"I am not a terrorist!", "Photography is not a crime!" - The fightback starts here...

Dune said:
Ive had a quick scan through this thread an no one has pointed out that when your name and address is checked out that is recorded on the police computer. Next time you are stopped for your photography and asked have you had any dealings with the police and you say no. Another check will show that check up but not what for and then your on a hiding to nothing.

Its a simple case of not giving your name and address as we have the right to go about your lawful business with out harressment.
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It only shows up on a #TE check, which is an administrative function more used to ensure that officers are not doing inappropriate checks on the PNC. A #TE check is, in itself, not something that is run very often, and certainly not by officers in the street. Every check must also be accompanied by a "Reason Code", which is typically "01" for a stop in the street, and could mean anything.

The only code that might raise an eyebrow is "05", which means "Investigation of Crime" (among other things), but it would never be used for a stop.

Don't get paranoid about what is recorded on the PNC; its main purpose is to record convictions, cautions and arrests - not intelligence or stops. It is not some uber-machine that records everything, and even its basic operation can bamboozle people. Think of a 1980's DOS operated system, solely with command-line operation (no mouse clicks or helpful windows), and you're on the right lines.
 
Photo Plod said:
Don't get paranoid about what is recorded on the PNC; its main purpose is to record convictions, cautions and arrests - not intelligence or stops.
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No, the intelligence information is kept on a totally separate computer system! Its developed from the card reference draws of old, and is administrated by specific officers (Still no civvies?). Although not just any officer can access information out of it as I understand, only input.
Want to know a suspects known associates, habits and interests any one? Its all there and more, lots more in some cases.

Look we landed on the moon with less power than a "Speccy". Why do you think we have such powerful computers around today? To handle all the intelligence information of course! Nothing to do with games or the latest Adobe rubbish!:cool:
 
Stumpy said:
Look we landed on the moon with less power than a "Speccy". Why do you think we have such powerful computers around today? To handle all the intelligence information of course! Nothing to do with games or the latest Adobe rubbish!:cool:
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We never landed on the moon! The Aliens stopped us after we caught some of them and hid their space ship at Rowell ;)
 
Photo Plod said:
It only shows up on a #TE check, which is an administrative function more used to ensure that officers are not doing inappropriate checks on the PNC. A #TE check is, in itself, not something that is run very often, and certainly not by officers in the street. Every check must also be accompanied by a "Reason Code", which is typically "01" for a stop in the street, and could mean anything.
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Sorry to disapoint you but Ive been on the end of that question. I can remember the copper smiling and saying 'You have recently been checked out by the police and you now lying to me'....

As with everything there is always a bad bunch, he obviously wanted to cause me some hassle. The problem is that the honest people always seem to be abused by this bunch. Pity theres no recourse for poor/bad policing like you have in real life.
 
Dune said:
Sorry to disapoint you but Ive been on the end of that question. I can remember the copper smiling and saying 'You have recently been checked out by the police and you now lying to me'....

As with everything there is always a bad bunch, he obviously wanted to cause me some hassle. The problem is that the honest people always seem to be abused by this bunch. Pity theres no recourse for poor/bad policing like you have in real life.
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Dune you are being paranoid, - could be as simple as his colleague stating 'He was checked last week' having heard your details on the radio. I can't see many reasons why the Police would want to harass the innocent. Policing is by consent in this country. I don't know what was said, by whom, (or in what tone) but if he's asked a question & knows your reply to be mendacious of course suspicion will be aroused. Perhaps he was out of order in some respect, but consider the possibility that so were you, in your 'righteous indignation'. Of course, he may be a megalomaniac, or you may have been guilty of some offence. I doubt we shall find out. Bashing the Police because they had the affront to approach & ask questions is asinine. How dare the officer smile at you ! Clearly he was trying to intimidate. (Or perhaps put you at ease?) I'd go for the former - the Police have little to do & best spend their time persecuting the innocent - especially if they carry a camera. I think that must be in Police training manuals.
 
STOWITBELOW said:
Tell that to Buzz Aldrin - if you dare ! ;)
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I did, and dat's why I have twubble speaking! :D


BTW Aliens haven't visited Earth since they built the Pyramids.......
 
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The biggest argument for Intelligent Life out there is they have had the good sense to avoid the earth when you consider the mess the present incumbents are making of it. :D
 
artyman said:
The biggest argument for Intelligent Life out there is they have had the good sense to avoid the earth when you consider the mess the present incumbents are making of it. :D
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Yes, we always assume aliens will be evil, savage and dangerous. Doesn't seem to occur to us that WE might be the most evil, savage and dangerous beings in the Universe. Would you want to meet us? :LOL:
 
goldenlight said:
Yes, we always assume aliens will be evil, savage and dangerous. Doesn't seem to occur to us that WE might be the most evil, savage and dangerous beings in the Universe. Would you want to meet us? :LOL:
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Well lets hope we never meet anyone - we will either destroy them or them us if the history of exploration the earth is anything to go by
 
Just like many of the police forces and some of the officers around the country are and have been doing since "Maggie's" time!

Which side are you on boys, which side are YOU on?
 
simonw said:
Well lets hope we never meet anyone - we will either destroy them or them us if the history of exploration the earth is anything to go by
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Very true, but I sense we are straying off-topic. Better get back to discussing little blue men rather than little green men before a Mod objects. :D
 
goldenlight said:
Very true, but I sense we are straying off-topic. Better get back to discussing little blue men rather than little green men before a Mod objects. :D
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Talk about off topic...! :)
I personally can't WAIT to be stopped while taking photos as i will definitely NOT be giving my details..and I will have to be arrested... and when they get me back to the station they will no doubt find the printed copy of the email received from my local police media officer that says THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS etc etc>.. together with his phone number.. I'm positively looking forward to it!:cautious:
 
we11ingon said:
Talk about off topic...! :)
I personally can't WAIT to be stopped while taking photos as i will definitely NOT be giving my details..and I will have to be arrested... and when they get me back to the station they will no doubt find the printed copy of the email received from my local police media officer that says THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS etc etc>.. together with his phone number.. I'm positively looking forward to it!:cautious:
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Then they'll de-arrest you and let you walk out of the station. I just hope your car is nearby, or easily accessible at 03:00.
 
we11ingon said:
That's fine just means an even bigger compensation for false arrest!
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Dream on. There have to be some fairly specific circumstances for that to be even considered. An apology via the IPCC is far more likely. Is that really worth wasting your time and being obstructive for?
 
we11ingon said:
Talk about off topic...! :)
I personally can't WAIT to be stopped while taking photos as i will definitely NOT be giving my details..and I will have to be arrested... and when they get me back to the station they will no doubt find the printed copy of the email received from my local police media officer that says THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS etc etc>.. together with his phone number.. I'm positively looking forward to it!:cautious:
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Hopefully the chances of being stopped and searched for taking photographs are becomming less likely. Although I'm more than happy to stand my ground and assert my rights if need be, I would rather not have the confrontation and controversy in the first place. I would much rather have a police force which I feel I can trust, respect and co-operate with if necessary and, although there may well be some way still to go, I do believe we are now heading in the right direction.

There is a time to be critical and a time to recognise when progress is being made. I believe this is the time to encourage that progress. :)
 
clowds said:
i think the message is getting through to the police now we must educate the security guards http://www.amateurphotographer.co.u...ice_has_great_xscape_news_305585.html?aff=rss

the photographer should sue for assault.
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It's not something I really want to wade into more than I have to, but arguably the more appropriate offence would be False Imprisonment.

This also has the added advantage of also being a civil law (Tort), as well as a separate criminal offence. The civil law requires no public authority to prosecute, and victims can sue for compensation. There is also a much lower burden of proof. While I can see complications for a criminal prosecution in this case, I cannot see so many in a civil action brought over this.

I would add that the headline implies that the police are at fault for "quizzing" the photographer, yet it is actually the security guards who are at fault. The extent of his "quizzing" was the officers asking for his details. Perhaps "Photographer Detained by Security Guards has Great XScape" wouldn't have made such an interesting headline?
 
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one would hope the new The protection of freedoms bill which does include scaling back many of the anti terrorist powers, including stop and search will go along way to restoring some common sense
 
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Photo Plod said:
It's not something I really want to wade into more than I have to, but arguably the more appropriate offence would be False Imprisonment.

This also has the added advantage of also being a civil law (Tort), as well as a separate criminal offence. The civil law requires no public authority to prosecute, and victims can sue for compensation. There is also a much lower burden of proof. While I can see complications for a criminal prosecution in this case, I cannot see so many in a civil action brought over this.

I would add that the headline implies that the police are at fault for "quizzing" the photographer, yet it is actually the security guards who are at fault. The extent of his "quizzing" was the officers asking for his details. Perhaps "Photographer Detained by Security Guards has Great XScape" wouldn't have made such an interesting headline?
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I agree that this headline is misleading as it seems the police acted responsibly and in favour of the photographer.

Maybe an even better headline would have been, "Police Rap Security Guards For Exceeding Their Powers In A Public Place."
 
Quote from the Amateur Photographer article:

At the time Cleveland Police told Amateur Photographer that potential terrorist targets include iconic sites, chemical plants, the national infrastructure, aviation and crowded places.

It has recently been confirmed that the national infrastructure is no longer regarded as a potentil target because the Government are already doing an excellent job of destroying it. :D
 
Only just saw this thread and thought i'd share something that happen'd a while ago to me :(

I was out one evening at a bus stop by a main road, with a tripod. trying to see if i could get some good Light trial photos.I'd been out for like 20 minutes. When after looking down at my camera a car stopped on the grass one side of the road. Out came a woman, who ran at me, and shouted and i quote. 'What the Hell are you doing with that Camera Boy!'. Afterwards i then tried to explain that the photos were for personal use, and that i was just there to have some fun using my camera. Afterwards i spent almost 10 minutes showing her the pictures to show here, that a) Her car wasn't visible. B) None of the cars were really visible. C) There were no number plates showing in the Picture. and D) There was no way from any of the photo's that she could be seen,traced or anything else to do with here.

This really annoyed me and i have since been warery of leaving the house with my camera, for fear of being confronted like this again. :( When in my mind i had done nothing wrong.
 
SimonUK said:
Only just saw this thread and thought i'd share something that happen'd a while ago to me :(

I was out one evening at a bus stop by a main road, with a tripod. trying to see if i could get some good Light trial photos.I'd been out for like 20 minutes. When after looking down at my camera a car stopped on the grass one side of the road. Out came a woman, who ran at me, and shouted and i quote. 'What the Hell are you doing with that Camera Boy!'. Afterwards i then tried to explain that the photos were for personal use, and that i was just there to have some fun using my camera. Afterwards i spent almost 10 minutes showing her the pictures to show here, that a) Her car wasn't visible. B) None of the cars were really visible. C) There were no number plates showing in the Picture. and D) There was no way from any of the photo's that she could be seen,traced or anything else to do with here.

This really annoyed me and i have since been warery of leaving the house with my camera, for fear of being confronted like this again. :( When in my mind i had done nothing wrong.
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This is a good point - a lot of this thread has been pointing out police and security guard errors, but the police are starting to be told now how they should better interpret the law. This will eventually feed through to the security guards, as the police tell them to stop wasting time. However, who's gonna reinform the great British public, that photographers aren't an evil? What with paparazzi, terrorists, and all, it's not an impossible leap of imagination for the uneducated masses to see photography as a bad thing.

How can we reeducate the public who've been fed this tripe by our wonderful tabloids?

Sent from my iPhone using TP Forums
 
Snap_Happy said:
This is a good point - a lot of this thread has been pointing out police and security guard errors, but the police are starting to be told now how they should better interpret the law. This will eventually feed through to the security guards, as the police tell them to stop wasting time. However, who's gonna reinform the great British public, that photographers aren't an evil? What with paparazzi, terrorists, and all, it's not an impossible leap of imagination for the uneducated masses to see photography as a bad thing.

How can we reeducate the public who've been fed this tripe by our wonderful tabloids?

Sent from my iPhone using TP Forums
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That, to me, is by far the biggest problem and greatest challenge. If the situation warrants it you can cheek the police and goon bait security guards, so long as you're not breaking the law there's not really much they can do about it other than waste your time. But how do you deal with a crazed, enraged and paranoid member of the public? that's a difficult one! It's little consolation being "in the right" if you're also in hospital or have had your camera broken!
 
^ If it's a sturdy camera on a tripod, pick it up and wack her over the head, problem solved :D
 
STOWITBELOW said:
Dune you are being paranoid, - could be as simple as his colleague stating 'He was checked last week' having heard your details on the radio. I can't see many reasons why the Police would want to harass the innocent. Policing is by consent in this country. I don't know what was said, by whom, (or in what tone) but if he's asked a question & knows your reply to be mendacious of course suspicion will be aroused. Perhaps he was out of order in some respect, but consider the possibility that so were you, in your 'righteous indignation'. Of course, he may be a megalomaniac, or you may have been guilty of some offence. I doubt we shall find out. Bashing the Police because they had the affront to approach & ask questions is asinine. How dare the officer smile at you ! Clearly he was trying to intimidate. (Or perhaps put you at ease?) I'd go for the former - the Police have little to do & best spend their time persecuting the innocent - especially if they carry a camera. I think that must be in Police training manuals.
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Oh how little you know. A smile can be as intimidating as any threat. Policing is not done by consent in this country it is at the whim of the Chief Constable. Look at the trouble motorists have in North Wales.

Yes I was guilty of doing what the law of the country says I am allowed to do take photos. All you have to do is look at the videos on utube of the hassesment of amature and professional photograhers. Why do you think that these threads are so large with examples of people being harrased by coppers. Why do we get hundereds of people marching in london to complain about the coppers. I may be asinine but your just an ass if you dont beleive this happens. I really do think that some police decide to have 'sum fun' and flex their muscles when they are bored.
 
Dune said:
Oh how little you know. A smile can be as intimidating as any threat. Policing is not done by consent in this country it is at the whim of the Chief Constable. Look at the trouble motorists have in North Wales.

Yes I was guilty of doing what the law of the country says I am allowed to do take photos. All you have to do is look at the videos on utube of the hassesment of amature and professional photograhers. Why do you think that these threads are so large with examples of people being harrased by coppers. Why do we get hundereds of people marching in london to complain about the coppers. I may be asinine but your just an ass if you dont beleive this happens. I really do think that some police decide to have 'sum fun' and flex their muscles when they are bored.
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It took you a month to think up that witty riposte?

You need to get a slightly better grip on reality and stop watching programmes like the X Files and Prisoner!
 
Wow funny, some of us have a life outside of the internet.

Its easy to be caustic when your talking to a computer you wouldnt dare do it face to face. I joined this forum thinking that it would be a good discussion forum but no its full of numpties with funny comments. Demilion and Hollis your both a waste of time. Grow up and get a life. Idiots
 
Dune said:
Wow funny, some of us have a life outside of the internet.

Its easy to be caustic when your talking to a computer you wouldnt dare do it face to face. I joined this forum thinking that it would be a good discussion forum but no its full of numpties with funny comments. Demilion and Hollis your both a waste of time. Grow up and get a life. Idiots
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I'm being caustic, because you are being a prat, and the sort of complete idiot that gets photographers a poor name by acting like a complete tool everytime someone in uniform looks in your general direction.


Regarding your assumption that I wouldn't say that to your face -you are way, way off the mark there.

As for having a life...

If that were so why did you make 80 odd posts before deciding to reply?
 
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Why did I make 80 posts because I was replying to other items since I joined. I had not realised that someone had replied to me.

You obviously have a problem making comments that are only meant to inflame and aggravate. I believe what you are doing is called trolling, looking about sites just to cause trouble. You’re not a man but a coward and can only say things when you’re stuck behind a monitor in the privacy of your own home. I stick up for my rights even if that is by questioning the police and what they are doing I bet you just bend over and take it. Coward. I can call you that as I would do it to your face as I don’t trawl around web sites causing virtual fights. Do us all a favour and grow up and get a life.
 
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