Hit and run by a cyclist! What can we do?

[nandbytes]

poppycock the definition of speeding in the dictionary is and I quote,

The act or instance of operating a motor vehicle or motorboat faster than allowed by law.

i didn't know cyclist even have speed limit and in your definition its for a motorised vehicle not for a cyclist.

Anyway simply meant he was speeding up as he came down the road.

 

[Ste_S]

I f*****g hate cyclists , what a arrogant bunch of cretins most of them are , they seem to think that no laws or even as in this case basic human dignity apply to them .

I thought this post might bring the usual idiots out.

I'm a cyclist. Nice to know you f*****g hate me.

 

[Mr Bump]

i didn't know cyclist even have speed limit and in your definition its for a motorised vehicle not for a cyclist.

Anyway simply meant he was speeding up as he came down the road.

I'm sorry but your just making it up, a cyclist as in a car can only be "speeding" if he was indeed braking the speed limit which it is incredibly doubtfull he was .
I favour you fancy using that terminology as it fits your description of the events.

I propose the cyclist was simply making good progress until some careless youth ran in front of him causing him to crash.

 

[nandbytes]

I'm sorry but your just making it up, a cyclist as in a car can only be "speeding" if he was indeed braking the speed limit which it is incredibly doubtfull he was .
I favour you fancy using that terminology as it fits your description of the events.

I propose the cyclist was simply making good progress until some careless youth ran in front of him causing him to crash.

again i never said or meant he was breaking any speed limit. Also for the millionth time where did I ever say it was the cyclists fault for the crash. I have categorically said it was my brother's fault, i can't be any more clearer regardless of the terminology.

I am more concerned about the post-accident behaviour of the cyclist which you don't want to or care to comment about. I won't reply any further on the accident part because I have clearly explained everything and what I meant.

I am simply trying to get some opinions about the post-accident part, not about the accident itself which is clearly my brother's own fault

 

[nandbytes]

I thought this post might bring the usual idiots out.

I'm a cyclist. Nice to know you f*****g hate me.

well he hates me too. I am a cyclist. but its not my intention to start cycling religion war. Just trying to get some opinions on post-accident behaviour of the cyclist in this case (not saying by any means they are all like that!)

 

[nandbytes]

In your opening post you clearly state that the police attended the incident. If that is the case then the police will know that your brother was hit by a cyclist and they will also know that the cyclist fled the scene. What is it that you think you should report to the police that they don't already know?

Well I don't know the exact procedure but what you say is all correct. They have even collected witness evidence at the scene and also given us a reference number (sent with my other brother).

I imagine they will not take any action unless we request them to do so. Just wondering if we should and if its worth pursuing.

 

[andya700]

i didn't know cyclist even have speed limit and in your definition its for a motorised vehicle not for a cyclist.

Anyway simply meant he was speeding up as he came down the road.

So, one of the brothers who failed to see the cyclist, said that he was speeding up as he came down the road.
Remarkable, selective powers of observation.
This story has more holes than a string vest, so I hope that the cyclist would never have to face any of your, or your brothers' "evidence" in court.

 

[nandbytes]

So, one of the brothers who failed to see the cyclist, said that he was speeding up as he came down the road.
Remarkable, selective powers of observation.
This story has more holes than a string vest, so I hope that the cyclist would never have to face any of your, or your brothers' "evidence" in court.

No I haven't spoken to him about the accident at all. He is in the hospital still.
The brother who was watching it all happen said that.

If there is a court hearing the cyclist will face the evidence of collected by the police from the many witnesses that were around. I on the other hand will not be giving any evidence since I was many many miles away working!

Again I am not sure why you are getting hung up on the accident itself which I have categorically said is NOT the cyclist's fault. It's what happened after the accident i.e. hit and run that I was asking about. If you don't care about people who hit and run (regardless of which party is at fault) could you please stop commenting. You are derailing my thread from the point I am enquiring about which is clearly not about the accident itself.

 

[Fuji Dave]

The best thing to happen for all involved is, police find the cyclist and say you should always stay at the scene of an accident then leave once all details are given.

 

[Mr Bump]

you accused the cyclist of speeding, by that very statement I personally think you are trying to assign some blame to him/her.

 

[keef32]

Also for the millionth time where did I ever say it was the cyclists fault for the crash

It's baffling me how hard it is for people to grasp this point...



Also you can easily get above 30 on a pushbike, I used to be able to do it when I was 13 on my road... its not difficult with a slight decline.

 

[Byker28i]

I'm sorry but your just making it up, a cyclist as in a car can only be "speeding" if he was indeed braking the speed limit which it is incredibly doubtfull he was .
I favour you fancy using that terminology as it fits your description of the events.

I propose the cyclist was simply making good progress until some careless youth ran in front of him causing him to crash.

Wasn't the recent charge 'furious riding' rather than speeding?
One could equally say the rider was travelling too fast to stop when a hazard appeared?

He didn't stop - indicating guilt?

 

[woof woof]

I thought this post might bring the usual idiots out.

I'm a cyclist. Nice to know you f*****g hate me.

I don't want to take this thread off track so this will be the first and last time I post in it.

The behaviour of many cyclists I see is nothing short of disgraceful and I do hope that you ride within the rules and show some common decency but sadly a great many don't and I can for sure understand a bit of hate heading cyclists way.

As to the accident... I hope he can recover soon. Deffo pursue this and hopefully the cyclist can face some justice for his disgraceful behaviour after the accident. Any mitigation such as not seeing the accident victim or fear of being attacked, which I personally think is utter rubbish, will no doubt be considered just as it would be if I'd hit someone and driven off in my MX5.

 

[Petrochemist]

poppycock the definition of speeding in the dictionary is and I quote,

The act or instance of operating a motor vehicle or motorboat faster than allowed by law.

Thats ONE definition.

Collins English dictionary gives a slightly different one:
"Definition of 'speeding'
speeding in British
(ˈspiːdɪŋ)

noun a.
the act of driving a vehicle at high speed, esp in excess of the speed limit"

Which includes cases where the speed is within the limit. Exactly as used here.

FWIW I've never been particularly fit, but in my youth I've cycled passed my younger brother when his speedo was reading 40mph - my elder brother promptly raced past me, but he's always been a cycle nut
This was downhill, but only in East Anglia, where the hills are all quite small.

 

[Ste_S]

I don't want to take this thread off track so this will be the first and last time I post in it.

The behaviour of many cyclists I see is nothing short of disgraceful and I do hope that you ride within the rules and show some common decency but sadly a great many don't and I can for sure understand a bit of hate heading cyclists way.

As to the accident... I hope he can recover soon. Deffo pursue this and hopefully the cyclist can face some justice for his disgraceful behaviour after the accident. Any mitigation such as not seeing the accident victim or fear of being attacked, which I personally think is utter rubbish, will no doubt be considered just as it would be if I'd hit someone and driven off in my MX5.

"The behaviour of many motorists I see is nothing short of disgraceful and I do hope that you drive within the rules and show some common decency but sadly a great many don't and I can for sure understand a bit of hate heading motorists way."

But I don't hate Motorists. That would be stupid. They're are idiots no matter what form of transport they use.
It's a shame that some people are so small minded and blinkered that they *hate* a majority because of a minority

 

[nandbytes]

The best thing to happen for all involved is, police find the cyclist and say you should always stay at the scene of an accident then leave once all details are given.

Thanks for chipping in, this is exactly all that I want. I just want the person to be made aware that fleeing the scene is wrong and he should not do it in the future.

 

[viv1969]

Bottom line is your brother was at fault for the accident, you know that yourself as you've said.
"All" the cyclist has failed to do is to leave the scene of an accident. In the real world, even with video evidence, given your brothers' acknowledgement of guilt, all the cyclist would face is a police caution.

Best just to draw a line under the incident, and for your siblings to learn to look where they're going.

 

[boogie man]

If I was the cyclist I would have stopped to make sure someone had called an ambulance. If I, or my bike, was damaged, I might consider taking details for further action.

That's it.

I agree, he was a dick for not stopping

I agree with this.
The problem for the OP is how are you going to track the dick down? Sadly I imagine the police will have the same trouble.

 

[nandbytes]

Bottom line is your brother was at fault for the accident, you know that yourself as you've said.
"All" the cyclist has failed to do is to leave the scene of an accident. In the real world, even with video evidence, given your brothers' acknowledgement of guilt, all the cyclist would face is a police caution.

Best just to draw a line under the incident, and for your siblings to learn to look where they're going.

I am sure they'll have learnt that by now.

A police caution or warning or even a slap on the wrist is good enough to raise awareness. Imagine if the person does the same thing to someone else only this time in a car. What is to say he won't if he is not made aware his behaviour is unacceptable and could catch up to him? If he was in a car would you then not pursue him for hit and run (actually it'd be a criminal offence and police would pursue him by default)?

I agree with this.
The problem for the OP is how are you going to track the dick down? Sadly I imagine the police will have the same trouble.

the accident happened right in front of a London tube station which probably has very decent CCTV coverage. He is also probably a commuter that'll use the same path everyday around same time.

But I still appreciate catching him could be hard and more effort than its worth. But the what decides how much of an effort its worth?

 

[nandbytes]

Wasn't the recent charge 'furious riding' rather than speeding?
One could equally say the rider was travelling too fast to stop when a hazard appeared?

He didn't stop - indicating guilt?

fleeing the scene certainly suggests he thought he'd done something wrong.
All witnesses seems to have told the police that the light were green, so my brother should have waited for the red lights before crossing which is a fair point. he was after all at a crossing!!

 

[Gremlin]

Step back from who's fault it is for a moment,
If a car driver hit someone who ran out in front of them and just drove off
that would be an offence, not necessarily their fault but you are required by law to stop
and report it.
So why should mode of transport make any difference ?

 

[viv1969]

I think there's a lot of blurred opinions here between morality (which really applies only to an individual), and legality (which doesn't).

 

[Byker28i]

In the meantime - hows the lad doing today?

 

[nandbytes]

In the meantime - hows the lad doing today?

Thanks for asking.
He had the operation yesterday to have a rod put in. His bones had not only broken but also done a 180 degree turn!
The operation and correcting procedures were all carried out successfully.
Today was suppose to be the first weight bearing test. I haven't heard from the test yet. I suspect they have been busy this morning. Should know more tonight after I get there from work.

 

[cambsno]

considering the location it happened, there is plenty of CCTV coverage and witnesses inc. my other brother was also there at the time and confident he can recognise the person.
I agree one should stop regardless of the age but in think one should be more considerate especially towards people who can't help themselves as much.

To be fair though, I think someone pointed out that cyclists are not required to stop by law, and it sounds like your brother was 100% at fault, so not sure what the police could do? Why should he get a caution in that case?

 

[Fuji Dave]

I think everyone knows it was the lads fault, but if it had been me on the bike I would of stayed as someone screaming in pain proves he was not fine. Plus it is the best thing to do too, make sure person is ok.

 

[andya700]

Also you can easily get above 30 on a pushbike, I used to be able to do it when I was 13 on my road... its not difficult with a slight decline.

I don't know what your idea of a slight "decline" is, but Tour de France cyclists average 25 - 28MPH on flat stages and they are not exactly hanging around.
On a flat road with no wind, an ordinary person on an ordinary bike would struggle to actually reach 30MPH, and even if they did, they wouldn't be able to hold that speed for more than a couple of seconds.
I used to do half mile intervals at 30 - 32MPH on a time trial bike, fitted with aero/tri bars, wearing proper kit and cycling shoes.
I think some people on here need a reality check as to what is and what is not possible with regard to speed on a bicycle.

 

[andya700]

I think everyone knows it was the lads fault, but if it had been me on the bike I would of stayed as someone screaming in pain proves he was not fine. Plus it is the best thing to do too, make sure person is ok.

I think it could be something to do with the "fight or flight" reaction. It sounds as if there was a group of onlookers there as well? Did the cyclist feel threatened?
I wouldn't have expected the bike to be rideable after a collision like that.

 

[cambsno]

I think it could be something to do with the "fight or flight" reaction. It sounds as if there was a group of onlookers there as well? Did the cyclist feel threatened?
I wouldn't have expected the bike to be rideable after a collision like that.

I agree. Especially in London - mindset in an inner city could be there could be a risk of his 'gang' getting involved, and all it takes is someone to pull a knife out... Am not saying that excuses behaviour but could explain his reasoning.

 

[nandbytes]

To be fair though, I think someone pointed out that cyclists are not required to stop by law, and it sounds like your brother was 100% at fault, so not sure what the police could do?

The reason for the accident is well established.

It's a grey area like and as @Gremlin said "why should mode of transport make any difference"

 

[nandbytes]

I agree. Especially in London - mindset in an inner city could be there could be a risk of his 'gang' getting involved, and all it takes is someone to pull a knife out... Am not saying that excuses behaviour but could explain his reasoning.

This is simply not true. It's not like ever other kid is part of a gang and every other person is carrying a knife. That's simply bs.
Besides both my brothers were dressed smartly in suits. Not exactly something that shouts gang and knifes!

 

[simon ess]

I know this all getting a bit OT but, for balance, many 15 year old gang members wear school uniforms. I assume your brothers were wearing school uniforms.

I still think he should have stopped out of common humanity, but I suppose it's possible he felt a bit vulnerable and panicked a bit. Sudden accidents can mess with your head.

 

[nandbytes]

I know this all getting a bit OT but, for balance, many 15 year old gang members wear school uniforms. I assume your brothers were wearing school uniforms.

I still think he should have stopped out of common humanity, but I suppose it's possible he felt a bit vulnerable and panicked a bit. Sudden accidents can mess with your head.

No they were wearing suits as I said above.

And you'll probably come across very few gang members, it's not like every other 15 year old could be a gang member. That probability is rather small.

If he was scared of others in the area I find that very much believable because there were indeed a lot of onlookers, the gang member possibility is simply ridiculous.

 

[the black fox]

its weird though drop a bit of litter or a fag end or park outside of a lined parking bay and they can produce a photo or video that shows your nostril hairs clearly . but when something like this happens its not clear enough to see what happened . it would be very nice if this gent popped into a local cop shop and put his side of it to the police , but having seen how most behave these days it aint gonna happen or will it ? , perhaps a couple of placards like they have at roadsides i.e did you see a accident on this date . might jog his conscience if he passes every day .

and lets stop with the b*****ks about he might not have been speeding to break a teenagers leg bones and move the bones about it must have been excessive to say the least . if it was a younger child or older person it might even be a manslaughter case .. and the replies on here from the cycling support foundation only point to the fact I,m right cyclists are a danger to other road users and pedestrians alike . and something need doing

 

[cambsno]

its weird though drop a bit of litter or a fag end or park outside of a lined parking bay and they can produce a photo or video that shows your nostril hairs clearly . but when something like this happens its not clear enough to see what happened . it would be very nice if this gent popped into a local cop shop and put his side of it to the police , but having seen how most behave these days it aint gonna happen or will it ? , perhaps a couple of placards like they have at roadsides i.e did you see a accident on this date . might jog his conscience if he passes every day .

and lets stop with the b*****ks about he might not have been speeding to break a teenagers leg bones and move the bones about it must have been excessive to say the least . if it was a younger child or older person it might even be a manslaughter case .. and the replies on here from the cycling support foundation only point to the fact I,m right cyclists are a danger to other road users and pedestrians alike . and something need doing

Obviously we don't know, but I would say it was very unlikely he was doing in excess of 30mph which would have been the speed limit. The following bus or car would have probably have been doing that!

As for cyclists, I sit on both sides. While I use cycle lanes if available and keep to the left, I do bike back from the pub after a few, I do not always stop at red lights, although I will always carefully check before I do and always err on the side of caution. I know full well that if I end up hitting a car it aint going to be him coming off worse! But on my bikes to work I see some pretty poor cycling, 98% of the time its students between 12 and 20, who cycle 3 or even 4 abreast on the busway, or on the wrong side. At some point they will have an accident and it will be their fault.

 

[stupar]

cyclists are a danger to other road users and pedestrians alike . and something need doing

In the same way that car drivers are a danger to cyclists
In the same way that pedestrians are a dangers to cyclists and car drivers

You might have a beef with cyclists but please don't tar us all with the same brush that you have in your hand.

I doubt you are or have been a saint when it comes to being a pedestrian/motorist.......... I would almost guarantee that your halo has probably slipped a few times to date.

 

[cambsno]

This is simply not true. It's not like ever other kid is part of a gang and every other person is carrying a knife. That's simply bs.
Besides both my brothers were dressed smartly in suits. Not exactly something that shouts gang and knifes!

Of course not all are, but sadly that is the thing that may be in your head. There could have been many reasons why he didn't stop - he may have been worried about what others may do, he may have been rushing somewhere, he may have come off his bike and just been annoyed at someone walking in front of him, he may also have just thought the lad took a bang and there was no need to stop. Like Simon said, sometimes accidents or events can mess with your head a bit, leave you in a bit of shock. I maintain, he should have stopped and that would have been the correct thing to do, but that is more of a moral argument about what people should do or what is expected.

At the end of the day, from the account you have posted, it was 100% your brothers fault. It does sound like you are trying to place some of the blame or grief onto him. While its not great, at least it wasn't a car that hit him, which could have caused more serious injuries.

 

[nandbytes]

From what I gather it's perfectly fine to gravely injure someone while on bicycle and run away (regardless of which party is at fault) but it's a criminal offence to drive off in a car even if an accident results in no serious harm (regardless of which party is at fault).

Doesn't make logical sense does it?

I work in Cambridge and a there a lot of cyclist s. 5 out of 6 of my team members cycle to work. Every single one of them said hit and run is plainly wrong regardless of the mode of transportation. What is to say he won't do the same thing if and when he is in a car?

I am not trying to place the blame or grief on to the cyclist. If what he has done is wrong he should at least be made aware of it! Not too much ask from the law is it!

if it was a car or a bus as per your example it wouldn't have been fine to drive away but just because it's a bicycle it's fine? Are you suggesting one can go around causing grave harm to others and it's fine as long as it's on a bike because they can simply run away?

It was lucky that my brothers were in a crowded area where others could help. What if this happens on a quiet street? It's ok to leave some one to die because it's not your fault and you are on a bike but if you were in a car suddenly that's a criminal offence. Just doesn't sound very fair or logical.

p.s. I also cycle so I am not anti-cyclist. The law should be fair to everyone.

 

[simon ess]

It seems that most agree he was a bit of a dick, but we don't know what was going through his head. The law may be an ass, or not, and there's probably not much anyone can do about it.

They go to school in suits?

That is unusual. I'm intrigued

 

[nandbytes]

Law isn't perfect but I think the idea is it should try to be fair. If I explain our side of argument and if it is indeed fair I am sure police would at least carry out some sort of investigation.

Not at all. They have uniform till GCSEs and suits for A-level students. Some A-level colleges don't have any dress code. But they go to a grammar school which expect slightly more that others. it was the same for me also many years back.