others in government at the time had vested interests in road building companies too. Follow the money.
 
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