Jessops returns

mjmountain said:
It isn't up to consumers to change shopping habits, it's up to retailers to adapt.
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It is precisely because consumers have changed their shopping habits that these retailers are failing.
If you're happy to see the local store fail then, by all means continue to support the large faceless interweb retailers.
If you want to keep your local High Street offering then don't expect them to offer the discounts that the high volume resellers can.
It is totally up to consumers which business they support.
 
Twigman said:
It is precisely because consumers have changed their shopping habits that these retailers are failing.
If you're happy to see the local store fail then, by all means continue to support the large faceless interweb retailers.
If you want to keep your local High Street offering then don't expect them to offer the discounts that the high volume resellers can.
It is totally up to consumers which business they support.
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Yes but then our man wants to keep using the retailers to check the products out he buys off the web - cake and eat it scenario
 
Dave70D said:
Plain YES or NO, is it a crime to pay less online and get the camera cheaper than the store, NO Crime is being done :):cool:
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Dave, no its not a *crime* (and I would even question the term immoral which was being bandied about) ... but you do (Yes or No) agree that if people use demo facilities, etc. and then buy online, they are quickening the demise of the high street camera store?
 
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Eloise said:
Dave, no its not a *crime* (and I would even question the term immoral which was being banded about) ... but you do (Yes or No) agree that if people use demo facilities, etc. and then buy online, they are quickening the demise of the high street camera store?
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This is my thoughts on it even though I am NOT great with words. I go in to say my local Jessops store £1099 for the X camera, hello can I have a look at said camera please, I have a look then see it is even £100 cheaper, then for ME I want the camera NOW so my Jessops store will ALWAYS get my money, hope that answers you :) The internet can be helpful, but it can also be bad.

On the demise thing, I think it is a hell of a cheek to try in store then go and buy online.
 
Twigman said:
It is totally up to consumers which business they support.
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No - it really isn't. Customers will always frequent the retailer that they consider gives them the best value. Regardless of whether you agree with them or not, it will happen. Businesses must adapt to the market, expecting the market to adapt to the business is just lunacy.
 
Dave70D said:
On the demise thing, I think it is a hell of a cheek to try in store then go and buy online.
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bringing it back to my very first post, say you try it in store in Jessops, then leave to think about it, and buy online through Jessops to enjoy the distance selling regs. Is that cheek?
 
Overexposed said:
Yes but then our man wants to keep using the retailers to check the products out he buys off the web - cake and eat it scenario
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No I don't, but if I'm out shopping and I go in, and they have one I can demo then I'll check it out. But I'm equally happy buying it online and returning it.
 
mjmountain said:
Customers will always frequent the retailer that they consider gives them the best value.
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maybe so - you perceive the local High Street store offers you no added value over the faceless interweb retailer -

You should've gone to Specsavers
 
Eloise said:
they are quickening the demise of the high street camera store?
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No, high business rates, high parking charges, lack of laws on tax avoidance, old fashioned business models - that's what's killing high street independent retailers, be they book shops, camera shops, music shops or any other. Otherwise it would be only camera shops that have an issue.
 
mjmountain said:
bringing it back to my very first post, say you try it in store in Jessops, then leave to think about it, and buy online through Jessops to enjoy the distance selling regs. Is that cheek?
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and yet here (see quote below) you cite WEX as the interweb retailer - I'll hazard a guess that the camera shop you wander in to isn't WEX



mjmountain said:
LOL No!

Here's the scenario, I'll walk you through it. Hopefully it may clarify things.

  • I want to buy a camera
  • I research cameras I like on the internet and pick a couple
  • I go to a camera shop, can I have a look at this camera please?
  • I look at the camera
  • I ask the price
  • They give me the price
  • I google the price.
  • Their price is £50 higher than Wex, I ask if they'll price match.
  • They say no.
  • I walk away and buy the product online.
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mjmountain said:
bringing it back to my very first post, say you try it in store in Jessops, then leave to think about it, and buy online through Jessops to enjoy the distance selling regs. Is that cheek?
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If it means you are going to the store to pick it up, once ordered then NO.
 
mjmountain said:
Customers will always frequent the retailer that they consider gives them the best value. [...] Businesses must adapt to the market, expecting the market to adapt to the business is just lunacy.
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You're right ... but you are ignoring the fact that "best value" (for most people) isn't just about who is the cheapest. And if you want to use value added services and for value added services to continue to exist in the market place then something factors other than price need to be considered. In the face of internet competition; services such as offering display models for demonstration IS part of the businesses adapting but all you see (from what you write here) is the price sticker.

All businesses can compete for the lowest cost, but that just leads to a lowest common denominator.

PS. I would agree with you that councils and landlords could do more in helping with the survival of the high street. But thats not the discussion here.
 
Eloise said:
You're right ... but you are ignoring the fact that "best value" (for most people) isn't just about who is the cheapest.
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...in which case the Camera shops won't be at risk and the whole argument is moot. I disagree though. I think in the age of instant information more and more people immediately google for the lowest price.
 
Twigman said:
So being able to inspect an item before purchase has no value to you?
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Only if I'm actually "in town" - which is rare. Like I said before- I'm time poor so it's actually easier and more convenient for me to get orders delivered. But it's certainly not worth £50, maybe £5.
 
mjmountain said:
Oh good grief - can you simply not grasp the fact that it simply doesn't add any value for me?
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We understand that ... for you it doesn't add anything you consider of value. Yet you (it appears) cannot grasp the fact that by going into Jessops (to use a company name almost at random :) ) and using their facilities to hold and demonstrate the camera, you ARE using their facilities; facilities that they have to pay for and factor into the cost of doing business. So in a way you are abusing the company.

If it is of no value to you: why do you feel the need to go in to Jessops (or another retail store) and try the camera?
 
mjmountain said:
No, high business rates, high parking charges, lack of laws on tax avoidance, old fashioned business models - that's what's killing high street independent retailers, be they book shops, camera shops, music shops or any other. Otherwise it would be only camera shops that have an issue.
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Actually all those you mention ... book shops; cameras shops; music shops ... are all up against the same problems of people browsing in store and then purchasing online.

Its also ironic (imo) that you mention lack of laws on tax avoidance ... while supporting the model of company who is most likely to be avoiding tax!

As for "old fashioned business models" ... thats just plain old customer services!
 
Eloise said:
We understand that ... for you it doesn't add anything you consider of value. Yet you (it appears) cannot grasp the fact that by going into Jessops (to use a company name almost at random :) ) and using their facilities to hold and demonstrate the camera, you ARE using their facilities; facilities that they have to pay for and factor into the cost of doing business. So in a way you are abusing the company.

If it is of no value to you: why do you feel the need to go in to Jessops (or another retail store) and try the camera?
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My motive isn't to go in and try it, then leave, my motive is to go in, try it - compare the price with elsewhere and potentially buy it - however these days they tend to be a lot more expensive than trusted online retailers - especially the independents. Retailers want people in the store, they have more chance of selling things when someone goes in. The cost/benefit becomes a trade off between owning it "now" and saving X pounds.

But my general point - regardless of my motivations is that this is the general direction things are travelling in and that high street retailers have to adapt and change to survive by offering services that compete favourably with online retailers. What those are really isn't my problem to solve.
 
Eloise said:
Actually all those you mention ... book shops; cameras shops; music shops ... are all up against the same problems of people browsing in store and then purchasing online.

Its also ironic (imo) that you mention lack of laws on tax avoidance ... while supporting the model of company who is most likely to be avoiding tax!

As for "old fashioned business models" ... thats just plain old customer services!
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Wex are avoiding paying tax? Camera Jungle are? They're the two shops I bought from last.
 
mjmountain said:
by offering services that compete favourably with online retailers.
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So you're saying that the services they offer at the moment do not compete favourably with online retailers?
What services would you like to see retailers offer that they currently do not?
What would make you buy from the High Street rather than the online retailer?
You must recognise that price matching just isn't an economic model for the high Street, so how would they get your custom back?
 
Twigman said:
So you're saying that the services they offer at the moment do not compete favourably with online retailers?
What services would you like to see retailers offer that they currently do not?
What would make you buy from the High Street rather than the online retailer?
You must recognise that price matching just isn't an economic model for the high Street, so how would they get your custom back?
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Again - "if" (as I keep being told) Independent camera retailers are in decline then they must adapt to survive. It isn't up to me to solve how - I can make suggestions, but you will rebut them saying they are impractical, unachievable. In which case it isn't a viable business model and most stores will eventually shut down due to lack of custom. This is neither my fault, nor my problem.
 
mjmountain said:
I can make suggestions,.
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Go on then - that's what I was asking of you.

If 'price match' is your only suggestion then even you must realise that that just isn't economically viable - you're asking for something for nothing.
 
mjmountain said:
Why is this my problem to solve?
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It's not..

You stated that the high street didn't offer a service to compete with online retailers.
I'm merely asking you what service you would like to see offered by the high street that currently isn't offered.
 
mjmountain said:
Wex are avoiding paying tax? Camera Jungle are? They're the two shops I bought from last.
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Well I was more considering Amazon and its ilk... though most retail chains avoid tax as much as possible! (Note: tax avoidance is legal, tax evasion is illegal)

Wex is a chain I would put on a level with Jessops. Camera Jungle are hard to compare as they are (afaik) only selling second hand equipment and are owned by Jessops.

As I (think I) commented earlier ... I do think its rather ironic that companies like Jessops are now struggling against the new Online retailers ... when it was them that caused the demise of many of the independent retailers. Was the same with (in books and music/video retailing) HMV and Waterstones.
 
Twigman said:
It's not..

You stated that the high street didn't offer a service to compete with online retailers.
I'm merely asking you what service you would like to see offered by the high street that currently isn't offered.
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I really don't know - for me price matching would definitely work. However I think they'll have to specialise further to survive.

Things that may work for others?
  • Free sensor cleaning/maintenance options. (i'd much rather drop my camera off at a store for a service than post it away, leverage that fear.)
  • Ability to return like online retailers (would work for the likes of Jessops that also have an online presence).
  • Agreed "trade in" prices (in 12 months time we'll buy this back for....)
  • Interest free payment plans
 
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ChrisHeathcote said:
To get back on track as this thread is now going around in circles and having just read through the last 3 pages, opinions aren’t going to change has @marcg868 reached an agreement. If he has disappeared then for the love of god can someone please lock the thread :)
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Best thing that`s been said, I`d like to hear.
 
Dave70D said:
@Marcel could someone please put a stop to this mess :)
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Why do you get involved and then want it stopped, not the first time you have called for a mod to lock a thread (and got a knock back)

Blimey, it's only words, don't keep looking if it upsets you, no one's got injured or emotionally scarred for life
 
tijuana taxi said:
Why do you get involved and then want it stopped, not the first time you have called for a mod to lock a thread (and got a knock back)

Blimey, it's only words, don't keep looking if it upsets you, no one's got injured or emotionally scarred for life
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I am thinking of the OP, as it went off the rails ages before I said a word.
 
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