Is it cheating?

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maddog

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stevie.
Edit My Images
Yes
Would it be 'cheating' to manufacture a shot of wild raptors? As long as any practice was legal and in no way harmed the birds and perhaps animal/s concerned?
 
Only if you try to pass it off as genuine afterwards.
 
Could you elaborate a little more on "manufacture a shot of wild raptors"? :)

If you're talking about using captive bred & trained birds, then using Photoshop to take out the jesses, anklets, bells & telemetry then I don't see how it's really a problem, unless you're entering them in a contest specifically for "wild" shots and trying to pass them off as such.
 
Even that is a moot point. I've posted birds on here that were captive that people have assumed aren't. If asked, I won't lie. And I won't enter them in a wildlife competition but I'm not sure what "cheating" is.

Many of the raptor pictures from RSPB images and other libraries are taken using captive birds as you can't readily get publishable material from some wild species.

For me, of more concern is the practice in some quarters of live bait for birds of prey.
 
Yeah, I had a chat with an American chap at the International Festival of Falconry in Reading last year. It's something he does occasionally over there, but is completely legal in the US.
 
No no, no 'baiting' or passing off fakes as gen, it will be entirely wild creatures, last week after shooting a few rabbits i left them next to a hedge i would use as my return route to the jeep, on the way back a Buzzard was on the hedge next to the rabbit's eyeing them up, we left one and time we got to the jeep could look through the glasses and see him down tearing at the rabbit. Just occurred to me after this mornings walk it could be very productive to set up a hide and place a shot rabbit close by with camera sat on tripod etc.
It would also more than likely draw in fox and if location was chosen it might provide badger pics! (which though i see regular i find near impossible to get a picture off)
 
maddog said:
last week after shooting a few rabbits
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It took me a few seconds to realise you didn't mean with a camera. ;)

Assuming you have the landowner's permission to shoot bunnies on their property, it's certainly not illegal.

The issue of going out and shooting rabbits aside (not something I want to get into on a public forum :)), it's really no different than hanging out a big seed-packed ball of fat in your back garden to attract birds in front of the camera. You're just using different food to attract a different bird.
 
maddog said:
No no, no 'baiting' or passing off fakes as gen, it will be entirely wild creatures, last week after shooting a few rabbits i left them next to a hedge i would use as my return route to the jeep, on the way back a Buzzard was on the hedge next to the rabbit's eyeing them up, we left one and time we got to the jeep could look through the glasses and see him down tearing at the rabbit. Just occurred to me after this mornings walk it could be very productive to set up a hide and place a shot rabbit close by with camera sat on tripod etc.
It would also more than likely draw in fox and if location was chosen it might provide badger pics! (which though i see regular i find near impossible to get a picture off)
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no harm in that...we do that to get mr robin shots in the garden
good luck
ps watch out for its mate...behind you:lol:
 
You can't "cheat", photographically, unless there's some intention to deceive IMHO. Even that's borderline unless the photographer is trying to sell the images, enter them for a competition, or gain some other benefit by passing them off as something other than what they really are.

I can't see how shooting rabbits, and using them as bait, is any different from using road kill in the same circumstances.
 
maddog said:
No no, no 'baiting' or passing off fakes as gen, it will be entirely wild creatures, last week after shooting a few rabbits i left them next to a hedge i would use as my return route to the jeep, on the way back a Buzzard was on the hedge next to the rabbit's eyeing them up, we left one and time we got to the jeep could look through the glasses and see him down tearing at the rabbit. Just occurred to me after this mornings walk it could be very productive to set up a hide and place a shot rabbit close by with camera sat on tripod etc.
It would also more than likely draw in fox and if location was chosen it might provide badger pics! (which though i see regular i find near impossible to get a picture off)
Click to expand...

Sounds like good wildlife photography technique to me. :thumbs:
 
MartynK said:
You can't "cheat", photographically, unless there's some intention to deceive IMHO. Even that's borderline unless the photographer is trying to sell the images, enter them for a competition, or gain some other benefit by passing them off as something other than what they really are.

I can't see how shooting rabbits, and using them as bait, is any different from using road kill in the same circumstances.
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once they are dead...and killed humanely...12 bore improved cylinder...and on land you have permission to shoot...its food chain after all
 
mrcrow said:
once they are dead...and killed humanely...12 bore improved cylinder...and on land you have permission to shoot...its food chain after all
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Hmm, you give us the choke, but not the shot size?
 
Not cheating at all. I've done lots of work with bait over the years. Actually been thinking of baiting crows with some rabbits recently for a shot I want...
 
in my view the only way to "cheat" photographicaly is by using editing software !
 
knocker said:
in my view the only way to "cheat" photographicaly is by using editing software !
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It's a necessary part of digital photography, it's really like saying "anybody not using Kodak Gold 200 is cheating" in the film days. People used different film to get different looks. We can't switch out sensors to achieve similar results so software is the only option.
 
knocker said:
in my view the only way to "cheat" photographicaly is by using editing software !
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So no digital then! Seeing as all raw shots need post processing of some sort and all jpeg shots are processed in camera all digital images have some editing.
Thats a bit like saying film shots provided they aren't developed.
 
I certainly wouldn't condone the use of live bait for photographic purposes, I'd find that completely abhorrent. There's a world of difference between using live bait to catch a man eating predator and using it just to facilitate a photograph. I don't see any problem however with using dead critters as a lure and I'd have no qualms about doing that.

When it comes to manipulating images, there are people who manipulate to the point that the image bears little resemblance to the original shot, and producing results which are a cross between photography and graphic art, demonstrating an enviable amount of skill in doing so, even if the results aren't to everyones taste.

It doesn't matter what you do to an image or how you obtain it - the only sin is lying about it - hence the current furore surroundng the Wildlife POTY contest.
 
CT said:
I certainly wouldn't condone the use of live bait for photographic purposes, I'd find that completely abhorrent. There's a world of difference between using live bait to catch a man eating predator and using it just to facilitate a photograph. I don't see any problem however with using dead critters as a lure and I'd have no qualms about doing that.

When it comes to manipulating images, there are people who manipulate to the point that the image bears little resemblance to the original shot, and producing results which are a cross between photography and graphic art, demonstrating an enviable amount of skill in doing so, even if the results aren't to everyones taste.

It doesn't matter what you do to an image or how you obtain it - the only sin is lying about it - hence the current furore surroundng the Wildlife POTY contest.
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Couldnt have put it better myself ! :)
 
I wouldn't see it as cheating, it is as CT said, only a lure, you still have to be there (and no reason why you would have to have the bunny in the shot if you want it to be more lifelike even).
I don't know much about the shooting side of things, the only thing that would concern me would be the possibility of there being lead/shot eaten by the bird?
 
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