- Messages
- 5,264
- Name
- Lee
- Edit My Images
- Yes
How about if you need a rest? Or have to tie a shoe lace? Or the dog stops to sniff or wee?
and help to keep the site free for all
Is photography a recreation?
- Thread starter nigpd
- Start date
How about if you need a rest? Or have to tie a shoe lace? Or the dog stops to sniff or wee?
D
darkroom12
Guest
I think the 'recreation' side of things is meant to mean some sort of physical activity other than walking/cycling, which well be the reason why a game of golf with one other person or a tennis game with one other. I also think an unnecessary journey actually applies to using public transport, bus or train and taxi but not a private car or on a motorcycle.
To be quite honest this last move one thing that has baffled me. I have been able to see a reason for other controls on our life, but not this one. Not that it will affect me in either case, my knees are not the best although walking is one thing I can do. I do think the lock-down is needed but a lot of clarification is needed.
They are trying to cover all bases but lacks joined up common sense to make it work!
To be quite honest this last move one thing that has baffled me. I have been able to see a reason for other controls on our life, but not this one. Not that it will affect me in either case, my knees are not the best although walking is one thing I can do. I do think the lock-down is needed but a lot of clarification is needed.
They are trying to cover all bases but lacks joined up common sense to make it work!
Last edited by a moderator:
- Messages
- 1,130
- Name
- James
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Its the distance you can travel that is vague. I will happily drive 2hours for a day out walking that usually coincides with a photo op. Its a 40 minute drive to my usual exercise location which is the nearest location to where I live.
D
darkroom12
Guest
Actually where I live, a ten minute drive takes me onto high moorland where there are a lot more sheep than people (As far as I know sheep are not carriers or can be infected with Covid19)
Mr Badger
Didymus
- Messages
- 7,457
- Edit My Images
- No
I suppose it depends on how close you get to them?Actually where I live, a ten minute drive takes me onto high moorland where there are a lot more sheep than people (As far as I know sheep are not carriers or can be infected with Covid19)
Last edited:
D
darkroom12
Guest
This link is the breakdown of what we can and cannot do as from the 5th November 2020:-
www.gov.uk
There is a section close to the bottom about exercise and walking which should be done in the local area but you may travel to somewhere quieter (section 11)
Living safely with respiratory infections, including COVID-19
Guidance for living safely with respiratory infections, including coronavirus (COVID-19).
There is a section close to the bottom about exercise and walking which should be done in the local area but you may travel to somewhere quieter (section 11)
Last edited by a moderator:
- Messages
- 5,264
- Name
- Lee
- Edit My Images
- Yes
This link is the breakdown of what we can and cannot do as from the 5th November 2020:-
Living safely with respiratory infections, including COVID-19
Guidance for living safely with respiratory infections, including coronavirus (COVID-19).
There is a section close to the bottom about exercise and walking which should be done in the local area but you may travel to somewhere quieter (section 11)
Sounds good to me.
- Messages
- 3,251
- Name
- Graham
- Edit My Images
- No
I think we should stop this nowHow about if you need a rest? Or have to tie a shoe lace? Or the dog stops to sniff or wee?
- Messages
- 3,251
- Name
- Graham
- Edit My Images
- No
As mentioned before, the guidance doesn't mention recreation, only exercise and visiting open spaces, but the latest update of the guidance has added:
"There is further guidance on what exercise and other physical activity can continue during the period of national restrictions."
but so far this isn't available.
The unnecessary journey restriction does apply to car journeys, as its aimed at preventing spreading the virus around the country. For example, during the last lockdown it was pointed out that a serious road traffic accident, which subsequently turned out to involve a covid positive casualty could result in 20-30 emergency responders being put into 2 weeks self isolation. But there are obviously other low risk activities with driving around, more filling up with fuel, more of needing to call on break down services etc. So why add to the risk, if they can reasonably be avoided.
But it's also a logical follow on from the first principle of the lockdown that you should stay at home to minimise the risk of coming into contact with people outside you "bubble" unless you have a good reason. And if you do need to leave home, staying as close to home as you can should minimise contact with people from outside your local area, and reduce the risk of geographic spread of the virus.
- Messages
- 104,465
- Name
- The other Chris
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Not surprising really because they have already been caught out by trying to define recreation/sport. However it does say that you
So you can travel locally to spend time outdoors, there is no exclusion on taking a camera whilst spending time outdoors and you do not have to be specifically exercising.
D
Deleted member 34016
Guest
I agree with Chris- I have during the last lockdown walked for miles on the Levels with my Camera gear- never saw another soul, I'll be doing that again for the next lockdown
Its local- I can walk there and back
Les
Its local- I can walk there and back
Les
- Messages
- 3,251
- Name
- Graham
- Edit My Images
- No
Yes, but you can't read part of the guidance in isolation.
At the moment, the list of reasons to be out of your home (section 1) doesn't even include exercise as a specific activity that you can leave your home for, and the idea from the last lockdown of "essential" activity seem to have been completely replaced with a list of specified activities.
In section 2 meeting people it says:
"You can exercise or visit outdoor public places with:
the people you live with your support bubble or, when on your own, 1 person from another household. Children under 5, as well as disabled people dependent on round-the-clock care are not counted towards the limit on two people meeting outside
There is further guidance on what exercise and other physical activity can continue during the period of national restrictions.
Outdoor public places include:
neighbourhood streets, parks, beaches, and the countryside
public gardens and grounds (whether or not you pay to enter them)
allotments
outdoor playgrounds"
And then section 11, that you quote.
"to spend time or exercise outdoors - this should be done locally wherever possible, but you can travel to do so if necessary (for example, to access an open space)"
Personally, I'm still where I was yesterday until they publish the further guidance.
I've no problem with going out for a walk and grabbing some photographs as I go, but hanging around in one place for 10 -30 minutes with my tripod making a picture, just doesn't feel appropriate, "for me".
If, the list of permitted activities includes angling, as rumours suggest, then I will be happy to consider that hanging around with a tripod is sufficiently analogous to hanging around with a fishing rod for it to still meet the aims of the lockdown.
But, given the vagueness of the guidance, we all need to make our own value judgement on this. I'm not sure what "visiting" outdoor/openspaces means, does it just mean going for a walk (or other exercise type activity) or can you have a picnic, fly a kite and play games.
But this has become a much more convoluted discussion than I expected, or wanted. I only really wanted to find out where the guidance stated "recreation" as I couldn’t and still haven't been able to find it.
- Messages
- 104,465
- Name
- The other Chris
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I wasn't. It is fairly common in legislation to set out a general principle of the law and then set out exclusions, defences, etc. This guidance follows a similar pattern. It says "stay at home", that is the primary requirement and unless otherwise stated it is what you should do but then it sets out a number of reasons that are valid for not staying at home.
I agree with Chris- I have during the last lockdown walked for miles on the Levels with my Camera gear- never saw another soul, I'll be doing that again for the next lockdown
Its local- I can walk there and back
This really. There has been some debate about "common sense" but the vast majority of people understand that the aim of these measures is to reduce person to person contact and I don't think the government, the courts, the police, etc. are bothered about a person in a remote area setting up a tripod. However setting up a tripod on a busy footpath where people have to squeeze past is just daft and asking for trouble.
- Messages
- 1,140
- Name
- Mike
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Surely if there's no-one else around that 10-30 minutes will not be a problem. In more crowed areas 1 minute might be.
- Messages
- 3,251
- Name
- Graham
- Edit My Images
- No
I didn't really mean to suggest you weren't, just prefacing me quoting other parts of the guidance. but you still need to know what the valid reasons are with sufficient detail to turn them into how you behave.
D
Deleted member 34016
Guest
I have access to Private land on the Somerset levels-( ex-employer owned- I was his gamekeeper for 20 years ) which is just outside my back garden- and I NEVER use a tripod
failing that I sit in my X Trail and shoot out of the side windowLes
- Messages
- 3,251
- Name
- Graham
- Edit My Images
- No
I don't think it’s a problem either, but I'm not in the middle of no where, so I still occasionally come across other people, but they are easy to keep 2m plus away from.
However, the main point is that I personally feel that to comply with the spirit of the lock down a walk for "exercise" with the occasional grab photograph is acceptable, but once I start faffing about in one place, setting the tripod up, etc, it then becomes a "photography" trip, which is less acceptable to me. But I'm not trying to impose that judgement on anyone else.
If, as I said, the more detailed guidance suggests that angling (or some comparable activity) is considered acceptable then I will rethink that view
Just had an email re game shooting...apparently driven shooting will not be permitted, but rough shooting and pest control can continue as long as people follow the corvid guide line..if that's the case, it's hard to see how photography could not continue...No mention of the travel aspect though....
D
darkroom12
Guest
I think like all laws this will have to be tried and tested. Especially as it is not really that specific. The section 11 contains the following
"to spend time or exercise outdoors - this should be done locally wherever possible, but you can travel to do so if necessary (for example, to access an open space)" This I interpret is so long as you don't travel an excessive distance then will be OK. Some of the places I have in mind are truly deserted. Like I said a lot of sheep, and abandoned farmhouses cracking walking country and at most 10 miles away from where I live. There are closer places but they tend to be busier with other walkers unless you go 1st thing in the morning
That to me is common sense to avoid them and go a little further away.
It is less distance to the centre of Durham to walk along the river bank, but that will be busy especially with students from the university where they had over 900 confirmed infections recently which was one of the reasons for the spike in the Durham area.
"to spend time or exercise outdoors - this should be done locally wherever possible, but you can travel to do so if necessary (for example, to access an open space)" This I interpret is so long as you don't travel an excessive distance then will be OK. Some of the places I have in mind are truly deserted. Like I said a lot of sheep, and abandoned farmhouses cracking walking country and at most 10 miles away from where I live. There are closer places but they tend to be busier with other walkers unless you go 1st thing in the morning
That to me is common sense to avoid them and go a little further away.
It is less distance to the centre of Durham to walk along the river bank, but that will be busy especially with students from the university where they had over 900 confirmed infections recently which was one of the reasons for the spike in the Durham area.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Messages
- 1,140
- Name
- Mike
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Isn't the CORVID guide lines only for crows?
- Messages
- 3,251
- Name
- Graham
- Edit My Images
- No
Latest specific guidance:
"You can spend time for exercise and recreation in public outdoor spaces such as parks, playgrounds, and public gardens whether entry is paid or not."
First time recreation has been mentioned in the guidance, so it looks like photography should have government blessing.
edit: should also mention this guidance also says:
There is no limit to the amount of time you can spend outside for exercise. (although not mentioned, its in the same block of text as they say exercise and recreation)
www.gov.uk
The general guidance posted earlier includes
neighbourhood streets, parks, beaches, and the countryside
in its list of outdoor public spaces
"You can spend time for exercise and recreation in public outdoor spaces such as parks, playgrounds, and public gardens whether entry is paid or not."
First time recreation has been mentioned in the guidance, so it looks like photography should have government blessing.
edit: should also mention this guidance also says:
There is no limit to the amount of time you can spend outside for exercise. (although not mentioned, its in the same block of text as they say exercise and recreation)
[Withdrawn] Coronavirus (COVID-19): advice on accessing green spaces safely
Advice on using green spaces and protecting yourself and others from coronavirus.
The general guidance posted earlier includes
neighbourhood streets, parks, beaches, and the countryside
in its list of outdoor public spaces
Last edited:
It's just common sense, if you want to have a walk in the Lake District, if you live in Cumbria thats acceptable if you live in Manchester then it's not, same for people from Birmingham having a walk on the nearest beach. Some woman has just been fined for driving to Wales to look at a horse, she came from Leicester!
Far to many trying to twist this situation to suit themselves, 30mins drive from home should be all thats needed, if you have to go further than that you're just trying it on.
Far to many trying to twist this situation to suit themselves, 30mins drive from home should be all thats needed, if you have to go further than that you're just trying it on.
Mr Badger
Didymus
- Messages
- 7,457
- Edit My Images
- No
Well said; as my Grandma used to say, "Never take your pleasure at anyone else's expense". So let's be careful out there.
Remember who you are, what you are, and who you represent.
- Messages
- 6,948
- Name
- Rob
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I was out on White Moss this morning just after sunrise (I’ve been up here since Saturday afternoon and staying in Ambleside that’s 5-10 mins away). Another photographer came long and said he‘d just driven up from Manchester as he’d come up to get out before lockdown travel restrictions start. I didn’t say it to him but swear Manchester is in tier 3 with travel restrictions already in place. We noticed a lot more groups out in the lakes today (we mainly saw couples up to today). Clearly people were trying to get one more get together before lockdown restrictions start tomorrow.
D
darkroom12
Guest
However I live closer to Newcastle than the moors I like walking in, but there is no way I would go to Newcastle to go for a walk (as photogenic as it is) there are just too many people and it does have a high rate of infection as has Durham City. Mostly quite likely due to the influx of students when the Freshers weeks were on
- Messages
- 15,361
- Name
- Jeff
- Edit My Images
- No
I’m glad this has been clarified a bit , living in wales we are not supposed to visit England ,but I personally think that’s OTT and will meani can’t go walkabout in some of my hot spots , I will see how this progresses over the next few weeks but does raise a glimmer of hope
- Messages
- 5,264
- Name
- Lee
- Edit My Images
- Yes
woof woof
I like a nice Chianti
- Messages
- 39,624
- Name
- Alan
- Edit My Images
- No
I seemed to cope well during the lockdown earlier in the year but this time I'm struggling. I do tend to dip in the winter with SAD I suppose and although it hasn't been as bad since I left work right now I've had enough of this and I'm just longing for it to end. Getting out for a couple of hours with a camera would be a godsend for me even if the weather and light are as poor as they usually are.
So yes, I'd say that getting out for a bit with a camera could be good recreation and good for mental health and overall wellbeing.
So yes, I'd say that getting out for a bit with a camera could be good recreation and good for mental health and overall wellbeing.
Best bet is try to get out regardless of whether it's for photography or not...maybe get out your OS map and explore all the nooks and crannies of your local area and see what's there...I think we have all driven past public footpath signs but never stopped to walk them...Now is the time to do just that...
D
darkroom12
Guest
Recreation or hobby, call it what you will there is not much difference is there? Some play football or gold they are the same.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Messages
- 15,361
- Name
- Jeff
- Edit My Images
- No
there using ANPR round here lee ,got to cover some of there losses and the secret policemans ball is coming up soonIf we swap ID, you can photograph England, and I'll happily photograph Wales
D
darkroom12
Guest
If local history is something you are interested in, have a look at the National Library Of Scotland website they have digitised old large scale ordnance maps 25" to a mile) of all of UK and you can trace what was there around about the turn of the 19th/20th Century and on the web pages there is a slider where you can look down on what there is no by means of a link to Google earth. This is the direct link
https://maps.nls.uk/os/25inch-england-and-wales/
The slider is in the bottom left hand corner with a blue spot which moves left to right or vice versa. I usually use the centre one of the 3 which is the 25" to a mile maps between 1880/1920.
Last edited by a moderator:
Mr Badger
Didymus
- Messages
- 7,457
- Edit My Images
- No
Do try to avoid using any footpaths that run through farmyards or the gardens of occupied properties. The last thing anyone needs during lockdown is an increase in the number of people wandering past in close proximity to them, and potentially contaminating gates, etc. so please let's share some courtesy and consideration during the pandemic.
Last edited:
My main passion is metal detecting, and I use that site quite a bit for research, although I tend use the side by side mapping function..its an excellent site with a lot of maps...even the more recent OS maps of your area from say the the 50s and 60s can be very enlightening...What part of Wales are you in? I am on the border between Mold and Chester in the north, and the police around here have been stopping folks in one of the big shopping areas checking if they be travelled from England and issuing fines accordingly...Apparently not much leniency or guidance being given, just fines!there using ANPR round here lee ,got to cover some of there losses and the secret policemans ball is coming up soon
- Messages
- 2,358
- Name
- Mike
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I think this BBC article is quite a good summary of changes between Lockdown 2.0 and Lockdown 1.0. Obviously they are paraphrasing the official guidance, so wouldn't stand up in a court of law, but refers to "spending time outdoors" plus you can "travel if necessary". I think the latter could be very much open for interpretation, however I think it would be difficult for people to be stopped travelling as long as they are obeying all other guidance e.g. just with your household, support bubble or individually (or with pre-school children) with one other person outside your household as long as you socially distance:
Covid: Nine ways England's lockdown is different from last time
There's a familiar feeling as England returns to lockdown, but many rules have changed.
www.bbc.co.uk
- Messages
- 2,049
- Name
- T
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I will will be popping out on my pushbike with camera and some lenses in a bag. I can then achieve all requirements, some exercise and taking some photos.
If I do get stopped by the police I will just say 'I am testing my eyes for 30mins' lust should get me out of any trouble ! ! ! ! !
The police may want to give out more fines and there are people who will blatantly break the rules i.e raves, house parties etc. I am sure the police will be targeting them rather than me on my own cycling around taking photos !
If I do get stopped by the police I will just say 'I am testing my eyes for 30mins' lust should get me out of any trouble ! ! ! ! !
The police may want to give out more fines and there are people who will blatantly break the rules i.e raves, house parties etc. I am sure the police will be targeting them rather than me on my own cycling around taking photos !
- Messages
- 2,249
- Name
- Lee
- Edit My Images
- No
This link is the breakdown of what we can and cannot do as from the 5th November 2020:-
Living safely with respiratory infections, including COVID-19
Guidance for living safely with respiratory infections, including coronavirus (COVID-19).
There is a section close to the bottom about exercise and walking which should be done in the local area but you may travel to somewhere quieter (section 11)
I was wondering if I can travel late afternoon on the london underground from where I am in Finchley to St. Pauls tube station, about a 45 minute journey. I'd be armed with camera bag and tripod and want to do some long exposure photos of one or two of the bridges, like the Millenium Bridge.
I've highlighted bits from that government guidance:
If you live in England, you cannot travel within the UK, unless for work, education or other legally permitted reasons, and you should look to reduce the number of journeys you make. However you can and should still travel for a number of reasons, including:
- travelling to work where this cannot be done from home
- travelling to education and for caring responsibilities
- to visit those in your support bubble - or your childcare bubble for childcare
- hospital, GP and other medical appointments or visits where you have had an accident or are concerned about your health
- to buy goods or services from premises that are open, including essential retail
- to spend time or exercise outdoors - this should be done locally wherever possible, but you can travel to do so if necessary (for example, to access an open space)
- attending the care and exercise of a pet, or veterinary services
So it looks like I'm allowed? But I'm wondering if setting up a tripod on, around or below the bridge will be seen as acceptable with regards to other people being in proximity. On the other hand, there may not be many people around there.
D
darkroom12
Guest
I think common sense must prevail. If there is a likely hood of causing an obstruction then I would think again. They then may say you are not exercising in accordance with 'exercise'. Fines are now £200 a pop! You could always argue a Fixed penalty notice in Magistrates Court but I don't think it would get you anywhere.
- Messages
- 1,140
- Name
- Mike
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Very definitely against the spirit of the rules. Travel to access open spaces is allowed but I hardly think 45 minutes on a tube is even remotely similar to the travel needed for you to reach open spaces. Not as bad as driving from London to Durham, but I hardly think the average person would have got away with that....