Holga, Toy, Charity Shop, Car Boot and other Bargains (film only please)

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Instax (or other instant cameras) are nice to use. The image quality isn't the best, but because you're guaranteed a print, they're great for snapshots of family / friends / pets etc. that you can then stick on the side of the fridge or something.
I've ordered a double pack of film. I've got a city break coming up to Riga and want to go light (backpack only), I'm thinking of just shooting Instax and half frame. It will be interesting to see what Instax is like.
 
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Snip:
when you put it in a row between the T80 and the EOS 650 you can see my "missing link" comment - expand the row to the F1, T80, T90, EOS 650 and the first generation EOS-1 and its like that ascent of man image... QUOTE]
You've missed the most important link out of that chain above. The Canon A1.

That's the first mainstream production SLR that gave the world of photography the 5 modes to which it's become so accustomed: Programme (stick it on P and let the camera work out the aperture and shutter speed), Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority, Manual and Stopped Down AE. If you don't believe me, then find me a popular top-quality modern DSLR that doesn't have PASM and stopped down AE.

Oh, then there's the digital LED numerical readout display of the shutter speed and aperture info at the bottom of the viewfinder… another feature of the A1 that's still in use today.

All the much-hyped T90 did was update the features of an A1, put them in a curvy polycarbonate case, add some additional metering and viewfinder display features and an LCD, and stick on a built in motor drive. In the real world, the T90 gave us very little that an A1 fitted with 'Motor Drive MA' couldn't actually do in terms of end result... and any small advantage that it did give came at the expense of the ability to shed the 'Motor Drive MA' and lose a lot of size and weight if required! I know this as I had a pair of T90s when they were in production. Put it this way, I still own the A1 I bought before them - and it still works, and that says it all really.

Yes, the T90 was a nicely designed camera and a stepping stone in terms of design to the AF auto-wind SLRs that soon followed it; but was it as ground-breaking as the A1? In terms of aesthetic design it might be a contender, but in terms of the pioneering introduction of innovative and usable photographic features then it pales into insignificance alongside the A1.

There you go... the Canon A1, the real missing link in the pioneering evolution of the modern electronic SLR camera.
 
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I've ordered a double pack of film. I've got a city break coming up to Riga and want to go light (backpack only), I'm thinking of just shooting Instax and half frame. It will be interesting to see what Instax is like.
I bought my Instax Mini while on holiday last year and really like the results I got. They have a nice look to them, even though they’re slightly lo-fi. It’s grwat for getting photos of the people you’re with because you can all see the results (and hold them in your hands) within seconds. It’s the immediacy of digital on analog film, but because the film is pretty expensive per shot, you don’t tend to do the spray and pray thing that you might with digital.
 

TheBigYin

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Snip:

You've missed the most important link out of that chain above. The Canon A1.
I don't disagree with any of your post - and the reason why i've not really bothered about getting the T90 is that i've got a perfectly good A1.

I was trying in my list of cameras, to keep it as close as possible to what Canon themselves put out as the "pro" models - F1, T90 and the EOS-1, but as pro-level cameras used to be in production unchanged for far longer than today, I picked a couple of intermediary cameras from the camera museum, just to show how case design was moving in the underlying years.

A1 was a milestone camera by any measure of things, and I'll be mortified if anything goes wrong with mine.
 

excalibur2

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All the much-hyped T90 did was update the features of an A1, put them in a curvy polycarbonate case, add some additional metering and viewfinder display features and an LCD, and stick on a built in motor drive. In the real world, the T90 gave us very little that an A1 fitted with 'Motor Drive MA' couldn't actually do in terms of end result
Well because people are scared of the possible\definite shutter problems of the T90 it's probably cheaper to get the T90 than the A1 with motor drive, so why not have the next generation (y)and there are technological differences comparing A1 and T90 as I have both.......but even with the technological advances of cameras (which I like), I still enjoy taking shots now and again with basic cameras Pentax S3 or Minolta SRT101 etc
erm anyone for a 61mp digi camera o_O...well I don't care if it surpasses my RB67.
 
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Snip:

You've missed the most important link out of that chain above. The Canon A1.

That's the first mainstream production SLR that gave the world of photography the 5 modes to which it's become so accustomed: Programme (stick it on P and let the camera work out the aperture and shutter speed), Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority, Manual and Stopped Down AE. If you don't believe me, then find me a popular top-quality modern DSLR that doesn't have PASM and stopped down AE.

Oh, then there's the digital LED numerical readout display of the shutter speed and aperture info at the bottom of the viewfinder… another feature of the A1 that's still in use today.

All the much-hyped T90 did was update the features of an A1, put them in a curvy polycarbonate case, add some additional metering and viewfinder display features and an LCD, and stick on a built in motor drive. In the real world, the T90 gave us very little that an A1 fitted with 'Motor Drive MA' couldn't actually do in terms of end result... and any small advantage that it did give came at the expense of the ability to shed the 'Motor Drive MA' and lose a lot of size and weight if required! I know this as I had a pair of T90s when they were in production. Put it this way, I still own the A1 I bought before them - and it still works, and that says it all really.

Yes, the T90 was a nicely designed camera and a stepping stone in terms of design to the AF auto-wind SLRs that soon followed it; but was it as ground-breaking as the A1? In terms of aesthetic design it might be a contender, but in terms of the pioneering introduction of innovative and usable photographic features then it pales into insignificance alongside the A1.

There you go... the Canon A1, the real missing link in the pioneering evolution of the modern electronic SLR camera.
While I agree that the A1 is a good camera, I think you're glossing over some of those features of the T90 ... spot metering, multi-spot, selectable centre-weighted options, safety shift ... while they're certainly "additional metering ... features", they're significant additions. Otherwise you could make the same argument comparing the T90 to a Box Brownie - it has a shutter that allows light to reach a film plane so it's the same, apart from some additional features.

I had an A1, it developed shutter squeak twice (the second time probably through lack of use). My T90 has been used and abused by me for 20 years* and while it needed maintenance for the 'EEE' fault a few years back (lack of use again), it's been solid ever since (and I'd struggle to find a camera that wouldn't need a service in that time). It's also a lot easier to use than I found my A1 to be.

IMO the T90 might not have showcased the combination of features in one body that the A1 did but it put them and more into a form that's still imitated by new cameras today. It was the end of the FD line, one of the finest manual focus cameras ever made, it's incredibly rugged and provided a blueprint for future SLR development. That makes it worthy as a classic.

As an aside, does this conversation remind anyone else of the scene in Life Of Brian where they're discussing the Romans? "But what has the T90 ever done for us?" :wacky:







* It really has been 20 years this year, I bought it before going to work in Sydney for 6 months in 1999. Blimey, I feel old now. I should probably take it out and shoot a few rolls as an anniversary celebration.
 
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While I agree that the A1 is a good camera, I think you're glossing over some of those features of the T90 ... spot metering, multi-spot, selectable centre-weighted options, safety shift ... while they're certainly "additional metering ... features", they're significant additions. Otherwise you could make the same argument comparing the T90 to a Box Brownie - it has a shutter that allows light to reach a film plane so it's the same, apart from some additional features.

I had an A1, it developed shutter squeak twice (the second time probably through lack of use). My T90 has been used and abused by me for 20 years* and while it needed maintenance for the 'EEE' fault a few years back (lack of use again), it's been solid ever since (and I'd struggle to find a camera that wouldn't need a service in that time). It's also a lot easier to use than I found my A1 to be.

IMO the T90 might not have showcased the combination of features in one body that the A1 did but it put them and more into a form that's still imitated by new cameras today. It was the end of the FD line, one of the finest manual focus cameras ever made, it's incredibly rugged and provided a blueprint for future SLR development. That makes it worthy as a classic.

As an aside, does this conversation remind anyone else of the scene in Life Of Brian where they're discussing the Romans? "But what has the T90 ever done for us?" :wacky:







* It really has been 20 years this year, I bought it before going to work in Sydney for 6 months in 1999. Blimey, I feel old now. I should probably take it out and shoot a few rolls as an anniversary celebration.
I didn't say the T90 wasn't a good camera in its day, or that it didn't innovate in terms of design. However, to leave the Canon A1 out of the SLR camera (of any make) equivalent of the Ascent of Man drawing, would be like omitting the stage where man first walked upright in terms of evolutionary importance.

Whilst the design principles of the upper camera layout of the T90 (a selection dial and LCD display) eventually become the norm on the SLRs and DSLRs that followed, the A1's introduction of PASM (or P,AV,TV,M in Canon speak) combined with an alphanumeric LED display at the bottom of the viewfinder have got to be more significant developments in terms of taking photographs, rather than camera design.

The availability of the 'P' (programme) mode opened up the hobby of SLR photography to a whole new market; those who had previously been put off by the technical aspects of knowing when to use depth of field and shutter speed to their best. Now they could buy a top-notch camera and use it on Programme mode and get good looking results, then explore and learn the rest if they felt the need. No wonder the A1 was a best seller, it could do the lot, and everyone from a well-heeled aspiring beginner to an experienced prosumer could enjoy using one.

I doubt the T90 had the same impact on photography, or appealed to such a wide audience. Not only was the A1 an amazing leap forward in technology, it helped to democratise SLR photography, providing you had the £240 or so needed to buy one!
 
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I doubt the T90 had the same impact on photography, or appealed to such a wide audience.
Agreed, not helped by it only being available for a couple of years (and only made during 1986 if I remember correctly) and marketed as a (semi-)professional camera.

While the A1 brought together a lot of things, however, it did it in an old form factor. The T90 made nearly everything available with a button press and a dial in a brand new ergonomic package, making it a much more significant step forward in usability. I don't think you can argue that it didn't have the same impact on photography or appeal to a wide audience when nearly every SLR produced since follows the same design cues.
 
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I don't think you can argue that it didn't have the same impact on photography or appeal to a wide audience when nearly every SLR produced since follows the same design cues.
Ah, the direct versus indirect impact argument. I'm not falling for that one! ;)

Besides, the A1 doesn't look like a big plastic Heffalump! :giggle:

Joking aside, that's actually the reason I've not got a T90 in my collection; I'd never use it. If I was going to lug something that weight and size around I could take an EOS-3 and not worry about focusing, have a much better metering system and 45 eye-controlled AF points. For the times I want the manual FD lens experience I have an A1 and an AV1, and they're small and light. The T90 was an innovative design in its day, but without AF I don't think it makes too much sense as a usable classic camera these days. Add to that the perishing rubber contaminated sticky shutter, sticky shutter release magnet and failing internal battery issues, and its appeal diminishes further. At least the A-series kennel-cough and perishing light seals are a relatively cheap and available fix.
 
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Picked up an XA1 for £1. Its not the best point and shoot, but it had a fully working light meter, it had the flash unit and it was working and only needed new light seals. As holiday cameras go this is a solid choice, as I can load in a roll of Kodak Ultra Max and not have to worry about batteries or chargers, although I'm not sure if it will beat out my Trip 35. I'll have to see which has the better looking images. IMG_20190803_165618.jpg
 
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Having decided to give the proposed F+C meet at Astle Park a miss due to poor weather forecast headed out to the car boots this morning.

First one rained off, second very quiet but picked up a stack of CR123A batteries and a monopod before it started raining there too. Headed out of Cheshire into Hanley (Stoke-on-Trent) in time for the 8am start of selling, clouds closing in and sitting in a crate as the first rain started falling another T90 :canon:, no lens but with battery tray and in good cosmetic order. !! Could not leave it to its watery fate, so parted with a tenner. Back home pulled the 1600 ISO Fujifilm out (in dark bag, so we shall see what the first 8ish shots were). Batteries gave an EEE error. :grumpy:

Oh well - googled fixes which included hitting onto a carpeted floor :bat: and one that sounded much more likely :wideyed:.

Applying strong magnet to the mirror/shutter release solenoid to remagnetise it. 5 screws and rescue of the back catch spring later, applied very strong stack of neodymium magnets to solenoid and even switched off it started firing !!! :banana: Switched on battery and all was well.


So in darts terms 2 x T90 = One hundred and eighty !!
 
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Asha

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googled fixes which included hitting onto a carpeted floor :bat:
(y).....It's actually quite an effective method as a final approach to getting an old camera to wake up.

Doesn't seem to work so well with togs though as i found out when i tried it on myself! :LOL::LOL:
 
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excalibur2

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Having decided to give the proposed F+C meet at Astle Park a miss due to poor weather forecast headed out to the car boots this morning.

First one rained off, second very quiet but picked up a stack of CR123A batteries and a monopod before it started raining there too. Headed out of Cheshire into Hanley (Stoke-on-Trent) in time for the 8am start of selling, clouds closing in and sitting in a crate as the first rain started falling another T90 :canon:, no lens but with battery tray and in good cosmetic order. !! Could not leave it to its watery fate, so parted with a tenner. Back home pulled the 1600 ISO Fujifilm out (in dark bag, so we shall see what the first 8ish shots were). Batteries gave an EEE error. :grumpy:

Oh well - googled fixes which included hitting onto a carpeted floor :bat: and one that sounded much more likely :wideyed:.

Applying strong magnet to the mirror/shutter release solenoid to remagnetise it. 5 screws and rescue of the back catch spring later, applied very strong stack of neodymium magnets to solenoid and even switched off it started firing !!! :banana: Switched on battery and all was well.


So in darts terms 2 x T90 = One hundred and eighty !!
One of the hobbies\pleasures in life (well for me) is to buy something for peanuts and to get it working.........well done, the T90 is an excellent camera but you have to prove you completely love Canon by buying a T70 o_O ;)
 

RaglanSurf

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So, true to form, Brian's 10,000th post was about BOTH the T90 and the T70!!! :)
Brilliant, if he'd only managed to mention the moon it would have been a clean sweep!
 
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One of the hobbies\pleasures in life (well for me) is to buy something for peanuts and to get it working.........well done, the T90 is an excellent camera but you have to prove you completely love Canon by buying a T70 o_O ;)
I have all the T's except a 60 - the 80 won't autofocus though.
 
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Looks like we made the right decision to give the steam rally a miss, you got a camera and some accessories for what you'd have probably spent there. :)
 
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The T80 never did really, even when new. :p
and the AF lenses have really useless manual focus ergonomics - I see them heading to e-bay as Spares and Repairs
 
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There was a camera shop in Croydon (not Mr. CAD) who had one in - at the time I really wanted a T90 but financially it was impossible, but this was supposed to have some of the features but cheaper and the idea of AF really appealed, so I asked for a try. :LOL:
 
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Applying strong magnet to the mirror/shutter release solenoid to remagnetise it. 5 screws and rescue of the back catch spring later, applied very strong stack of neodymium magnets to solenoid and even switched off it started firing !!! :banana: Switched on battery and all was well.
Learning point - magnetising the T90 solenoid using the pole that caused it to fire repeatedly when switched off does not last. You have to use the other pole that only causes it to fire when you remove the magnet. Then with magnet in place fire the shutter many times (in effect moving the solenoid core in the field to magenetise it). So now testing it every day or two before I put the front back on AGAIN.

Now if fixing the T80 was as simple ........
 
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Learning point - magnetising the T90 solenoid using the pole that caused it to fire repeatedly when switched off does not last. You have to use the other pole that only causes it to fire when you remove the magnet. Then with magnet in place fire the shutter many times (in effect moving the solenoid core in the field to magenetise it). So now testing it every day or two before I put the front back on AGAIN.

Now if fixing the T80 was as simple ........
You don't get problems like that with a Canon A1, and when it eventually does require a CLA it lets you know by making a gentile little cough to get your attention. An altogether more refined camera! ;)
 
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You don't get problems like that with a Canon A1, and when it eventually does require a CLA it lets you know by making a gentile little cough to get your attention. An altogether more refined camera! ;)
Must admit at 4.5 frames a second on high speed the T90 does sound like its Russian Battle Tank namesake. One day I may press the go button with a film in it - all 8 seconds worth of shots.
 
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All our local charity shops now seem to put photo gear on the bay rather than in the shop
That's my impression as well.
I think that there's more chance of finding gear in the shops of small independent charities than the national chains. The only exception round here has been Macmillan (and then the prices are unrealistic compared to eBay)
 
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I always marvel at the charity shop finds that people present; I don't think I have ever picked up any photographic equipment from a charity shop. That's across the country, and in thrift stores in other countries as well. I must have looked at hundreds of third party teleconverters and plastic toy cameras....
 
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The T90 remagnetisation saga continues. All back together and working. Tested after 1 day, 3 days, 5 days, 8 days so as to allow any wearing off of effects to show. If anyone else feels like they want a challenge I have posted the T90 Service Manual to archive.org https://archive.org/details/t90service - Some tips 1) Use JIS screwdrivers 2) Work on a large white bath sheet - those springs go for miles 3) Use magnetic tray for holding screws and springs 4) On page 1 read what it says about part 19 - do not remove screws only loosen - getting that back together took longest !
 
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excalibur2

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I always marvel at the charity shop finds that people present; I don't think I have ever picked up any photographic equipment from a charity shop. That's across the country, and in thrift stores in other countries as well. I must have looked at hundreds of third party teleconverters and plastic toy cameras....
Same here except a few years ago I asked in a charity shop any camera stuff? And he said go to the back of the shop there are boxes of stuff that I haven't sorted thru' yet. Well stacks of AF cameras without lenses and there might have been some top spec ones, but at the time was only interested in MF cameras and couldn't find a decent one:rolleyes:
 
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I've not found any film camera bargains in a charity shop, but I did find a Fuji Finepix S2000 HD digital 10mp digital camera with 15x optical zoom lens (28 to 400 35mm equivalent) in full working order for £15.99. A nice, cheap, camera for work (at that price if I drop it or drown it then it doesn't really matter!), with a very handy zoom range. Sorry to drop the D-word bombshell in the F&C section, but it goes to show there are some photographic bargains to be had... but remember, it's only a bargain if you need it. :)
 
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