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CPS are considering it apparentlyI wonder if David Duckenfield or Norman Bettison et al will face criminal charges now.
CPS are considering it apparently
Aye, `considering` it
The probability will be (IF they decide to go ahead) it will take so long they will have popped their clogs by then.
CPS are considering it apparently
Would it do any good. Sure if you deliberately cause harm then there should be consequences but what about mistakes. They do happen. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but is it likely they did the actions they did because they wanted things to go wrong?
Luckily in my role, accidents or misjudgments are unlikely to have serious consequences.
The jury found that their behaviour was not a/the cause of the disaster.What I don't understand is how can no blame lies with the 100s of Liverpool fans who climb walls to get into the game without tickets? Surely they contributed to this horrific day as much as the police and stewards.
Thank you, now I understand.The jury found that their behaviour was not a/the cause of the disaster.
Without having sat through all the evidence I'm not in a position to doubt their verdict.
But my understanding, from limited background knowledge, is that the key error was not delaying kickoff whilst a significant number of fans were still trying to get in.
Justice at last
I feel for the victims and their families, 27 years is a long time for the truth to come out.
What I don't understand is how can no blame lies with the 100s of Liverpool fans who climb walls to get into the game without tickets? Surely they contributed to this horrific day as much as the police and stewards.
Sorry if this upsets anyone, it's not meant to, just me trying to understand what happened that terrible day.
Sorry? Explain the justice comment? I don't understand.
There was mismanagement. There was coverup, attempt to deflect the blame and refusal to accept wrong doing, but the police have often done that.
I don't see Justice, has anyone been found guilty? I fully expect some officers will retire with full pension
I fully expect some officers will retire with full pension
I feel for the victims and their families, 27 years is a long time for the truth to come out.
What I don't understand is how can no blame lies with the 100s of Liverpool fans who climb walls to get into the game without tickets? Surely they contributed to this horrific day as much as the police and stewards.
Sorry if this upsets anyone, it's not meant to, just me trying to understand what happened that terrible day.
What IS clear, however, is that those involved have, at every opportunity, lied to protect themselves and their organisations.
Even if there is insufficient evidence to press charges for the tragedy itself, this continued cynical dishonesty and perjury must not go unaccounted for.
Exactly.I would agree that mistakes do happen, even lethal ones, but what I personally find unforgivable is the conspiracy of lies that followed from the police and other authorities and their absolute determination to lay the entire blame at the feet of the Liverpool fans.
Documents were altered, statements withdrawn and replaced...all acts of fraud, and conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.
These were deliberate and calculated acts designed to make the world believe that the fans were entirely to blame, and they, the police had done no wrong.
Proof for what claim? I've made no claim, I stated an opinion.Please Rob provide proof to back up your claim because a jury that sat for two years couldn't find any. (Please also read my previous post)
No The Greek doesn't believe the lies put out by Police, Press or whoever, which is why he asked the question on here for those who are more informed to try and explain so I was able to understand the verdict, which was answered very well."The Greek" seems to still believe the lies that was put out by the police and the press after the disaster. The cover up here is very worrying and it has to make you wonder about other events that have happened and what cover ups there have been?
I think its the bit about the ticketless fans.Proof for what claim? I've made no claim, I stated an opinion.
Is it actually known how many supporters arrived at the ground without tickets? This wouldn't be a problem if the gates hadn't been opened?
.......and lastly id love to have that old witch thatcher exhumed and paraded through the streets JFT96
There's evidence to suggest she knew the detail of what happened at Hillsboro and was happy to keep it secret.Is this because you consider that she was in some way responsible for the Hillsborough tragedy or simply because she supported the trial and manslaughter convictions of the 14 Liverpool fans deemed to be culpable in the deaths of Italian supporters at Heysel?
Bob
From the released details it seems that she wanted the criticism of the police "toned down" rather than kept secret....unless there's more substantiating stuff out there.There's evidence to suggest she knew the detail of what happened at Hillsboro and was happy to keep it secret.
Gracious apology?I didn't listen to all the news tonight but what I heard was a very gracious apology from the police.
This was a horrible episode and oh, how everyone wishes it hadn't happened and quite how it's taken 27 years to get to this stage and ... at least we now have some sort of final solution.
I've always felt a little sorry for the police as back in those days the hooliganism element was increasing year on year and there were over 6,000 arrests for this back then. There were gangs, troubles on trains and all sorts. Nowadays there are around 1,800 arrests, mainly for drunkenness and uncivil behaviour. I'm not trying to excuse the police as there was a major error of judgement. What a sorry tale though and a dark period.
Those deceased people (requiescant in pace) won't walk alone and let's hope that the poor judgements of the authorities can be forgiven.
I'm probably going to be in a minority of one again...
I don't agree with the verdict(s) but it's what I expected, I see a pc verdict.
Looking back I wonder if a tragedy on some scale was inevitable or at least more likely than not at some stage. Maybe we've been lucky in this country when we consider what happens pretty regularly in other parts of the world but of course we'd expect fewer stamped / crush deaths in this country as we're supposed to be a developed first world country and we have fewer mass attendance events and when we have them the numbers in attendance are relatively fewer than in other places so such things shouldn't happen here as often but they can happen and back then the authorities simply were not as well organised and trained in crowd control and dealing with potential and actual mass casualties and venues and facilities simple were not as good and well thought out health and safety wise as they are today. These days any half competent person doing a risk assessment should have seen the potential but back then? I'm not so sure.
I can see the rational for the police ordering the opening the gates in an attempt to ease the crush which was developing but of course after that the road to tragedy was set. Actually I think that some level of tragedy was possibly inevitable on that day. What would have happened if the gates hadn't been opened we'll never know but perhaps the casualties would have been fewer. Those making decisions before, during and after the event didn't have perfect hindsight.
After the tragedy no one covered themselves in glory to put it mildly but I can understand the dishonesty as we have a culture of finding a sacrificial scapegoat and crucifying them. So of course cock up leads to dishonesty. We see this constantly in almost every organisation and walk of life but is it all that surprising? Maybe if as a society we tried to understand a little more and condemn and witch hunt a little less and instead retrain and council a little more we'd have less dishonesty and fewer cover up?
I don't agree with the verdicts and I would not agree with the prosecution of police officers or (less likely) health service personnel. I expect the baying for heads to continue but that will only lead to suffering for others and their families and what's to be gained? Do we need to crucify the living and dig up ex Prime Ministers (only Conservative ones of course...) and kill them all over again? Personally I think these deliberate actions after the event would be as sickening as the tragedy itself.
Time to stop baying for blood, mourn, learn from the tragic events and move on IMO.