Fill flash advice.

The goblin

The goblin

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Hi, I was after some tips/ advice with fill in flash please. I've never had much success with a flash attached so have opted to bravely avoid it! However, the more I use my camera the more I've started to dabble in this area.
It took me a while to venture into the CF's on my 7D and when I did I discovered the hi sync speed setting!

Now I'm at the stage of how much flash to use! I realise this is dependent on lighting conditions at the time but was wondering how you all approach this? My husband has asked me to take some photos of his boss this afternoon, it's his last flight on his squadron (he's in the RAF) so will be outside with a puma helicopter in the background. The potential for horrible shadows is there and I'd like to avoid that! I have a stofen and will be a few meters away from my subject (once the firemen have finished hosing him down)

Here is an example of one of my first attempts at fill flash with hi sync speed set. This was for my 52's 'moody' shot:



The crit I got at the time was too much flash.

I have some more from a few weeks ago in blazing sunshine, I'll try and upload those later this morning.

Any advice greatly appreciated.
 
The first thing to point out is that the stofen will not help outdoors.

The stofen turns the flash into effectively lightbulb (I.e emitting light from all sides). This works indoors with ceilings and walls nearby as it throws light around the room and softens the impact on the subject.

I will watch the comments on this thread with interest as I just keep tweaking background exposure with flash until I'm happy but there must be a quicker path.

One thing to remember is to use manual mode and remember that shutter speed effects ambient light and aperture effects flash strength.
 
dan_yorkshire said:
The first thing to point out is that the stofen will not help outdoors.

The stofen turns the flash into effectively lightbulb (I.e emitting light from all sides). This works indoors with ceilings and walls nearby as it throws light around the room and softens the impact on the subject.
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This is the kind of thing I need to know! Thank you.

dan_yorkshire said:
One thing to remember is to use manual mode and remember that shutter speed effects ambient light and aperture effects flash strength.
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I am planning to shoot in av at f5.6-8 (ISO weather dependent) to get the puma in focus too.
 
The goblin said:
This is the kind of thing I need to know! Thank you.

I am planning to shoot in av at f5.6-8 (ISO weather dependent) to get the puma in focus too.
Click to expand...

Firstly then in manual mode. Set the aperture to f8 and then vary the shutter speed until you have the lighting you desire in the background. Do this without the flash or male subject. Then with the subject and adjust the flash power (put the flash into manual too) until you have the correct lighting on the subject. Leave ISO at its lowest setting unless there is really bad light, even then introduce a tripod with a slower shutter speed and ask the subject to remain very still.
 
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I'll not be able to use a tripod as this will be on the aircraft parking spots so won't be there long. I've never used my flash in manual, I think I'm off to have a play! Thankfully I have until 3pm this afternoon to work on it!

Dam I wish I had more time to study this stuff properly:bonk:
 
Dan describes manual working well, but you don't have to use manual. Av is fine, just a different way of working - you should still end up with the same result.

The advantage of shooting on auto is if you don't have much time to set up, it will get you very close, or even perfect, straight off the bat. And if things like the distance is changing shot to shot, auto will track that. Hard to do that in manual quickly if you're not familiar with it.

On Av and E-TTL on the gun, the camera will attempt to set the background exposure correctly, then balance the flash to it. If you don't like the result, then you can make the background lighter/darker with +/- compensation on the camera as normal - it will change the shutter speed. If the flash is wrong, adjust that with +/- compensation on the gun - it will adjust the power output. With a 7D and your 430EX2, you can adjust the gun either in the menus, or on the back of the gun. I prefer the latter, it's just easier I find, but if you do it on the gun it will override the camera.

Have HSS switched on. On a sunny day it's quite likely the shutter speed will need to rise above the x-sync ceiling (1/250sec on a 7D) and it will switch itself in and out of HSS automatically as and when necessary. Be aware that the gun uses a lot more power in HSS mode so it might run out of puff unless you're quite close. In which case, either move closer, or raise the f/number or drop the ISO to force the shutter speed back down below 1/250sec again.

You might struggle to get the chopper sharp as well, without a high f/number like f/11 or f/16. Personally I wouldn't worry about it :)
 
HoppyUK said:
Dan describes manual working well, but you don't have to use manual. Av is fine, just a different way of working - you should still end up with the same result.

The advantage of shooting on auto is if you don't have much time to set up, it will get you very close, or even perfect, straight off the bat. And if things like the distance is changing shot to shot, auto will track that. Hard to do that in manual quickly if you're not familiar with it.

On Av and E-TTL on the gun, the camera will attempt to set the background exposure correctly, then balance the flash to it. If you don't like the result, then you can make the background lighter/darker with +/- compensation on the camera as normal - it will change the shutter speed. If the flash is wrong, adjust that with +/- compensation on the gun - it will adjust the power output. With a 7D and your 430EX2, you can adjust the gun either in the menus, or on the back of the gun. I prefer the latter, it's just easier I find, but if you do it on the gun it will override the camera.

Have HSS switched on. On a sunny day it's quite likely the shutter speed will need to rise above the x-sync ceiling (1/250sec on a 7D) and it will switch itself in and out of HSS automatically as and when necessary. Be aware that the gun uses a lot more power in HSS mode so it might run out of puff unless you're quite close. In which case, either move closer, or raise the f/number or drop the ISO to force the shutter speed back down below 1/250sec again.

You might struggle to get the chopper sharp as well, without a high f/number like f/11 or f/16. Personally I wouldn't worry about it :)
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Nice explenation Richard. I shoot Nikon and use the TTL-BL mode but wasn't sure on the Canon working for fill but you have mentioned it above. At the moment I shoot portraits and have enough time to use manual (it helps me learn breaking it down) but the more I get involved with perhaps weddings or moving targets etc then I will adopt the method you've mentioned above.

On a similar subject Richard. With ocf for sole lighting outdoors using cheap triggers.... i.e fast enough shutter speed to kill ambient and subject flash lit only with flash would you recommend using variable ND filters to bring the ambinet down enough to eliminate with a maximum 1/200 ss on bright days?

Sorry to hijack the thread.
 
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Thank you Richard for the detailed reply, I'm clearly learning as I go as I understood most of what you said!

HoppyUK said:
If you don't like the result, then you can make the background lighter/darker with +/- compensation on the camera as normal - it will change the shutter speed. If the flash is wrong, adjust that with +/- compensation on the gun - it will adjust the power output. With a 7D and your 430EX2, you can adjust the gun either in the menus, or on the back of the gun.
Click to expand...
I understand about flash exposure compensation. Just checking my understanding, if I adjust it in camera it will change the shutter speed, will that be true also for adjusting it via the flash gun?


dan_yorkshire said:
On a similar subject Richard. With ocf for sole lighting outdoors using cheap triggers.... i.e fast enough shutter speed to kill ambient and subject flash lit only with flash would you recommend using variable ND filters to bring the ambinet down enough to eliminate with a maximum 1/200 ss on bright days?

Sorry to hijack the thread.
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No please, hijack away! Having just bought some yongnuo triggers I'm happy to learn!
 
dan_yorkshire said:
Nice explenation Richard. I shoot Nikon and use the TTL-BL mode but wasn't sure on the Canon working for fill but you have mentioned it above. At the moment I shoot portraits and have enough time to use manual (it helps me learn breaking it down) but the more I get involved with perhaps weddings or moving targets etc then I will adopt the method you've mentioned above.

On a similar subject Richard. With ocf for sole lighting outdoors using cheap triggers.... i.e fast enough shutter speed to kill ambient and subject flash lit only with flash would you recommend using variable ND filters to bring the ambinet down enough to eliminate with a maximum 1/200 ss on bright days?

Sorry to hijack the thread.
Click to expand...

I'm not a big fan of vari-NDs, certainly not for very long exposure techniques. You get that dark cross appearing at high densities when using a wide-angle. Personally, I would use a 2-stops or 3-stops regular ND, but a vari-ND might be okay at lower densities with a longer lens.

You should usually be able to keep the shutter speed under the x-sync ceiling by dropping ISO and/or raising the f/number. It's mostly only when shooting with shallow DoF that you get issues.

Also, a fast trigger will help, allowing you to run right up to max x-sync shutter speed. Sometimes that last little bit of shutter speed is all you need. Pocket Wizard Mini/Flex is brilliant at that, even allowing you to go just above the normal limit, but otherwise look at Hahnel Combis (£50 a set) or the very nice Phottix Strato II (£100) that also retain TTL pass-though on-camera.
 
The goblin said:
Thank you Richard for the detailed reply, I'm clearly learning as I go as I understood most of what you said!


I understand about flash exposure compensation. Just checking my understanding, if I adjust it in camera it will change the shutter speed, will that be true also for adjusting it via the flash gun?


No please, hijack away! Having just bought some yongnuo triggers I'm happy to learn!
Click to expand...

With flash outdoors, you have two exposures - flash and ambient - and two ways of balancing them. Av is the best way to manage this (or manual if you prefer) and +/- comp on the rear camera wheel adjusts shutter speed, as per normal.

You can also adjust flash exposure compensation in-camera (changes flash power) but you have to go into the menus. This is great when the remote gun is some distance away, but if it's on-camera or close to hand, I find it easier to adjust flash exposure comp directly on the back of the gun. But same difference.

You're running out of time for your 3pm deadline but if you have a mo to try it, put camera on a tripod and fire off a shot of something with a foregound subject and a more distant background. Then apply the two compensation mthods and see how the flash/ambient exposure ratios change. It's really easy and fast once you've got the hang of it.

Another tip is to switch the flash metering to centre-weighted (in menus). Evaluative mode is 'smart' and great for normal ambient light shooting, but can get a bit too clever for its own good with flash ;)
 
The goblin said:
All tips taken on board, I've had a quick play. Now just sat waiting for them to land.
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Good luck and don't forget to post the results
 
Thanks for the video Matt, I'll watch it when my Internet is going a tad quicker and allows me too!

I got some shots, only deleted one and that was when someone walked in front of me:bonk: I got my first ever group shot too :D

I've got to get the midgets in bed then I'll sort some out and get them posted.
 
The mice driving my Internet are on strike and I've only managed to upload a handful of photos! Here are two:


It was so difficult to get the composition right as everyone was very close. Just to the left of the guy pouring the champagne stood half a dozen men wielding water canons and brightly coloured power washes to give him a traditional RAF send off! To the right they all had bright red buckets :bonk:

Here's my first group shot, I took about 10 here, this was the best one:



Thanks for the tips, any C&C welcome to improve on these.
 
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