How to combat saturation and loss of details

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Hi,

It's too late for this photo, but I'd like to know two things.
1) how to take the picture and recognise the sizes its too saturated and has a loss of details (ie red in petals)
2) in post processing what steps can be taken to try and recover a bit of detail in the flowers. (in this case red has really blown)

I am using ufraw and gimp to process

L1007050 by Katia & Vince, on Flickr
Leica typ 240 mp - voigtlander 28mm f2 lens

(plus 3 - how to reduce chromatic abrasion - this lens suffers ocassionally with the contrast differences - minor.. but creeping in with light stonework in bright sunshine)
 
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Ned
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Quite simple, shoot in raw and adjust the red channel; most modern software has CA removal tools that work very well.

I would suggest getting some half decent software; why spend all that money on a Leica and then scupper its capability with crappy software?
 
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John
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I'd agree with getting decent software. I'd opt for Lightroom ( the classic version). You've got controls to adjust saturation and detail. I suspect that simply importing your images into lightroom will give you much better result without any adjustments. You can download a trial, to see what it can do, then go for the Photographers monthly plan which is still under £10.00 month
 
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Toni
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As said, shoot & save in RAW & then process with software that can manipulate individual colours to reduce the saturation (not necessarily Lightroom).

Chromatic aberration is also usually neutralised with such a processing package.
 
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Trevor
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Not sure what camera you use, but if available, the separate RGB channels histogram will help identify if a particular channel is overexposed.
 
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Steven
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Not sure what camera you use, but if available, the separate RGB channels histogram will help identify if a particular channel is overexposed.
This^^... a raw file isn't going to recover blown reds any better than it will recover blown highlights (whites). Once the detail is lost/clipped, there's nothing you can do to recover it... it doesn't exist.
You can reduce CA by stopping down for greater DOFocus at the sensor plane, but that changes the image/feel. You can try to avoid bright backlighting (sky in this case), but that's not always feasible. Or you can try fixing it in post, but that just makes it a different color so it blends in better.
 
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Trevor
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I’m suggesting that a check can help decide if a further, adjusted exposure is required - no more, no less and in response to point 1 raised by the op!
 
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What you need to do is find out what setting you have on the camera that has caused the over saturation in the first place, you will not get the detail back in the photographs flowers whatever software you use, I guess you have the camera set to excess colour saturation, such as vivid, reset to normal Image1.jpg
 
OP
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Thanks for the replies.
As to the one about scuppering via not buying .... Well hmm a tenner a month, but only worthwhile if I were to use all the time... I don't. If it was still available as a one off at a reasonable amount I might buy it.

I've liked the two about the lower aperture. I think I might have shot with f2 and on that sunny day, perhaps it maxed out 1/4000 at iso 200. Sounds right.
As you said, you lose the feel I think with the higher f# but at least I'd have something to play with in post. I always shoot raw and low jpg since d300 nikon.

I am pretty sure the camera is still on default for vivid settings, but I will check and perhaps bland it down a bit.

Thank you for the advices :)
 
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I am pretty sure the camera is still on default for vivid settings, but I will check and perhaps bland it down a bit.
Some kind of 'normal' is a good place to start - you can always add more gaudiness, but it's harder to take it away as we see here.
 
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Hi @ecniv

I had a look and unlike every other leading brand Leica in their wisdom do not include even the most basic pp software but do recommend (?) Adobe as stated on the offer of 3 months free:-

"Create images as rich as your imagination.
From image file to finished picture – after purchase of any Leica digital camera you have 30 days to claim the 3 month Adobe Creative Cloud Photography plan membership.

Try out the incredible features of the world’s leading professional creative tools such as Adobe Photoshop Lightroom, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Classic and Adobe Photoshop and get 20GB of cloud storage for your pictures – now you can edit, organize, store, and share your full-resolution images from anywhere. It’s the future of photography, here today."

But I do find it unusual that similar to someone buying a premium lens and attaching a cheap filter, you are relying on free software that apparently does not have the tools to get best out of the Leica M files?
 
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droj
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Irrespective of any original photographic vision, there are two stages to image making - first the exposure and second, its processing.

Taking some control over the camera might be the first step, and thereafter taking some control over its product might be the second.

The medium has great potential (evidenced by its history) - how far do you want to engage with it? I don't mean just technically (on its own that's just for nerds, right?), but as an expression of your being that's communicable to others.

A snapshot can be a great photograph, if it gets lucky. An over-engineered photograph can be a sterile exposition. Each of us has to find a path through all of this (and more) ...
 
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@Boxbrownie... fine if you want to keep paying after for use of software... but for the last three years I havent been taking pictures. So would have lost a bit. Looked at on1 and phase 1 as well... can buy but is very steep for a one off... Or bleed you at a higher rate than adobe. I dont mind paying for the software but renting it...?

I'll consider it and alternatives, just wanted something good for around say max 100 euro, one off payment. Like it used to be...

@droj yeah I do want to take more control over the pictures and with the leica it is that. Got to try to remember settings, light, which works best with which lens etc. Still getting used to the camera and have a few shaky pictures. Getting to know the limitations and best settings etc. Those with the blown colours were on a really sunny day and I think probably a low f# (f2 may be) Perhaps it was that. Needed to be a higher f# or using some darker glass in front to cut the light... Things to think about. Thanks :)
 
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There's also Skylum Luminar, possibly worth a look.

There’s also Topaz Studio 2 on offer - last day today. Only just released so they still seem to be adding some functionality.
Out of interest, do you use Topaz? I had a look at their site, but their example photos rather made me want to run the other way. Just wondered if it was good.
 

LongLensPhotography

Th..th..that's all folks!
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First of all premium camera like leica and alpha level RAW processor don't really mix. I do want to encourage open source and all that but at some point you have to just get the mature tools.

There is not much to it to get going. Shoot in RAW, don't overexpose (which is the case in example above) and use the most neutral profile to start developing images. Then add contrast and saturation as required. If web export is the end destination, bare in mind sRGB profile almost can't display ANY RED colour so you will likely need to desaturate those bits. For printing of course that is no longer such a major limitation.

P.S. The shot is blown out, has far too much saturation and contrast.
 
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John
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Quite simple, shoot in raw and adjust the red channel; most modern software has CA removal tools that work very well.

I would suggest getting some half decent software; why spend all that money on a Leica and then scupper its capability with crappy software?
If he is using UFRaw then he is shooting in Raw. UFRaw is an excellent program (unfortunately not longer supported by its author), just because it is free doesn't mean it is poor spec. It offers quite a bit that Lightroom and Adobe ACR do not offer
 
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but at some point you have to just get the mature tools.
{Begin Rant} For example the Linux that probably runs the computer this site is served from. Perhaps the Nginx or Apache which almost certainly hosts this website. But as we know, open source tools simply aren't reliable or just plain good enough. If they were, they'd run super computers with them. Oh wait a minute, that's just what they do in almost every case. {End Rant}

:tumbleweed:
 
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{Begin Rant} For example the Linux that probably runs the computer this site is served from. Perhaps the Nginx or Apache which almost certainly hosts this website. But as we know, open source tools simply aren't reliable or just plain good enough. If they were, they'd run super computers with them. Oh wait a minute, that's just what they do in almost every case. {End Rant}

:tumbleweed:
There is a prevalent idea that if something sells a lot it must be good. I used Linux, UFRaw and Gimp for many years and I was frequently told I should use Windows and Photoshop because they are the market leaders. Well, Ford were the market leaders in car manufacturing for many years, but people still drove Rolls, Porches, BMWs, Mercedes etc if they could afford to. Being market leaders merely meant that Fords were cheap and easily available. They were still crap (which is why the Japanese are now the market leaders).
 
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There's also Skylum Luminar, possibly worth a look.

Out of interest, do you use Topaz? I had a look at their site, but their example photos rather made me want to run the other way. Just wondered if it was good.
I think I'm becoming a software junky in my mission to get away from Lightroom :rolleyes: I took advantage of the recent offer on Topaz. I like that they don't charge for upgrades - they seem quite customer friendly.

I have had a little play but not thoroughly tested. It has a lot of sliders similar to Lightroom but also works with layers. It's much more user friendly than photoshop. It has 'looks' (like presets) which can be a bit extreme - and a little more like On1 in some ways, but you don't have to 'overcook' the images.
They are still adding to it - crop and histogram have been added since I purchased it.

At the moment I'm so embedded in a Lightroom workflow that that is what is holding me back from changing. There is no catalog facility - I thought I didn't need a catalog system but perhaps I do.... so the jury is still out...

I haven't tried Luminar
 
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Thanks for that.

I'm something of an On1 fan, but really don't like the output as a standalone application with this version: on export the images either seem to suck with moderate levels of compression, or come out huge. LR 5.7 is still my go-to development and DAM application and that's likely to continue for several years yet. I've been tempted by Capture1 and the free version for Sony, but not enough to even bother to install it. I've also abandoned DXO because neither of the versions I previously had support the A7III.
 
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Thanks for that.

I'm something of an On1 fan, but really don't like the output as a standalone application with this version: on export the images either seem to suck with moderate levels of compression, or come out huge. LR 5.7 is still my go-to development and DAM application and that's likely to continue for several years yet. I've been tempted by Capture1 and the free version for Sony, but not enough to even bother to install it. I've also abandoned DXO because neither of the versions I previously had support the A7III.
Topaz Studio2 is not yet supporting the raw files from my Canon R. I’ve been in touch with them with a sample file. They’re working on it. Not sure I’d have jumped in if I’d realised.
 

LongLensPhotography

Th..th..that's all folks!
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{Begin Rant} For example the Linux that probably runs the computer this site is served from. Perhaps the Nginx or Apache which almost certainly hosts this website. But as we know, open source tools simply aren't reliable or just plain good enough. If they were, they'd run super computers with them. Oh wait a minute, that's just what they do in almost every case. {End Rant}

:tumbleweed:
Linux and server side is more than good enough. Its the desktop side on top that admittedly got worse and worse in the last 10 years.

Unless you are a developer just using it won't make any difference, unless of course you are willing to make a very notable financial contribution... This is the state of the things unfortunately. In the mean time you may either edit your images on something developed to be the best, or open source but barely working and 15 years+ behind.
 
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In the mean time you may either edit your images on something developed to be the best, or open source but barely working and 15 years+ behind.
That's an opinion I just can't agree with because the GIMP does as much as I need in a heavy duty editor. Let's just agree that our experience and expectations are different and move on.
 

LongLensPhotography

Th..th..that's all folks!
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That's an opinion I just can't agree with because the GIMP does as much as I need in a heavy duty editor. Let's just agree that our experience and expectations are different and move on.
Gimp is a solid base but lacks many many obvious and even basic features like a working healing brush and most layer blending modes. I had to use a few times instead of ps so I clearly noticed it's missing too much to polish and blend a couple of images. All you have is basic clone. Too bad if this doesn't work.
 
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Gimp is a solid base but lacks many many obvious and even basic features like a working healing brush and most layer blending modes.
Of course the advantage of the GIMP is that if you want to add something to it you can do so. As I've said it does what I want and I take it that what you have does what you want.
 
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Hi, thanks for the comments and observations.
Gimp isnt an issue, I will continue using it. My main problem was the conversion from raw.
The UFRaw was blown and has been on some others. Some due to my playing with the settings and obviously getting it wrong. Over exposure and perhaps vivid setting that isnt required. I dont mind the simple processing, so I might put the settings to the lowest on the next lot.

I am tempted to get lightroom as for years people have been using it, and looks good. But I didnt want the continued payments... Maybe I will try for a month or two and see if I get on with it. I dont suppose there is a laptop/desktop version which is buy once still available...? I assume they want to milk as much money as possible out of people.... But. Is it worth it?

So the options are :
On1 (80usd)
Lightroom (10euro per month)
Capture one pro (1k+usd)
Topaz (one off 100usd)

Gonna have to try it and see I guess... I'll let you guys and gals know what happens :)
 
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droj
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Dunno where the 1k usd for C1pro comes from? I thought that it was about £270 gbp?

Have you checked out DxO Photolab (2)? Pretty sweet stuff.

But all these things have a GUI and learning curve that's different to a degree. And though they can be trialled for a period, commitment kicks in at some point.

Whilst the main Adobe business model has migrated to being subscription-based, older, pre-owned versions can be bought legitimately and have their licences transferred via Adobe. But one might have to be wary about finding a legitimate seller ...

And the raw files from newer cameras might not be natively recognised by more dated software, and would need a workaround such as conversion (via Adobe's free DNG converter) to .dng before processing ... which is quick and easy, and doesn't compromise quality, but is a small extra step that seems to deter those rampant consumers of the 'me - now' generation who feel that convenience is their right ...
 
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Graham
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So the options are :
On1 (80usd)
Lightroom (10euro per month)
Capture one pro (1k+usd)
Topaz (one off 100usd)

Gonna have to try it and see I guess... I'll let you guys and gals know what happens :)
Capture One, brings out a new version every year, so if you are someone that needs or wants to upgrade, it works out an expensive choice, more expensive than the sub for LR+PS. Personally, I prefer C1 to Lightroom (and then also pay the adobe sub to get PS).

Topaz studio isn't meant to be a general purpose raw developer and is really aimed at users who want to use the "creative"image manipulation tools, even though it does offer some tools useful for normal editing especially as a plugin for Photoshop. Comments on forums suggest the raw processing isn't that good, I occasionally use it, but only as a plugin and have not processed any raw files.

No experience of ON1.

RawTherapee and Darktable, are both open source and have excellent reputations for high quality raw processing. I haven't used either of them but Raw Therapee seems highly thought of by some C1 and LR users, who seem to think its gives better quality results than these top of the tree raw processors but at the expense of convenience.
 
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