Imac

ohsouthlondon · 8 Oct 2013

So I'm looking at a PC/Mac setup that I can use for PP stuff as I improve my knowledge and skills.

I've been looking at the following, but would like advice as to whether it would be suitable for PP stuff. Budget is around £2.5k (plus a bit of stretch for something special) and I was kind of hoping for as much future proofing as possible in whatever I get.

I've heard a lot of people talking about professionally calibrated screens and it's got me thinking about what I will actually use right now and within the life of the equipment versus what is recommended for pro's. I'm not a pro, and I won't be for years to come, but obviously want to give myself the space to develop as much as possible without equipment being a hindrance.

So this is what I am looking at:

27” display
3.5GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz
32GB 1600MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 4X8GB
3TB Fusion Drive
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4GB GDDR5

Any advice would be most gratefully received.

arad85 · 8 Oct 2013

Yup. Will do fine (although you can cut down on memory to 16G and you don't need the uprated graphics and the i5 will be almost as fast as the i7). Also make sure you are OK with the glossy screen (which ISN'T a retina display BTW). I know it would drive me absolutely mad, but others are OK with it.

You'd probably get more flexibility/bang for buck out of a Windows PC (that's all I'll say on the subject

).

You'd be better off with this thread in the computers section though.

ohsouthlondon · 8 Oct 2013

arad85 said:
Yup. Will do fine (although you can cut down on memory to 16G and you don't need the uprated graphics and the i5 will be almost as fast as the i7). Also make sure you are OK with the glossy screen (which ISN'T a retina display BTW). I know it would drive me absolutely mad, but others are OK with it.

You'd probably get more flexibility/bang for buck out of a Windows PC (that's all I'll say on the subject ).

You'd be better off with this thread in the computers section though.

Thanks for the reply.

I had just noticed that it wasn't a retina display and whilst looking into that, I read that a lot of people really don't get on with the glossy display. I know from my design days that glossy screens are not ideal at all so I may have to look at a mac mini with a seperate screen or 2.

To be honest my last laptop was an i5 and although I know that it is only a piece of the speed puzzle, I just wasn't impressed with it (design work-wise) so I really want to go in for the i7 this time.

Very cryptic comment on the windows PC...... :thinking:

I've always been a windows fanboy due to the very facts that you mention, but the overall opinion seems to lean in favour of a mac. So now I'm wondering what you didnt say and why!!

Thanks again for the comments, and i've asked for the thread to be moved

Grendel · 8 Oct 2013

Popped it over to Computers for you

ohsouthlondon · 8 Oct 2013

Grendel said:
Popped it over to Computers for you

Much appreciated, thank you

arad85 · 8 Oct 2013

ohsouthlondon said:
Very cryptic comment on the windows PC...... I've always been a windows fanboy due to the very facts that you mention, but the overall opinion seems to lean in favour of a mac. So now I'm wondering what you didnt say and why!!

OK... I did say I wouldn't comment further but....

I don't like Macs and Apples way of doing things - I find the UI too cut down and they don't seem to integrate particularly well with other equipment unless it has a semi-eaten fruit on the front of it. I particularly don't like the assumption that the window is a full screen one - the window commands are on the top bar and detached from the window you are working on.

I run a variety of Unix machines and develop Linux device drivers for a living (I'm just about to move back to a coding job for those who know me

) so believe I know my way around a computer, but I prefer Windows for day-to-day tasks.

A Mac is essentially a well packaged PC - there is no difference in the components used or any difference in raw processing power (with like for like machines). OK - the fusion drive is different, but you can replicate this on PCs with the latest chips with an SSD as a cache drive. Once you are in a program such as lightroom or photoshop, the only difference between a Mac and a PC is which key you use as the keyboard modifier...

Don't get me wrong - if you want a Mac because you love OS-X or you want it because it is in a nice case, then go ahead, buy one, but buy it because you want it, not because someone has said it is "better". As Public Enemy once said... Don't believe the hype...

neil_g · 8 Oct 2013

what he said, you wont get any "benefit" from going mac. its just a different laid out OS with the same underlying hardware

ohsouthlondon · 8 Oct 2013

arad85 said:
OK... I did say I wouldn't comment further but....

I don't like Macs and Apples way of doing things - I find the UI too cut down and they don't seem to integrate particularly well with other equipment unless it has a semi-eaten fruit on the front of it. I particularly don't like the assumption that the window is a full screen one - the window commands are on the top bar and detached from the window you are working on.

I run a variety of Unix machines and develop Linux device drivers for a living (I'm just about to move back to a coding job for those who know me ) so believe I know my way around a computer, but I prefer Windows for day-to-day tasks.

A Mac is essentially a well packaged PC - there is no difference in the components used or any difference in raw processing power (with like for like machines). OK - the fusion drive is different, but you can replicate this on PCs with the latest chips with an SSD as a cache drive. Once you are in a program such as lightroom or photoshop, the only difference between a Mac and a PC is which key you use as the keyboard modifier...

Don't get me wrong - if you want a Mac because you love OS-X or you want it because it is in a nice case, then go ahead, buy one, but buy it because you want it, not because someone has said it is "better". As Public Enemy once said... Don't believe the hype...

Awesome advice, and I find myself further indebted to you.

I believe I have heard enough to convince me that I was right to prefer windows and so I will get looking at some systems.

It's a shame that I have no idea how to build a PC as I am painfully aware of how cheap it can be to do so.

Also who doesn't love public enemy, incredible to think that they were referring to the imacs of today with that song....

Appreciate you taking the time to educate me!

arad85 · 8 Oct 2013

Go into an Apple store/Currys and have a play. You might find you like Macs

If you don't want to self build, Dell Outlet, or Novatech or PC Specialist are probably your best bets. I just configured something decent for about £900 on PCSpecialist (i7-4770/16G/SSD system drive HDD main drive uprated PSU/cooler). I'd add another £70 or so for a decent graphics card (my recommendation would be this one as it is passive so less noise: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-...0mhz-384-cores-mini-hdmi-2x-dl-dvi-passive-co but noone seems to have it in stock)

For screen, go with one (or two!) Dell Ultrasharps (24" or 27" or 30" if only a single screen

). Best place I've found to get those from is PCBuyIt. In fact, with your budget, I'd be looking to spend a fair bit on monitors. Personally, I'd go with 2 x 27" (http://www.pcbuyit.co.uk/dell-ultrasharp-u2713h-27inch-widescreen-monitor-black-p-2126.html or http://www.pcbuyit.co.uk/dell-ultrasharp-u2713hm-revison-27inch-widescreen-monitor-black-p-2170.html if you wanted to save a bit - they aren't quite as good, but much better than the cheapo 27" monitors). Also factor in hardware calibrator (around £100 will do you for a Spyder - I have i1 Display Pro but that's a bit pricier).

onomatopoeia · 8 Oct 2013

arad85 said:
OK... I did say I wouldn't comment further but....
<stuff>

I've snipped it, but I agree with it all. I don't write linux device drivers though, I develop Windows software that works at fairly low level (direct manipulation of PE/COFF files, self modifying code, exception handling in assembly language etc etc).

ohsouthlondon · 8 Oct 2013

arad85 said:
Go into an Apple store/Currys and have a play. You might find you like Macs

If you don't want to self build, Dell Outlet, or Novatech or PC Specialist are probably your best bets. I just configured something decent for about £900 on PCSpecialist (i7-4770/16G/SSD system drive HDD main drive uprated PSU/cooler). I'd add another £70 or so for a decent graphics card (my recommendation would be this one as it is passive so less noise: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-...0mhz-384-cores-mini-hdmi-2x-dl-dvi-passive-co but noone seems to have it in stock)

For screen, go with one (or two!) Dell Ultrasharps (24" or 27" or 30" if only a single screen ). Best place I've found to get those from is PCBuyIt. In fact, with your budget, I'd be looking to spend a fair bit on monitors. Personally, I'd go with 2 x 27" (http://www.pcbuyit.co.uk/dell-ultrasharp-u2713h-27inch-widescreen-monitor-black-p-2126.html or http://www.pcbuyit.co.uk/dell-ultrasharp-u2713hm-revison-27inch-widescreen-monitor-black-p-2170.html if you wanted to save a bit - they aren't quite as good, but much better than the cheapo 27" monitors). Also factor in hardware calibrator (around £100 will do you for a Spyder - I have i1 Display Pro but that's a bit pricier).

More awesome advice, thank you.

I would love to self build but I just don't have the know how. To be honest, I've never been a fan of apple so I'm glad to hear that I can get potentially better performance from a PC.

The ultrasharps look right up my street and one of the more comon themes in screen discussions seems to be that 2 are better than 1.

Thank you so much for all the advice and links, it's very much appreciated.

ohsouthlondon · 8 Oct 2013

arad85 said:
If you don't want to self build, Dell Outlet, or Novatech or PC Specialist are probably your best bets.

Holy mother of god, it's like a toy shop for adults!!!

arad85 · 8 Oct 2013

ohsouthlondon said:
Holy mother of god, it's like a toy shop for adults!!!

I self build and often spend many hours browsing ebuyer.... :geek:

ohsouthlondon · 9 Oct 2013

So for those of you in the know, how's this?

Processor:
Intel Core i7 4770K Haswell Processor 3.50 GHz (No Overclocking)

CPU Cooler:
Corsair Hydro H80i High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler

Thermal Paste:
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Paste

Motherboard:
Asus Z87-PRO Motherboard - Haswell CPU only

Memory:
32GB Corsair PC3-12800 1600MHz DDR3 Memory (4 x 8GB sticks)

Graphics Card:
NVIDIA Quadro K2000 1GB Professional Video Card

Solid State Drive:
120GB Samsung 840 EVO Solid State Drive

2nd Hard Drive:
1000GB 7200RPM Hard Disk - 6Gbps

3rd Hard Drive:
1000GB 7200RPM Hard Disk - 6Gbps

Scratch Disk:
120GB Samsung 840 EVO Solid State Drive

Optical Drive:
Pioneer BDXL Quad Layer Blu-ray Writer SATA 1.5Gb/s

Power Supply:
Corsair HX 1050 Modular 1050W PSU

Primary Monitor:
30" Dell UltraSharp U3011 Widescreen TFT Monitor

Secondary Monitor:
30" Dell UltraSharp U3011 Widescreen TFT Monitor

neil_g · 9 Oct 2013

ohsouthlondon said:
So for those of you in the know, how's this? Processor: Intel Core i7 4770K Haswell Processor 3.50 GHz (No Overclocking) CPU Cooler: Corsair Hydro H80i High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler Thermal Paste: Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Paste Motherboard: Asus Z87-PRO Motherboard - Haswell CPU only Memory: 32GB Corsair PC3-12800 1600MHz DDR3 Memory (4 x 8GB sticks) Graphics Card: NVIDIA Quadro K2000 1GB Professional Video Card Solid State Drive: 120GB Samsung 840 EVO Solid State Drive 2nd Hard Drive: 1000GB 7200RPM Hard Disk - 6Gbps 3rd Hard Drive: 1000GB 7200RPM Hard Disk - 6Gbps Scratch Disk: 120GB Samsung 840 EVO Solid State Drive Optical Drive: Pioneer BDXL Quad Layer Blu-ray Writer SATA 1.5Gb/s Power Supply: Corsair HX 1050 Modular 1050W PSU Primary Monitor: 30" Dell UltraSharp U3011 Widescreen TFT Monitor Secondary Monitor: 30" Dell UltraSharp U3011 Widescreen TFT Monitor

If you're not overclocking then a good air cooler would be cheaper, the hydro isn't really necessary.

Do you need all of that ram?

Psu is overkill.

Can the quadro handle the twin res of the 30s?

arad85 · 9 Oct 2013

That will be a beast of a system.,

Some comments though:
If not overclocking, go for the non-K processor and decent air cooler.
You will get away with a 650W Corsair PSU (TXM650) - no problems
I agree with Neil on RAM - 16G is plenty for 99% of people
Can you get a 2G graphics card? I am finding with 3 monitors (2 x 1920x1200 and 1 x 2560 x 1440) that I'm regularly using more than 1G of video memory.

2 x 30" monitors - yikes

ohsouthlondon · 9 Oct 2013

neil_g said:
If you're not overclocking then a good air cooler would be cheaper, the hydro isn't really necessary.

Do you need all of that ram?

Psu is overkill.

Can the quadro handle the twin res of the 30s?

I knew I'd fall over!

The problem I face is that I'm total hardware noob. Whilst I have no issues whatsoever with software and getting it to do exactly what I want, conversely I have no clue about hardware.

All I really want to do is turn between £2k-£2.5k into a serious bit of PC, but I don't necessarily trust the guys (whose job it is to sell me said PC) to advise me correctly, much in the same way that I wouldn't walk into Jessops and say I have £2.5k and no idea what I want. The type of sites that have been listed above are generally those where you spec your own PC and they build it for you, but I know not what to spec.

Also in fairness, if I had half a clue about hardware, I would probably just give the building a good old country go as I'm sure there's a saving to be had there.

ohsouthlondon · 9 Oct 2013

arad85 said:
That will be a beast of a system.,

Some comments though:
If not overclocking, go for the non-K processor and decent air cooler.
You will get away with a 650W Corsair PSU (TXM650) - no problems
I agree with Neil on RAM - 16G is plenty for 99% of people
Can you get a 2G graphics card? I am finding with 3 monitors (2 x 1920x1200 and 1 x 2560 x 1440) that I'm regularly using more than 1G of video memory.

2 x 30" monitors - yikes

To be fair I'd be quite happy to overclock but wasn't sure what the crack is on that sort of thing in terms of life and how it is affected. Some people say yeah do it, the CPU will self regulate if it reaches dangerous temps, some people say don't go near it. Mind boggling!

I half get RAM and the 32g was just a precaution against me actually ever being able to push the PC that far, low probability I know

I'm lost on graphics cards, the guy at work is always going on about the 'crysis test' but I'm not really a gamer so it goes over my head :thinking:

2 monitors yikes good or bad? I'd like to think good.....??

arad85 · 9 Oct 2013

ohsouthlondon said:
To be fair I'd be quite happy to overclock but wasn't sure what the crack is on that sort of thing in terms of life and how it is affected. Some people say yeah do it, the CPU will self regulate if it reaches dangerous temps, some people say don't go near it. Mind boggling!

The only way of killing the latest processors is to over volt them. If you are doing a "standard" overclock (that is, getting as high a CPU frequency as you can with the motherboard doing everything automatically) you will be fine on overclocking. I got to 4.5GHz on all auto settings and got an extra 200MHz (4.7GHz) by messing with voltages. Be warned though that the newer chips don't overclock as well as the older chips, but you should get to ~4.2ish quite easily.

ohsouthlondon said:
I half get RAM and the 32g was just a precaution against me actually ever being able to push the PC that far, low probability I know

It's your money

ohsouthlondon said:
I'm lost on graphics cards, the guy at work is always going on about the 'crysis test' but I'm not really a gamer so it goes over my head

If you don't game or don't do lots of video editing almost anything will do. The Quadro 2000 looks to be OK for what you want (2 display ports which both monitors have), but I'd look for one that has 2G of memory (or an alternate card that can drive 2 x 30" monitors).

ohsouthlondon said:
2 monitors yikes good or bad? I'd like to think good.....??

Good - very good! They are big though