Ignorant People and (parents) at Zoos etc (Rant alert)

KitsuneAndy said:
Nope, but running around during the walks between sections of the zoos, yeah. Whereas reading some of the responses here, she should be silent and right by my side it would seem.
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I think you're misunderstanding those responses Andy. Several times some the people in this thread have said that normal excited and fairly noisy behaviour should be expected at times and is perfectly healthy. It's nice to see kids being lively and having normal fun, but how far that goes should I think depend on the environment. There have also been several examples quoted of behaviour which I think is genuinely out of order - when the behaviour is intrusive, causes damage to property, or genuinely spoils the enjoyment of others. You yourself have already said that you would not let your small daughter behave that way so I think you are in fact on the same page as most of us! :)

If your little lass stood in front of somebody so she could see the animals, presuming she is quite small, I cannot think of anybody who would object. But if you put her on your shoulders and barged in front of everyone else totally obscuring their view rather than waiting for a moment for people to move on, then I would view that as rude and you probably would as well if it happened to you.

To be clear, I think the complaints in this thread are absolutely about poor and lax parenting of the type I am sure we have all encountered and cringed at. That does not mean that if we comment on it we're 'grumpy old sods'. o_O
 
Wow some major response here , just to clarify

My gripe is not solely at parents , or children

And I am in the camp that blames parents for their children's actions

Example : My partner has three young cousins , ages 5, 11 and 13
Which are little toads by anyone's reckoning
Now we both in our early 20s with no children of our own , took these three hellions to the deep for the youngests birthday, and guess what ? They behaved.
Perfectly in fact , because any time they played up or attempted to, we nipped it in the bud.
They waited their turn, they didn't make noise ,
And they didn't disturb people because we were in control and we told them to behave .

Just to confirm my gripe was not aimed just at parents , but at the general populace lacking manners .

Whether you're a photographer or not , a parent or not

You should respect patience and not barge in front of people that were there before you.

The children at the zoo in my instance did not barge in front of me until the parents pushed them there.... However the single woman and iPad selfie couple did.

I'm not asking for parents or children to be drawn and quartered but for the general populace , to be a bit more respectful (not asking much eh)

As I for one was brought up with manners , and as a photographer I'd never but in front of anyone either

At times I've ASKED to nip in front of someone for the SECONDS it takes me to get a shot

But my gripe was that I waited about 40 MINUTES , and didn't get the seconds to get a clear shot I needed and instead had to clone out lots of reflections of the people who butted in front of me
 
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Had to laugh (out loud!) at the little piece of faecal matter who was running down an aisle in Sainsbury's and sliding the last metre or 2 on his knees despite his mother telling him not to. My laugh came when the coefficient of friction increased rather suddenly and he was pitched forward onto his nose. To be fair to his mother, she told him it was his own fault, although quite why he wasn't in school is beyond me.
 
connersz said:
Who waits 40mins at a zoo enclosure anyway?
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I do and so do quite a few of my Toggin' associates & friends.
Tis the only way to get the shot you want ;)
Besides that after two minutes the little brats Live bait kiddies have got bored anyway, kicking the glass, bottom of the fence throwing stuff over the ( lower) walls,
and set about chasing the less dangerous animals, like the free ranging Mara at Whipsnade.
I was there Saturday, and a little girl about 3 I guess ( maybe a tad younger) sneaked up on a baby Mara and stroked it,
all credit to her, for her stealth.

But after that, she wanted more, and started to run screaming at any Mara in her vicinity, not understanding why they were all doing a Usain Bolt impersonation.
The Parents for thier part, just laughed and got out the iPad or what ever it was, presumably to video her chasing the baby Mara's about :rolleyes:
 
Cobra said:
But after that, she wanted more, and started to run screaming at any Mara in her vicinity, not understanding why they were all doing a Usain Bolt impersonation.
The Parents for thier part, just laughed and got out the iPad or what ever it was, presumably to video her chasing the baby Mara's about :rolleyes:
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and then the mummy mara turned on her and ripped her jugular out* and the parents are now suing the zoo... and free range animals are a thing of the past

(*okay i know mara's are about as dangerous as a carebear , but its going to happen sometime - probably in a lemur walk through)
 
Cobra said:
I do and so do quite a few of my Toggin' associates & friends.
Tis the only way to get the shot you want ;)
Besides that after two minutes the little brats Live bait kiddies have got bored anyway, kicking the glass, bottom of the fence throwing stuff over the ( lower) walls,
and set about chasing the less dangerous animals, like the free ranging Mara at Whipsnade.
I was there Saturday, and a little girl about 3 I guess ( maybe a tad younger) sneaked up on a baby Mara and stroked it,
all credit to her, for her stealth.

But after that, she wanted more, and started to run screaming at any Mara in her vicinity, not understanding why they were all doing a Usain Bolt impersonation.
The Parents for thier part, just laughed and got out the iPad or what ever it was, presumably to video her chasing the baby Mara's about :rolleyes:
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To be honest I've never really noted any of these issues on any of my zoo trips and I didn't realise people felt so strongly about it.

Perhaps having spent all that time standing in one place doing nothing you've found yourself becoming over conscious of what's going on around you and that's really what is bothering you.
 
gothgirl said:
But my gripe was that I waited about 40 MINUTES , and didn't get the seconds to get a clear shot I needed and instead had to clone out lots of reflections of the people who butted in front of me
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Yeah, your problem is that you waited 40 minutes in a zoo full of "ignorant people and parents". It's not the fault of the people that showed up for two minutes. I expect they were thinking it's about time you moved on for someone else to see anyway. I'm presuming it wasn't your first time at a zoo and that you had experienced that type of environment before.
 
connersz said:
Yeah, your problem is that you waited 40 minutes in a zoo full of "ignorant people and parents". It's not the fault of the people that showed up for two minutes. I expect they were thinking it's about time you moved on for someone else to see anyway. I'm presuming it wasn't your first time at a zoo and that you had experienced that type of environment before.
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it is the fault of the people who showed up for two minutes and were too ignorant and inconsiderate not to push in front - if somreone wants to wait for 40 minutes at one enclosure that is their prerogative - granted it doesn't give them any more rights, but it doesn't give them any less either
 
connersz said:
To be honest I've never really noted any of these issues on any of my zoo trips and I didn't realise people felt so strongly about it.
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It doesn't really bother me that much, as I said they do move on eventually.
If I'm watching "something" and a small child wants a better look, they are welcome to stand in front of me, I can still shoot over them.
but what does bother me is the fact that they run riot, banging on glass, be that the large panes in front of the big cats
or the smaller "neurotic" lizards and mammals.
And as already mentioned chasing the free ranging animals about.
You wouldn't let a child into a field of pregnant Ewes, so they chase them about, or throw stones at horses / cows in a field,
the farmer would soon be having words.

connersz said:
Perhaps having spent all that time standing in one place doing nothing
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Apart from observing and waiting
connersz said:
you've found yourself becoming over conscious of what's going on around you and that's really what is bothering you.
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Its not a case of being over conscious, as you put it, but waiting calmly for the shot, which may or may not be ruined by the screaming hoards,
banging the glass / fence / or running into photographers and their equipment.
 
Cobra said:
It doesn't really bother me that much, as I said they do move on eventually.
If I'm watching "something" and a small child wants a better look, they are welcome to stand in front of me, I can still shoot over them.
but what does bother me is the fact that they run riot, banging on glass, be that the large panes in front of the big cats
or the smaller "neurotic" lizards and mammals.
And as already mentioned chasing the free ranging animals about.
You wouldn't let a child into a field of pregnant Ewes, so they chase them about, or throw stones at horses / cows in a field,
the farmer would soon be having words.


Apart from observing and waiting

Its not a case of being over conscious, as you put it, but waiting calmly for the shot, which may or may not be ruined by the screaming hoards,
banging the glass / fence / or running into photographers and their equipment.
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Given that you're all clearly aware of how things are for photographers taking pictures at zoos and that none of you were surprised. Why don't you just go somewhere else for your pictures? You would clearly save yourselves a lot of stress and there would be no need for a rant on a photography forum.
 
Cobra said:
You wouldn't let a child into a field of pregnant Ewes, so they chase them about, or throw stones at horses / cows in a field,
the farmer would soon be having words.
.
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you'd think so wouldn't you , but in fact i've witnessed all three of those in my career as a ranger , not to mention people opening gates so little johnny can have a better look at the animals (with predictable consequences), and the absolute chucklehead who tried to put his child on the back of a bullock because the child wanted to ride it , who then complained when the bullock bucked the kid off and he was injured in the fall.
 
connersz said:
Given that you're all clearly aware of how things are for photographers taking pictures at zoos and that none of you were surprised. Why don't you just go somewhere else for your pictures? You would clearly save yourselves a lot of stress and there would be no need for a rant on a photography forum.
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and where else can people go to for example photograph a gorrilla ? - not everyone can afford the 7k plus for a trip into the rwandan foothills/.

heres an idea, as this thread clearly offends you, why don't you stop reading it, and save yourself a lot of stress ?
 
Nikon_Nick said:
Why should she have to?

She has just as much right to be there as any of the other punters, and every right to feel a bit p****d off with the situation.
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She doesn't have to. It was a suggestion. If she feels that things are going to change or it was a one-off rare thing to happen (guessing by the comments it wasn't), then that's fine but otherwise she has found herself taking pictures in an environment which upsets her, clearly very seriously.
 
connersz said:
She doesn't have to. It was a suggestion. If she feels that things are going to change or it was a one-off rare thing to happen (guessing by the comments it wasn't), then that's fine but otherwise she has found herself taking pictures in an environment which upsets her, clearly very seriously.
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shes having a rant on a forum - its hardly a mental breakdown. Tbh the only person who seems seriously upset here is you
 
big soft moose said:
you'd think so wouldn't you , but in fact i've witnessed all three of those in my career as a ranger , not to mention people opening gates so little johnny can have a better look at the animals (with predictable consequences), and the absolute chucklehead who tried to put his child on the back of a bullock because the child wanted to ride it , who then complained when the bullock bucked the kid off and he was injured in the fall.
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TBH none of that surprises me, it should, but it doesn't :(


connersz said:
Why don't you just go somewhere else for your pictures? You would clearly save yourselves a lot of stress and there would be no need for a rant on a photography forum.
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I think @big soft moose just about covered that, on both points.
And TBH, *if* we did, the zoo's would lose a hell of a lot of revenue.
All we ask is that other people and the animals are treated with some respect and consideration by the the children of other people.
Its not the children fault if they are not taught how to behave in public.

If you go to a restaurant and had kids running riot
would you get up and go elsewhere, even if it was your favourite place to eat,
and never darken their doors again?
 
The point, Jamie, is that she knew full well what 'could' happen...shes not an idiot. She also accepts that she has no additional rights than the other punters, nor did she say that she should have. All the OP expected, was that people might show a little respect to another zoo visitor (regardless of them being a photographer or not). I dont think its a lot to expect that people shouldnt barge/push in front of you (again, regardless of the fact she had a camera). Why do you have a problem with the OP being annoyed about it?
 
Nikon_Nick said:
The point, Jamie, is that she knew full well what 'could' happen...shes not an idiot. She also accepts that she has no additional rights than the other punters, nor did she say that she should have. All the OP expected, was that people might show a little respect to another zoo visitor (regardless of them being a photographer or not). I dont think its a lot to expect that people shouldnt barge/push in front of you (again, regardless of the fact she had a camera). Why do you have a problem with the OP being annoyed about it?
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Nail on the head there
 
On a slightly separate but related note, earlier this year I was on a ferry back from Dublin when over the ship's tannoy came an announcement to the effect of, "Would the guardians of the children on deck X please keep them under control".

I'd had a few shandies, as you do, but wandered quickly up to see what was happening. The kids were tearing around the place, treating the aisles in between the seating areas as a racing track, being chased by their red-faced mums who, it has to be said, were built more for comfort than speed and didn't stand a chance.

It was like a scene from Benny Hill. :D
 
Nikon_Nick said:
The point, Jamie, is that she knew full well what 'could' happen...shes not an idiot. She also accepts that she has no additional rights than the other punters, nor did she say that she should have. All the OP expected, was that people might show a little respect to another zoo visitor (regardless of them being a photographer or not). I dont think its a lot to expect that people shouldnt barge/push in front of you (again, regardless of the fact she had a camera). Why do you have a problem with the OP being annoyed about it?
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I'm just saying that as everyone is aware of the problem that moaning on a photo forum isn't going to solve anything. If you' need to wait so long to get a picture of a specific species but can't have other people in front then you need to either find it in it's natural habitat or perhaps go to the zoo during the week when there are far few visitors and practically no kids at all. I know that some zoos even hold special times/events for photographers with better access albeit at an additional fee.

Who's next to twist my words?
 
Dont think anyone is twisting your words.

Does anyone actually think that ranting about something on a photo forum (or any forum for that matter) will actually 'change' anything? No, of course they dont, but this forum allows people to talk about pretty much whatever they like. In this case, it was about being stopped from taking photos at a zoo because of rude people.

What else is on the list of 'no go' subjects?
 
connersz said:
I'm just saying that as everyone is aware of the problem that moaning on a photo forum isn't going to solve anything.
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We may as well shut down Out of focus then and Ban
Mac v PC
RAW v Jpeg
Canon v Nikon
iPhone v Andriod threads.

As all right thinking people know the answer to those questions ;)
 
connersz said:
I'm just saying that as everyone is aware of the problem that moaning on a photo forum isn't going to solve anything. If you' need to wait so long to get a picture of a specific species but can't have other people in front then you need to either find it in it's natural habitat or perhaps go to the zoo during the week when there are far few visitors and practically no kids at all. I know that some zoos even hold special times/events for photographers with better access albeit at an additional fee.

Who's next to twist my words?
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I think you'll find that the issue isnt "having other people in front of you" , its having people rudely and inconsiderately push in front of you - no one is saying they have more rights than anyone else, but they don't have fewer.

and going during the week isnt an option for a lot of people who work , plus there are often school trips etc to contend with , whilst going to the creatures natural habitat is often a non starter - how for example would you set about photographing snow leopard cubs in the wild ? especially given that most of their habitat is currently a warzone
 
I'm also curious as to why, given that he thinks moaning on a photo forum' is a waste of time - connor has spent so long moaning about this thread ?
 
Cobra said:
We may as well shut down Out of focus then and Ban
Mac v PC
RAW v Jpeg
Canon v Nikon
iPhone v Andriod threads.
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but how will we manage to photograph a troll in its natural habitat then ?
 
Cobra said:
We may as well shut down Out of focus then and Ban
Mac v PC
RAW v Jpeg
Canon v Nikon
iPhone v Andriod threads.

As all right thinking people know the answer to those questions ;)
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PC
RAW
Canon
Android

Sorted.

Oh and feed misbehaving children to the tigers, whilst we are at it.
 
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A system of lights would sort the problem at animal enclosures, changing at 2 minute intervals.

Red - photographers right of way.
Amber - Selfies right of way.
Green - Everyone elses right of way.

:)
 
TimmyG said:
Oh and feed misbehaving children to the tigers, whilst we are at it.
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Don't think I haven't offered to do that at times either ( hence the live bait reference)
Some parents laugh and I offer to get the shots for them, others just walk off in disgust :D
 
connersz said:
Forgive me for questioning the right to moan on this forum.
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You need to hang around out of focus more (y)
In fact don't it won't do your blood pressure any good whatsoever :D
 
connersz said:
Forgive me for questioning the right to moan on this forum.
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Nothing to forgive! You have every right to moan on this forum about people moaning on this forum. It's the ones that moan about people moaning about people moaning on forums that I object to!
 
TimmyG said:
Nothing to forgive! You have every right to moan on this forum about people moaning on this forum. It's the ones that moan about people moaning about people moaning on forums that I object to!
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Oh stop objecting will you!!
 
Mooning in photos? Back in film days, if I found an unattended camera, I used to take a selfie of my left cheek before replacing the camera. I have no idea how many people have a shot (OOF and blurry due to the normal lighting back then) of Garfield wishing the viewer "Have a nice day" as he chews on a :) !!!


The bargers got some come uppance a while back when the new (then) Jaguar at Dartmoor Zoological Park got a special treat - a bullock's head dangling from a chain. The sickening crunches as he devoured it had several children turning away looking a bit green, although some were quite interested!
 
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