Tutorial How to develop your first B&W film.

robhooley167 said:
Wow that's a lot! I only do 15 seconds of gentle agitation every 3 minutes when I'm not stand devving
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It's not an unreasonable amount, and it's the instruction given by Ilford in their data sheets. Kodak gives similar recommendations - in fact, the data sheet for T-Max Developer says:

Provide initial agitation of 5 to 7 inversion cycles in 5 seconds, i.e. extend your arm and vigorously twist your wrist 180 degrees as shown below. Then repeat this agitation procedure at 30-second intervals for the rest of the development time.
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I'm surprised you are getting surge marks with that combination - I'd maybe try slightly less agitation, but you are following Ilford's instructions to the book. Might be worth firing an email to them and asking if they could suggest any reason why, their customer service is known for being very helpful.
 
Personally I don't think it's to do with the agitation as much as the agitation combined with the use of a single reel in a 2 reel tank. I suspect that you didn't fit something to stop the spiral moving on the centre column. If you agitated with excessive force you could have caused the spiral to ride up the column thus giving the developer a draining action across the sprocket holes due to the lack of sufficient chemicals in the tank.

The addition of oxygen caused by over agitation is a red herring as all that would have done is reduce the activity of the developer possibly causing slightly underveloped images.

If you want to develop a single roll in a 2 roll tank, put the other spiral in on top and use a bit more developer than stated, 350ml or more for one roll and 500ml for both.

If I am hand agitating film (rare these days as I either rotary process or use semi-stand) I give 30 seconds of continuous agitation followed by 3 gentle agitations a minute afterwards until the end of the processing time, I also give the tank 2 raps on the counter after the inversions to dislodge any air bubbles that may have formed.

Keep going, you will evenually find something that suits you well (anyone for coffee?).
 
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EdBray said:
Personally I don't think it's to do with the agitation as much as the agitation combined with the use of a single reel in a 2 reel tank. I suspect that you didn't fit something to stop the spiral moving on the centre column. If you agitated with excessive force you could have caused the spiral to ride up the column thus giving the developer a draining action across the sprocket holes due to the lack of sufficient chemicals in the tank.
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My biggest annoyance with the Paterson Super System 4 tanks is how they don't supply the clip that held the reel in place, like they had with the old System 4 tanks. I use a thick rubber band to ensure that the reel doesn't move now, but I was getting some rolls where there was underdevelopment of the bottom part of the roll because the reel was riding up the centre spool.
 
freecom2 said:
My biggest annoyance with the Paterson Super System 4 tanks is how they don't supply the clip that held the reel in place, like they had with the old System 4 tanks. I use a thick rubber band to ensure that the reel doesn't move now, but I was getting some rolls where there was underdevelopment of the bottom part of the roll because the reel was riding up the centre spool.
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Are you sure that's the right way around :thinking:
 
EdBray said:
Are you sure that's the right way around :thinking:
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Sorry, that should be "bottom part of the roll when sideways in the developing tank", so the edge of the film - the way I always put it on the reel, means the left edge. We are talking medium format, of course.
 
Thanks for all the helpful replies, certainly a lot to think about. When I devved it I had the film in the bottom spiral and put the empty one on top. I'm erring on the side of a too rigorous agitation. Going to try another tonight a bit gentler.
 
So I just hung up my first home devved roll of Tri-X. Firstly, it was the easiest of the five I have done to get on the reel. No curl, no sticking, a joy! Secondly, I tried agitating with the swirly stick thing and it seems to have worked!! Thirdly, the negs look great :)

One thing though, the rolls of this film I have had devved at the lab have all had a purple tint but mine don't. Is this to do with the developer used maybe? I used DDX. When I did a roll of TMAX the developer came out purpley but when I dumped the DDX it came out of the tank clear. I'm sure it's nothing to worry about I'm just curious that's all :)
 
Anti-halation backing. What lab did you use? A proper process should completely rid the film of the purple backing. It's the same thing that turns developer bright blue when developing some of the Fomapan films (in 120, Fomapan 100).

T-Max is notorious for it as well - adequate washing should remove it.
 
freecom2 said:
Anti-halation backing. What lab did you use? A proper process should completely rid the film of the purple backing. It's the same thing that turns developer bright blue when developing some of the Fomapan films (in 120, Fomapan 100).

T-Max is notorious for it as well - adequate washing should remove it.
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Thanks for the speedy reply. That's good info to know. The lab used was the only traditional one in town called Moorfields Photographic. They are generally very good. When I did my Tmax it was washed for fifteen minutes. I washed th Tri X for the same amount of time.
 
norters said:
Thanks for the speedy reply. That's good info to know. The lab used was the only traditional one in town called Moorfields Photographic. They are generally very good. When I did my Tmax it was washed for fifteen minutes. I washed th Tri X for the same amount of time.
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Any good lab should instantly recognise inadequate washing/retained anti-halation backing and seek to re wash thoroughly. Your 15 minutes should be more than adequate - any tinge is often cleared in the developer stage, like you saw with T-Max, but sometimes needs additional clearing with at the final washing stage. I use the Ilford method of washing and I don't have any purple tinge on my Kodak films.
 
EdBray said:
If you want to develop a single roll in a 2 roll tank, put the other spiral in on top and use a bit more developer than stated, 350ml or more for one roll and 500ml for both.
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Think you meant to say 600ml rather than 500ml. The minimum level per spiral for 35mm film in the Paterson tanks is 290ml.

The minimum for a single 120 film is 500ml.
 
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Darkroom said:
Think you meant to say 600ml rather than 500ml. The minimum level per spiral for 35mm film in the Paterson tanks is 290ml.

The minimum for a single 120 film is 500ml.
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Actually, he probably meant 700ml, if he was factoring in 60ml additional developer fluid per roll? Good spot.
 
A quick question - I have a brand-new Paterson tank. Every time I do inversions when developing, the rubber lid leaks a bit. Is this normal? I've tightened everything I can think to tighten - I think it's leaking out through the little turny spindle. Have I missed something?
 
mothdust said:
A quick question - I have a brand-new Paterson tank. Every time I do inversions when developing, the rubber lid leaks a bit. Is this normal? I've tightened everything I can think to tighten - I think it's leaking out through the little turny spindle. Have I missed something?
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I have about 5 of them, only one leaked so I've taken the reels out and re-used them.
 
The turny spindle doesn't seem to lock in place, I'm pretty sure that's where it's leaking from. Is it meant to?
 
mothdust said:
The turny spindle doesn't seem to lock in place, I'm pretty sure that's where it's leaking from. Is it meant to?
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The centre column? That just sits, no tightening.

I've got a few Paterson Super System 4 tanks and none of them leak much - although I've heard countless times about a certain amount of leakage when using them. Always use slightly more than the recommended fluid amounts to account for leakage and not being able to recover all the volume you use.
 
Sorry, it's not a Paterson, it's an AP tank, derp. Not the centre column, the little peg that goes into the lid and into the centre column. If they all leak, I'm not that bothered.
 
I have read through this thread developing first B/W film.
I am going to develope B/W film 120 and 5x4 Ilford Pan F in a recently
purchased Jobo processor basic none lift model.
I will be useing Ilford chemicales.
Can anyone give me the Temperature and individual Times for Developing,Stop, Fix and Wash.
I have read that the stop wash stops the developer instantly if I use a water vinegar
solution instead, does this also work instantly.?
How long should be taken from times when emtying and refilling the tank from developing to stop to fix etc.
Any other top tips will be most appreciated.
Many thanks.
 
Albi said:
I have read through this thread developing first B/W film.
I am going to develope B/W film 120 and 5x4 Ilford Pan F in a recently purchased Jobo processor basic none lift model. You should enjoy the experience.

I will be useing Ilford chemicals. What ones?

Can anyone give me the Temperature and individual Times for Developing,Stop, Fix and Wash. (Depends on the Developer, Film, Process Type and Temperature)

I have read that the stop wash stops the developer instantly if I use a water vinegar solution instead, does this also work instantly.? Depends on the strength of the mix, Developer is Alkaline, adding an Acid stops the process.

How long should be taken from times when emtying and refilling the tank from developing to stop to fix etc. Include them in your timings, if the time was for 6 minutes then start emptying the tank at 5.5 minutes.

Any other top tips will be most appreciated. Try to stick with a type of film and developer until you have it sussed then experiment if you want to. Trying to change too many variables at one time will just end up in frustration and poor results.

Many thanks. That's okay!
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i just got my first boxes of 5x4 film and on the development sticker there is mention of a meter setting. There's quite a difference in dev times in the two columns so what does that mean and which one to use. This is Ilford Delta 100 Can i just use the usual dev times / mixtures that i would with MF 6x6 film?

 
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essexash said:
This is Ilford Delta 100 Can i just use the usual dev times / mixtures that i would with MF 6x6 film?
]
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What developer are you using?
 
Meter setting = ISO

EI100 is just standard ISO100
EI200 is if you underexposed the film at a meter reading of ISO200
 
Can film development at the fix stage be over fixed, if so how much extra time is safe
10% - 20% - 50% ?
 
Albi said:
Can film development at the fix stage be over fixed, if so how much extra time is safe
10% - 20% - 50% ?
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No not really, only if the times are excessive
 
Rob Thanks for very fast reply. Collecting chemicles this week to start home deving was going to buy Ilford chemicles but think I will give First Call a go there price seems right.
Anyone used First Call ?
 
Yeah used them a few times, always pretty prompt delivery. I'm still split on their soft-pac bottles I've had a couple leak on me.
 
Have read through this threaad with interest. Have now been bitten by film bug, although getting film processed can be costly!

I am tempted I have to say, with developing own negatives (35mm & 120), and then scanning them. Would need to use our ensuite as a developing room, but seeing as its done in a bag I dont see that being too much of an issue. A few questions...

- Obviously things can go wrong, but overall would you say its fairly easy to process negs (its a bit like following a cooking recipe)?
- Have seen some great reviews on the Epson V500 scanner. How would this compare to getting them scanned by Ilford/AG etc... Are there any cheaper alternatives, or is this going to seriously affect quality?
- What is the typical cost (in terms of chemicals and consumables, excluding initial investment) in processing own 120 & 35mm?
 
cambsno said:
overall would you say its fairly easy to process negs (its a bit like following a cooking recipe)?
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Processing black and white negatives is very easy. Colour C41 is a bit more complex but still easily doable at home by the average person.

All you need to buy is developer (£6) fix (£12) a developing tank (£11) and a changing bag (£20)

http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/paterson-changing-bag-342-p.asp
http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/ap-film-developing-tank--reel-931-p.asp

The develop and fix prices are what I paid on Ebay last time.


Steve.
 
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Developing is fairly easy, as you say follow the recipe and odds are all will be fine. Getting the film on the spiral can be a pain in the whatsits mind.

Professional drum scanners will give you better results, but buy the time you've paid for a few rolls to be scanned at a decent resolution you could have a paid for a v500. The film developing sticky has a spreadsheet which shows roughly what reasonable resolution scanning costs and it really does cost.

A £10 bottle of rodinal will last a long time and can do a lot of film depending how far you dilute it, fixer is also cheap and will do a lot of film. I've never really calculated cost per frame of 120 but its cheap, slide film I did the other day to scare my self and it was about 80p including film and developing but not scanning.
 
steveo_mcg said:
Professional drum scanners will give you better results, but buy the time you've paid for a few rolls to be scanned at a decent resolution you could have a paid for a v500. The film developing sticky has a spreadsheet which shows roughly what reasonable resolution scanning costs and it really does cost.
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Just to be pedantic, when you get your film scanned by a lab your not getting a drum scan (which are the ultimate in scanning quality but big, fiddly and extremely expensive) but you are getting a usually very good scan from a dedicated high end scanner which will blow anything consumer orientated out of the water.
 
When you order one from a lab that has a drum scanner! Usually paying about £15 upwards (most labs charge based on the final size and it can go up to over £100 at some labs for especially big images) a single scan due to the time and effort it takes for each scan (mounting each negative, slide etc in the drum, adding the optical fluid, the scanning time itself, the processing power needed) but you can get over 11,000 dpi scans depending on the which are unsuppased by any other technology and have a hugh density range (want to recover information from a 2 stop underexposed transparency? A drum scans the only way to do it!) and are as sharp as it gets. But obviously there are the downsides of cost (~£8000+ for a 'cheap' new model), size, relative difficulty of use etc.

If you should want something drum scanned then try this place, Joe Cornish uses them for his large format film work and despite the name, they do seem to live up to it and provide fantastic quality at the same time. I've not used them yet or indeed had anything drum scanned but I've heard only good things about them and am seriously considering getting one slide of mine done by them.

http://cheapdrumscanning.com/
 
To those that do scan themselves, what do you use and what is the quality like?
 
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