Fit For Purpose question

KIPAX

KIPAX

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KIPAX Lancashire UK
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My MKIII has packed in and its the 4th different problem rendering it useless in 8mths since bought new.. blue spot latest model.

Its cost me over 70 quid sending it back to canon and with a match a day I really need a camera I can depend on or at least have confidence in.

Sat here now wiht a camera that just shows err99 even when you turn it off...

So fit for purpose.. Do I contact the shop I bought it from (proper shop not web) or canon themselves? Anyone know of anyone who has been through this with camera gear?

ta:)
 
Tony,

Your contract is with the vendor but it may work better if you contact your CPS rep in the first instance.

The "Fit for use legislation" puts the onus on you after 6 months has passed. In short, for the first 6 months, it's up to the vendor to prove that it is fit for use. After 6 months, it's up to you to prove that it isn't.

Bob
 
You have to contact the store and not Canon as your contract of sale is with the store.

You may then claim that the goods are not of merchantable quality against the Sale of Goods Act 1979. This is a relatively vague Act and merchantable quality does not have an absolute definition. However for a professional camera to stop working on a professional photographer in 8 months is good grounds to claim non-merchantable quality. The store may contest this on the grounds of the use you've had, and if they are willing to settle may ask for a contribution on the basis of the use had (particularly if high shutter count). Again none of this is well covered in the Act.

If you bought it using a credit card, you may also claim against the credit card company under the Consumer Credit Act as they too are responsible for proving goods of merchantable quality. I suggest you also involve them in your claim.

None of this will be easy, but armed with the right knowledge of the law you stand a chance of a refund or replacement. If in doubt, consult a solicitor or the CAB.
 
I think it should be easy to prove.. I ahve proof of the last three times it went back to canon and the fact its dead now would be proof of not fot for use..

It does get a hamering of use.. Looking at my website I have covered 19 events in the first 21 days of march.. 2 games today and would have been 2 tommorow but ice hockey is doubtful with the mk2 :( But its meant to be used as a profesional camera not a part time profesional camera :)

I have sent an email to the CPS

I am going to fax the shop as there not good with emails.

BIG QUESTION .. should I send it back to canon to be repaired while I am sorting this out or keep hold of it? even if i get it fixed I ahve lost all confidence in it .. thats the 100% truth of it
 
The SoG legislation actually allows you to lodge a claim well after any warranty period has passed. Goods must last for what could be considered "reasonable life expectancy", so even after 2 or 3 years you would still technically have a claim, although pursuing it might be more hassle than it was worth on a low value item (obviously not applicable in this case).

Rejecting an item as "not fit for purpose" or "not of merchantable quality" can be tricky if you've let them attempt to repair it more than a couple of times, however I'd be tempted to pay a visit to a CAB and get proper advice from them before tackling the retailer and I'd also be inclined to apprise your cc/finance company if there was one involved in the purchase as they are jointly liable with the supplier.
 
PlaneMike said:
FWIW, my 1dIII went back to the retailer for a refund.
Mike
Click to expand...


Can you expand on that per chance ?

Got mine from a shop in middlesborough


PS I paid by bank transfer RBS to RBS
 
KIPAX said:
BIG QUESTION .. should I send it back to canon to be repaired while I am sorting this out or keep hold of it? even if i get it fixed I ahve lost all confidence in it .. thats the 100% truth of it
Click to expand...

Under no circumstances allow them to attempt to repair it again if you intend to pursue a "not fit for purpose" claim...
 
The trouble is that even though you're right it could take quite some time to sort out. And during that time you're effectively without a working camera. If you've got enough money to go and buy another (or just to change systems) then it's not a problem, if not then it might be wise to consider other options...

Also do consider if the "latest" fix for AF and error 99 (you log them as separate faults) would actually solve the problem. They fixed mine (AF not err 99) and it did make a noticeable difference. Unfortunately I've sent it back with the 35L because every other lens was absolutely spot on except for that one. But Canon really do seem to be falling over themselves to be helpful at the moment and they're going to redo the Af fix and check the lens over (at least two years out of warranty) as "goodwill".

So... given that info, could you get a loaner from CPS whilst yours in being looked at?
I doubt that it would weaken any case you already have, but it would probably be quicker if the fix(es) do work for you.

cheers
Bill
 
Defiance said:
Read section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act:

http://www.johnantell.co.uk/SOGA1979.htm

There is no 6 month limit in the Sale of Goods Act.
Click to expand...

The CAB website quotes a 6 month time frame between the onus being on the vendor to swapping over to the purchaser.

If you take the goods back within six months of buying them, the trader must accept that they were faulty at the time of sale and offer to repair or replace them. If the trader doesn't accept that the goods were faulty, they will have to prove this.
If you have had your goods for more than six months when they go wrong, you can still ask the trader to repair or replace them, but you may have to prove that they were faulty when you bought them if the trader doesn't agree. You can ask for a repair or replacement at any time up to six years after you bought the goods (five years in Scotland), as long as it is reasonable for them to have lasted this long. If the goods go wrong after six years (or five in Scotland), you no longer have the right to ask for a repair or replacement.

The above is from http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index...ghts.htm#your_legal_rights_when_you_buy_goods

Bob
 
I have asked CPS about a loaner but I seem to recall them saying they dont give loans like that.. need to get an answer from them.,. prob monday :(

I updated the firmaware on the day it was released which is why i was suprised.. the main update was the error messages...

my error isnt on the back screen.. its on the top screen.. i cant access menus or anything.. its just there all the time unless i take the battery out...
 
Canon Bob said:
The CAB website quotes a 6 month time frame between the onus being on the vendor to swapping over to the purchaser.

If you take the goods back within six months of buying them, the trader must accept that they were faulty at the time of sale and offer to repair or replace them. If the trader doesn't accept that the goods were faulty, they will have to prove this.
If you have had your goods for more than six months when they go wrong, you can still ask the trader to repair or replace them, but you may have to prove that they were faulty when you bought them if the trader doesn't agree. You can ask for a repair or replacement at any time up to six years after you bought the goods (five years in Scotland), as long as it is reasonable for them to have lasted this long. If the goods go wrong after six years (or five in Scotland), you no longer have the right to ask for a repair or replacement.

The above is from http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index...ghts.htm#your_legal_rights_when_you_buy_goods

Bob
Click to expand...

The CAB give good advice and this may be a general approach from their experience, however, their advice does not over-ride the law and the Act which do not explicitly say 6 months or in fact offer any time period. Also, goods do not have to be faulty from new to make a claim. Part of the Act, for example, relates to durability which has nothing to do with being faulty at the point of purchase.
 
An alternative to the CAB: http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/

My local CAB doesn't seem too well-informed and there's likely to be a queue of peeps with debt problems. Consumer Direct work with Trading Standards and the CAB and can provide advice by phone or email.
 
My local CAB has a 3 and a half week waiting list for apointments :( Am gonna pin my hopes on the CPS helping me out... I am desperate... I have some jobs this week that really do need the mkIII .. arrrgh
 
​
FWIW, my 1dIII went back to the retailer for a refund.
Mike
Click to expand...


​
Can you expand on that per chance ?
Click to expand...

After researching and letting the dust settle on the early AF issues, it seemed that Canon had got the 1DIII sorted so I decided to buy.

From day one I was unhappy with focus but decided it must be me and persevered.

The latest recall from Canon explained a lot but this is the 3rd time and I just lost confidence that this will be the final fix.

What to do ? - since I was only recently invested in the 1DIII (only a matter of weeks), I returned it for a refund - gutted !

Mike
 
if you search on google you will find lots and lots of problems with the 1dmk3

canon created a dog and they know it....

some people have got got reliable good models - many - including yourself have not, my advice is get the current problem fixed then sell the damm thing and get another 1d mk2n or Nikon d3...

as this will speed up the the process of getting from where you are now to the position of having a reliable camera that works - today tomorrow the next day ....(so you can get on with what you do best)

the big questions is; is it worth the stress - canon do not want to admit that they created a dog so will fight. The best you will get is a replacement 1dmk3 - they are not going to admit that all of them are dogs - as they are not (all dogs) but some are so they will just replace the one you have as being faulty - will you ever trust it or will you always be waiting for it to go wrong....

it's not a bad time to sell second-hand kit - but maybe not here...
 
I ahve to admit using the mkII today once i got used to it.. every pic was what i thought it would be.. just seems more reliable.. BUT and the big but is that I do a lot of night work... a game a night nearly.. I need the high iso for the better pics.. A d3 would be the answer but that means swapping lenses.. i cant afford the big swap.. the time or the money it would cost..

I seem to be stuck.. i cant do without a high iso camera but going for a replacement could leave me stranded for a while..

its all a bit depressing to be honest... been really fed up today :(
 
nothing back from CPS after my two emails over the weekend.

contacted the shop i bought from and they say get in touch with canon.. they cant replace it unless canon agree so i need to contact them.. they where amazed that i have had so many problems and said canon should help.. they said if they dont then mention nikon cus they dont like that..


sigh..

however he did say that error is usually self fixable.... he reccomends taking the internal battery out.. so the wifes going uptown later and she will buy my a tiny ikle screwdriver.. like a jewlers as i ahvent got owt that small.. will take the batery out and see if it resets as my next step
 
Just a thought but would taking the battery and generally messing around with screwdrivers not invalidate any warranty you have. I personally would leave it or at least ask the shop you bought it from to remove it.

Andy
 
Andysnap said:
Just a thought but would taking the battery and generally messing around with screwdrivers not invalidate any warranty you have. I personally would leave it or at least ask the shop you bought it from to remove it.

Andy
Click to expand...

the shop did say to remove it.. the manual gives you instructions how to remove it and with no warnign re warranty... so should be OK .. however your right to think it.. the thought did cross my mind as well :)
 
Exactly what I thought.. getting the run around with no one taking responibility and no help

Still nothing from CPS :(

Shop says they cant do anything have to contact canon.

Canon are a joke who say oh err99 you need to register on the website and someone will be in touch wihtin 7 days... I tell her the camera is dead.. they say no replacemnt go back to the retailer.. I say CPS member.. she says will endevour to do it in 3 days if i send back

I reiterate sending it back just means you fix and i ahve a camera i ahve no confidence in :(

she says this is the final fix.. it fixes all problems.. i ask how this fix would have fixed the lens holding catch that wasnt working... oh yeagh she says.

absoloute joke :(

so back to retailer who takes my number and says he will get in touch with the canon sales rep and see what he says.

so ... what have i spent with canon recently.. 10k + and here i am with a serious problem and no one willing to even try and help me :(


PS internal battery removed and replaced.. no difference..
 
ooer shop got back to me.. canon rep says no way should it be going wrong so many times... canon rep says will take serial number.. confirm it has been repaired 3 times and get back to shop..

when he does (i have a copy of all three work orders in front of me so no danger) then i have to send this to shop and he will then order a new camera (none in stock arrgh)

so its not confirmed yet but looks like i will get a new camera... 8mths of real heavy use with this one so i should be happy wiht a new one... but my confidence is shot to bits.. will it work all the time?

also how long is this going to take.. so i fired another email off to cps to ask for a loan camera until sorted... as i ahvent had any responses off them yet.. i wont hold my breath :(

anyone know the nearest nikon outlet :(
 
KIPAX said:
I have asked CPS about a loaner but I seem to recall them saying they dont give loans like that.. need to get an answer from them.,. prob monday :(

I updated the firmaware on the day it was released which is why i was suprised.. the main update was the error messages...

my error isnt on the back screen.. its on the top screen.. i cant access menus or anything.. its just there all the time unless i take the battery out...
Click to expand...

Loan gear is only provided in the event that a repair takes longer than three days for imaging equipment. Not sure this is from the day it is when it arrives to when it is complete ignoring delivery times or when its when parts are ordered if required.
 
As the shop havent got any and will have to get one from canon hot off the press so to speak then I would be suprised if it needs a fix.. imagine if they replce one camera only to say I need to send it in for a fix.. I would guess a fully sorted camera

as for replacement.. I ahve emailed cps three times.. I ahve filled out the online form.. i ahve stressed the imnportance and used the words "please" and "help" a lot... still no reply :(
 
Oakey22 said:
is there a phone number to ring up, if not ring canon directly or give one of the directors an email?
Click to expand...
You get a rep which is there to look after your area.
sportysnaps said:
"
dear cps

please get it right this time or I will sell up and go to Nikon

signed busy sports photographer

p.s this is an area where canon beats Nikon every single time till the 1dmk3....(get it SORTED)
"

just my view...
Click to expand...

Agreed. I would see it as a hindrance especially if I rely on it for my earnings. The essence of CPS.
 
Well.. another day gone and still being ignored by the CPS

Canon rep not got back to the shop yet.. I have noiw copied the three workshheets and sent them to the shop as backup to my claim

Still sat here with dead mkIII and I ahve a league 2 game accy v darlington tonight.. shooting for 3 different newspapers in a very dark ground with the mkII and am worried :(
 
Does the 1Ds mk III have the same bad reputation for reliability, or is it just the crop-sensor 1D?

Canon are being really dumb :wacky: It would serve them right if they began to lose market share to Nikon due to getting a reputation for producing unreliable cameras. To think I switched to Canon last year from having used Nikon film SLRs :(

A.
 
Defiance said:
If you bought it using a credit card, you may also claim against the credit card company under the Consumer Credit Act as they too are responsible for proving goods of merchantable quality. I suggest you also involve them in your claim.
Click to expand...

The CC company are jointly and severably liaible with the retailer, but I think there may be a time limit on this. You would need to check with the CAB.

Under joint and several liability, a claimant may pursue an obligation against any one party as if they were jointly liable.
 
as mentioned... bank transfer.. looks like its a waiting game now... mega dissapointed with CPS though..

gary.. your trying to turn me with the nikon gear arrnt you!!! hehehe pm replied... many thanks :)
 
Well its now the 6th day since the mkIII died and the 6th day since i contacted the CPS.. 4 emails and the online CPS form filled in and not a peep back from them :( :(

Camera still sat here because the shop have not yet confirmed it will be replaced.. they are awaiting the canon rep to confirm its been taken in three times already... I even sent them the worksheets from canon to backup my claim.

At least my ever ready ever stable ever reliable mkII is performing to its usual high standards while I wait :)
 
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