Tutorial Guidance on how much to charge

I try to separate business client work from private client work. The primary focus of the business is architectural photography and art work photography. Mainly images of prints and paintings for books, catalogues etc. and work commissioned by architects or manufacturers. As these are both relatively specialised areas and both can be technically very challenging they usually require a considerable amount time in set up, client discussion/involvement and PP and I am able to charge a fair premium over my private rates.
 
Thanks Garry some great basic pointers, a really good read, and i guess Northern nikon to for pointing out a few alternative thoughts, but really after your first couple of posts my eyes started to bleed, it seems to be a theme on here, someone offers good information, someone else points out it's flaws and they debate for ever and day afterwards, :thinking:, still lots of very useful information......
 
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I did write a tutorial on pricing, it's in the tutorials section for anyone wanting to read it and like NorthernNikon I also advocate knowing the costs before setting pricing.

I do also however advocate Garry's approach of "what the market will stand"

I looked at all my costs in terms of what I can and can't influence. For example I can't change the cost of buying in an album or the insurance. I may be able to shop around a little bit but there are some costs that are fixed. The others I can influence. I can set marketing budgets and I can decide not to travel over a certain distance.

Once you know your operating costs you have to decide where, if any you are going to obtain a profit. Garry points out some excellent points regarding things like print sales, i,e, don't rely on them. Once you have worked out where your profit lies, you need to decide how much profit you need (or are happy) to make.

That's the point to be doing competitive analysis. If you don't know what they are or how to change the costs you could easily be setting a price point that leaves you working for nothing or pricing yourself out of the market.

Don't forget too that the pricing can and will change year to year especially in the first few years. You may start out offering cheaper albums and move to more expensive ones as you try to move up the ladder. You may decide that better stationery suits your target market better, you may decide to spend more on advertising/marketing. And so these new figures still need putting into your business model or you could be in trouble financially.
 
I accept Alison's point about knowing the costs absolutely - this is a given.
The point that I'm really trying to push here though is that the right price is nearly always the price that the market will bear. So many pricing guides advocate a pricing formulae based just on cost, but cost is just ONE of the factors.

The big danger with basing price on cost is that you will either under-price because the job is worth more than x times the cost, or over-price because your personal costs are too high. If your costs are too high, either reduce your costs or don't quote for the job, I'm not suggesting that you should do the job for too low a profit.

So, pricing on what the market will bear will stop you from either underpricing or overpricing - yes, it's a simplistic strategy but it's the strategy that is adopted for just about every product or service that we buy...
 
The big danger with basing price on cost is that you will either under-price because the job is worth more than x times the cost, or over-price because your personal costs are too high. If your costs are too high, either reduce your costs or don't quote for the job, I'm not suggesting that you should do the job for too low a profit.

There's no big danger here. If you under price then you will have already worked out what your cost plus profit margin is so you would still be happy with the income from the job. You've given the customer a cheaper than market rate price to they are happy so you are in a win-win situation.

You are right that if your costs are too high you can look to see if you can lower them or simply not quote, but this is the reason why you should always ensure that your pricing covers costs first and foremost. These options aren't open to you if you price to the market, the damage will have been done.

So, pricing on what the market will bear will stop you from either underpricing or overpricing - yes, it's a simplistic strategy but it's the strategy that is adopted for just about every product or service that we buy...

Sorry Garry but it's too simplistic and it's wrong. Pricing to the market will only stop you from underpricing or overpricing from the customer's perspective and not your accountant's. If people follow such a simplified view they could easily end up in a financial mess. If you want to simplify things you have to ensure that pricing covers costs plus profit. Only then can you see how the price you have come to is one the market will bear. If it isn't then you either have to revisit your costs or realise that you cannot make it financially viable.

I am not saying that cost is the only factor, but it is the most important one, and by a long stretch.
 
i've just sat and read the whole thing with the wife nagging me in the background!! But thank you Barney and Garry for a thread that is invaluable reading....certainly got me re thinking a few things! And i'll sit firmly on the fence and agree with both of you.;)
 
17 october 2008, just realised the date of the opening thread!! Talk about standing the test of time...!
 
Thanks for all the clear-headed and down-to-earth business advice.
 
This post is really interesting and also helpful for every person.These information is really valuable. I hope that many people will also like this information.
 
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This post is really interesting and also helpful for every person.These information are really valuable and I do follow this. I hope that many people will also like this information.
 
Thank you to all for contributing to this thread.

I'm just starting out, and I'm terrified of "pricing" what I do.
 
Thanks a lot, learnt a lot of helpful information from this post! :)
 
Question: How do you decide what a 'profit' is? The camera/etc might be paid for, and therefore all you have to cover are insurance, travel costs, proof printing and a CD and possibly the album.

So, do you add all those up & decide what a decent profit would be?

What about studio shoots? Do you look at insurance, rent (if in rented studio), travel costs, etc and then do a mark-up?
 
Question: How do you decide what a 'profit' is? The camera/etc might be paid for

but you will have brought these into the business.. they will ahve depreciation and will need replacing updating...
 
You cannot know your profit until you know your costs, and costs include all of the things that you have to spend money on in order to run the business.

So, as Kipax says, it doesn't matter whether or not you have already paid for the camera, that's irrelevant because you will need to replace it at some point, and will also need to invest money in other equipment.
That applies to everything else that you use in the business - your car for example, not only a percentage of the cost of replacing it but also a percentage of the cost of keeping it running, insuring it, petrol, washing it and so on.

Then there are the costs of your computer equipment, which will probably need to be replaced even more often than your camera, the cost of your telephone, heating, lighting, rent and rates - and if you happen to be working from your own home then the costs are the same, you are simply paying rent to yourself instead of to a landlord - these 'notional' costs still have to be taken into account.

What's left over still isn't profit, you have to pay yourself first, because your wages are part of the cost of running the business.

Only when you have allowed all of the costs are you left with the profit, which is the figure the business will be taxed on.

That's a very simplistic explanation, your accountant will give you a much better one.
 
We all start with some equipment and that will need replacing/servicing. There are ongoing costs like insurance, credit card terminals, web hosting, advertising etc.

If you are working towards doing this professionally then start to build up a list of all the costs - if you replace the camera every 3 years then assign 1 third of the cost per year - I would be surprised by anybody below £3K and expect maybe £5K per year.

Work out how many jobs you will do in the year i.e 20 weddings and that would give you your base costs e.g. £3000 / 20 = £150.

Next work out costs associated with a particular job such as an album, prints, suit cleaning, transport which again may be £150 so each job costs you £300.

The wedding may be an 8 hour day but add in processing, pre wedding meets etc etc. and maybe you have got 30 hours+ of work.

Makes you wonder why people are charging £250 or less for a wedding. You could use cheaper albums etc. and lower the cost per job and/or you could take on more weddings and spread the base costs.

This is a very simplistic way to look at it but does highlight how many get their pricing wrong.

Mike
 
Garry, thanks for this. This is something I am really pondering over at the moment. I have just spoken to two people at work one of which loved my portfolio and said she wanted me to do a number of shots imminently with the other wanting some next month. At the moment I have no idea on what to charge and I need to get it right now as the word spreads around work. The girl I have coming round shortly had been going to a local photographer who's prices seem VERY high. I didn't want to seem to cheap or too expensive!

Anyway off to the bank now for my meeting about opening my business bank account......
 
Garry, this is VERY useful but once they have the CD of proofs how much do you then charge for each size?
 
Garry, this is VERY useful but once they have the CD of proofs how much do you then charge for each size?

Whatever the market will bear - which depends on how much your competitors charge for similar quality. It has NOTHING to do with the cost of production.
 
a brilliant post Garry ..... very relevant to me as I am just working on how to guage my prices for a newbie wedding photographer.
 
The one element people often forget is that so much of a wedding shoot is about your "flavour?" whatever you shoot, contemporary, reportage etc..It's good to get an identity in your work. THis comes at the price of your retouching and image preparation and this is an internal cost that you should factor in or you can find yourself running at leass than the minimum wage in reality!
 
If you're saying that a lot of people charge far too less because they don't take account of the time spent getting the work, shooting the wedding, carrying out the retouching, producing the finished result etc etc then I agree with you, and of course this has an adverse effect on the industry.

But surely creating wedding (or any other) images to a 'style' involves basically batch production, which takes very little time? If a LOT of time needs to be spent on retouching then perhaps the photographers involved need to be honing their camera skills and relying less on their retouching skills? Computer work should always involve making great shots look even better, not rescuing bad ones...

And none of this should affect the price charged, which should be based on what the market will bear. The only time that the cost (in terms of time and materials + capital investment etc etc) should come into it is in assessing whether the amount that the market will bear is worth the cost of production.
 
Perhaps in a way I was inferring that many do not take into acount the overhead of post capture, presentation and sales? On a big wedding this can eat a lot of time and the nett hourly rate can be very small. I recall one photographer who had what can only be described as a fetish for tinkering with everything and his hourly rate was less than the guy collecting trolleys in Tescos carpark. FACT!
 
This is a very very useful thread.

Ive been asked to do a couple of weddings recently, turned them down as I wasnt confident enough and didnt have the neccasary equipment.

Gives me some thought for the future.
 
I have just read this after being linked to it from another thread. Great read thankyou.

My mums friend was having her vows renewed earlier this year and wasnt bothered about a photographer at all but I asked to do it, purely for experience and she agreed.

I did lots of planning and reading up, took competent shots, processed them and put them onto a cd for her and she was really happy. Paid me a little too which was a bonus....

However all my good work was almost about to be undone. Luckilly with my parents being such close friends they got to cast their eyes on the prints/album. The company which had printed them had done a shocking job, the prints were blurry, black and white shots had a green cast, unbelievable quality.

I managed to take the prints from her and replace them with another set before she showed too many friends and family and damage my reputation before I even have one...haha

I have learnt big style and if I ever do the same again, insist I provide them with the prints along with the CD so they would immediately notice a bad quality print alongside them the ones I provide.
 
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There's quite a few posts asking how much to charge and it's very difficult to give a helpful answer, simply because there are too many variables at play.
But I thought it might be helpful to post the following small extract from my Professional Photogaphy Manual
Unfortunately if you want to read the other 100 pages you'll have to buy it;)

Perhaps this post could be a sticky?

How much should you charge?
If you read the average guide to running a photographic business you’ll be advised to do your sums, work out how much you need to earn per hour, build in an allowance for the cost of your equipment, your car running costs, your business rates, your telephone costs and everything else that you need to spend in order to run your business.

And that’s just fine in theory, but it’s only theory and it doesn’t work!

The true answer is that you should
charge what people are prepared to pay.


If, for example, you want to photograph weddings and the average photographer in your area charges £1,000 for full coverage and an album with 40 prints, there is no point in charging £2,000 (unless of course your work is outstanding and you have so many people begging you to photograph their wedding that you can’t cope with the demand)

Of course, you could charge just £250….
And it might be a good idea to charge low prices at first, just to get some more experience and build your portfolio, but as a long term strategy it simply won’t work because
1. You need to make a profit. Most people will think that you’re too cheap so you can’t be any good. Would you risk something as important as the photography of your own wedding by employing someone who isn’t any good?
2. If you charge too little most of the people who book you will be people whose weddings will do little or nothing to enhance either your portfolio or your reputation.



It goes without saying that you should be competitive without being too cheap. If you charge too little, not only will you not make the level of profit you need, potential clients will assume that you are cheap because your work is not up to the required standard and if you charge too much people will go elsewhere. The going rate for any job should be based on the price charged by most competent photographers in your area – look in Yellow Pages, let your fingers do the walking and find out what your competitors are charging!

Your own prices may be higher if, for example, you're an outstanding photographer and you have people queuing to book you. Or they may be lower, if you're just starting out, don't have a client base and can't match the quality or service of other photographers – but they should be within about 25% of the median prices* charged by most competitors.

The other, very important point about your charges is that they should be enough to give you a healthy profit without any additional sales.

*Ignore people who charge ridiculously high or ridiculously low prices and base your own prices on those whose prices are in the middle of the range.

Using a wedding as an example again, suppose that you need to charge £1,000 to make a decent profit – don’t assume that if you only charge £500 and rely on sales of extra prints to friends and relatives, that these sales will actually happen! What if
a. A friend of the Bride & Groom follows you around with their own camera and undercuts your print prices?
b. Someone scans your photos into their computer and produces cut-price prints?
c. Or photocopies your proofs?
d. Or it’s a very small wedding and there are very few potential customers for prints?
e. Or if the marriage is over before the album is ready?

There are always people who think that it's perfectly OK to scan or re-photograph prints to avoid paying for future prints. A lot of people will try to avoid paying for any prints at all by copying proofs – so it makes very good sense for every proof to be printed with a large copyright mark, including your name, address, phone No. and anything else you can think of. Even tiny, low-res files for email use are at risk – I recently had a wedding client who complained that his email proofs were 'fuzzy' when he got Jessops to print them and he could see nothing wrong in trying to steal my work. This is why I say that you must earn enough from your charges to give you a healthy product without any additional sales.


I can't give you specific advice on how much you should charge because I don't know how good your photography is or how much most photographers in your area charge, but it might help if I explain how I used to charge, and how I do it now…
I thought it would be a good idea to photograph weddings, after all I have an assistant who likes wedding photography and is very good at it.
So I started off by offering a range of packages, starting at £550 and including 30 8"x6" prints in a middle-range album. The next package up was £650, the £750, £950 and £1150. Nobody ever booked the top package and the few people who did book generally went for the cheapest package.

It really wasn't worth doing for £550 so I put all the prices up by £100. People still generally went for the cheapest package but the number of bookings went up.

Then I dropped all of the packages and introduced a new service - £750 for attendance and proofs (on CD) only. The number of bookings more than doubled.

The point is, wedding photography is a professional service and its value is whatever the photographer and the client believe it to be – although there are always some people who are looking for the cheapest, the potential clients who are most worth having are more likely to make their buying decisions based on quality and perceived value than on price.

They pay a non-refundable retainer at the time of booking and the balance has to be paid 28 days before the wedding. They get the proofs when they return from honeymoon and then they make their decisions about prints and albums.

The lowest amount they can possibly spend on an album is around £350 (30 8"x6" prints in a budget album) bringing their total expenditure to £1100 – about the same as the cost of my original top package that nobody ever bought but with a lesser number of smaller prints. Some people go for 50 10"x8" prints, at a cost of £847 in a traditional album, making a total of £1597, others go for a storybook album which can cost even more.

Some people want to supply their own album. Fine, I'll mount the photos in it free – I can afford to because I'm making a fair profit on the prints.

Some people don't want an album at all, that's fine too. Or they may want their photos on DVD – the price of which is exactly the same as the profit I would have made if they had spent the average amount on prints.

The great benefit of this pricing strategy is that
a. the clients have a complete choice of album, number and size of prints
b. they pay for the photography at least a month before their wedding and they pay for the album/prints at least a month after their wedding – by which time they have benefited from at least two more pay days
c. extra (non album) prints are often ordered after the wedding album is supplied, and is paid for from a different salary payment.


Let’s take another example, a family portrait this time.

Some photographers charge very low sitting fees (or no sitting fees at all) in the hope that their clients will love their work and order lots of prints. If this business model has any chance of success the prints will have to be very highly priced, but if the print prices are too high then many of the clients won’t buy very many – if any - prints, which means that the profit has to come from less people, which means that the prices need to be even higher, which means….


Now, what I do is to charge what I feel to be a minimum realistic sitting fee, £75. This is just enough to make it worthwhile, and includes a full set of proofs, printed 8”x6”. Even if they never order any enlargements, my costs are covered and I’ve made a small profit. But because the proofs are watermarked they are almost bound to order enlargements, and here’s why

1. They paid their £75 sitting fee at the time of booking. That money is now gone and forgotten and when they order their prints they will only think about what they are spending when they order, they won’t think about what they have already spent
2. If they don’t order any enlargements then all they’ll have for their £75 is the proofs – which can't be used or scanned because they are very boldly marked with my copyright notice.
3. Because I have already been paid for my time my prices for enlargements are very reasonable, compared with those of people who charge nothing or too little for the sitting – so the clients are likely to order more prints than they originally had in mind
4. Because my enlargement prices are reasonable I’m one of the good guys, and they will recommend me to their friends.

Thanks Gary, I wish I had read this when I started out. Your portrait pricing thoughts are pretty much what I had arrived at through trial and error for the exact same reasons as you say, but I could have saved myself a lot of time.
H x
 
Ive been asked by a family member to shoot her wedding at a stately home, beautiful location, beautiful bride, I am very nervous, Ive told her this, but she said she'd feel more comfortable having me shoot her wedding, Im not charging her at all, the photos will be a gift to her from us, could be valuable, could be useless!
Where should I get my photos of the day printed, I was going to take them to the boots kiosk:eek: (joke), seriously though, Im in Newcastle upon Tyne.
Where should I take them, as Im not splashing out on a home printer!

Great post by the way.:clap:
 
If you read the guide to the average run photography business doctor will advise you to do your sum, and work out how much you earn per hour allowance based on your equipment costs, operating costs of your car, your business rates, your Telephone charges and all other you need to spend to run your business.
 
Nice, I am building a UAV, I am trying to figure out how much should I charge, because I have already found a summer job. It will probably taking 5-10 days of work. It will depend on the weather.

Good pricing guide.
 
This is really helpful. I wish I had noticed and read before starting my own thread.

Am I the first to make this mistake?:bonk::bonk::bonk:
 
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