Keyless

Mr Bump said:
I've never realy understood keyless outside the realm of silly cars either.
for me I find my key fob I walk to the car and when I get about 5 metres away I press the open button.
I get in the car insert the key and turn it engine starts I drive. off.
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I've never really understood remote central locking, I walk to the car and when I get there, I insert the key and unlock the door.. ;)
 
Keyless entry is less secure than button press on fob to unlock.

Curious from posts above that some manufacturers allow it to be disabled in the car menu.

I think it’s only Jaguar Land Rover that have effective anti-relay measures for keyless.

Personally I wouldn’t buy keyless; not just because of the relay issues but I do sometimes check my car door is locked and with keyless it would unlock as I went to check it......
 
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JohnM100 said:
Personally I wouldn’t buy keyless; not just because of the relay issues but I do sometimes check my car door is locked and with keyless it would unlock as I went to check it......
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Surely it depends how you check it. I lock mine by touching a dimple (on the outside of the door handle) twice. The doors lock and central locking activates door mirrors fold in and the hazards flash. If I want to recheck the car is locked, I just touch the dimple again, the servos for the central locking will click again and the hazards will flash again confirming it is locked. The doors will only unlock if my hand enters the space behind the handle. The car doesn't even unlock if I am standing next to the car and someone tries to open one of the other doors.

Keyless entry is only really an extra function similar to global window closing, or single door unlock or all doors unlock. If it is programmed into the pcm and the sensors are in the door handle then it can be activated or deactivated.
 
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JohnM100 said:
Keyless entry is less secure than button press on fob to unlock.

Curious from posts above that some manufacturers allow it to be disabled in the car menu.

I think it’s only Jaguar Land Rover that have effective anti-relay measures for keyless.

Personally I wouldn’t buy keyless; not just because of the relay issues but I do sometimes check my car door is locked and with keyless it would unlock as I went to check it......
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When I had it on my old Focus, I was able to pull on the handle straight after without it unlocking. With the Ioniq, you have to press the button on the door to lock AND unlock it.
 
Our 2018 BMW X3 has fobs which go to sleep if you put them down & don't move them.
 
JohnM100 said:
Personally I wouldn’t buy keyless; not just because of the relay issues but I do sometimes check my car door is locked and with keyless it would unlock as I went to check it......
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That would be quite the infinite loop! lol

I think keyless is pretty easy to disable via the actuator unit behind the door card, just unplug the keyless bit. Could depend on the car though.
 
JohnM100 said:
I do sometimes check my car door is locked and with keyless it would unlock as I went to check it......
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Hold the fob at arm's length away from the door and the car doesn't sense the thing - IIRC the fob needs to be within 1m of the door that's being opened. Also, the mirrors fold in when the doors are locked (in the case of my car, anyway!)

Unplugging a sensor behind the door card might be easy but it's a PITA getting the liners off my doors!
 
JohnM100 said:
I think it’s only Jaguar Land Rover that have effective anti-relay measures for keyless.

.
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They don’t.. well maybe in the very latest models. Disco 4s are being nicked daily with this method. Lots of videos on the forums from peoples security cams capturing the 30 seconds it takes for them to get in and get gone. It’s now widely published on the owners fourms to disable it via the Ccf
 
gman said:
I think keyless is pretty easy to disable via the actuator unit behind the door card, just unplug the keyless bit. Could depend on the car though.
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Or just pull the relative fuse.
 
gman said:
Jaguar by any chance?
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Yup. XF. I leave it to the specialist if something needs doing - they have the tools, software and expertise to sort it if it needs attention!
 
My dad simply starts his car with an app, cars is nice and warm or cold whatever you choose, and he just walks up and unlocks, no need to even press start :)
 
Kieranstandishphoto said:
My dad simply starts his car with an app, cars is nice and warm or cold whatever you choose, and he just walks up and unlocks, no need to even press start :)
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If I were your Dad, i would look into the legality of that as it is illegal to leave a car engine running unattended in the UK.
 
Nod said:
Yup. XF. I leave it to the specialist if something needs doing - they have the tools, software and expertise to sort it if it needs attention!
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Aye thought as much, those door cards are on solid but at least the plastic fixings seem to be fairly strong whereas the Honda ones snap very easily.

Know what you mean about repairs, I got an icarsoft 2 just so I know what the fault will be before deciding whether or not to book it in.
 
If all of you are worried about thieves using technology to unlock your keyless cars.

Buy one of those Stoplock bars or anything similar.

gettyimages-459014809-1024x1024.jpg
 
Major Eazy said:
If all of you are worried about thieves using technology to unlock your keyless cars.

Buy one of those Stoplock bars or anything similar.

View attachment 238930
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It does make me laugh a little inside when a see a modern car with these physical security devices, the idea that we have come full circle.

Not that it would stop me getting the car I want mind.
 
Kieranstandishphoto said:
This is possibly one of the easiest devices to bypass, a junior hacksaw, 15 seconds and its off :)
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I had one of those, fairly sure even the yellow plastic bit was coating metal. A junior hacksaw would take quite a while to saw through it.
I, however, now use a Disklok which I have modified for extra security.
 
My (custom performance modified) throbbin' red chariot has a choice of maps via a special key to the OBD port. One of the choices is to disable the engine so that if some scumbag does get into my car uninvited they ain't going anywhere!

Otherwise she has the standard remote locking/unlocking keyfob which I find extremely useful. All these things like keyless are just marketing gimmicks like other so-called 'driving aids' which lull drivers into laziness. But you are talking to someone who hates and never even uses cruise control. I like the security and ignition systems on the high-end Audis and BMW X5 Msport I have been given as loaners.
 
nilagin said:
I had one of those, fairly sure even the yellow plastic bit was coating metal. A junior hacksaw would take quite a while to saw through it.
I, however, now use a Disklok which I have modified for extra security.
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That is why thieves think outside the box, you cut the steering wheel at the side of the lock :)
 
Major Eazy said:
If all of you are worried about thieves using technology to unlock your keyless cars.

Buy one of those Stoplock bars or anything similar.

View attachment 238930
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These are useless, can be opened with a strong screwdriver or as what happened to one of my customers, cut the steering wheel!!
If you want a decent steering lock, use disklok.

As for the keyless entry, an aftermarket alarm/immobiliser or the ghost system would be best option.

Also blocking you drive way would slow them down too.

But if someone wants it so bad, they will find a way to take it.
 
When I had my M135, that wouldn't allow you to put it into "drive" without the key in the car. So, you could if you were so so inclined, start it up in the morning, put the heater, screen & seat heaters on, lock it, and go back indoors to finish your coffee.

I don't think my Clubman has this facility, but I love the keyless operation. Key stays in my pocket when I'm in the car, and in a lead lined wooden box in the bedroom when not. As my garage & drive are at the end of my back garden, I'm confident that it's pretty safe.

The other little tip I will add is if you have folding mirrors, get into the habit of doing this when leaving the car, that way if you look back at the car and the mirrors are out, you know you haven't locked it.
 
Full disc lock is better, I think it takes about 5 minutes rather than 30 seconds.
 
gman said:
Full disc lock is better, I think it takes about 5 minutes rather than 30 seconds.
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I have got one of those locks that goes over the whole steering wheel. I bought it when I had my Focus ST as they were a prime target for thieves, but I can no longer find the keys !! :banghead::banghead:
 
gman said:
Full disc lock is better, I think it takes about 5 minutes rather than 30 seconds.
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Mine will take a lot longer than 5 minutes to break or cut off and as it would need use of an angle grinder to do so, it would be very noisy and in danger of setting something alight unless they bring some fireproof welding blankets with them.
 
nilagin said:
Mine will take a lot longer than 5 minutes to break or cut off and as it would need use of an angle grinder to do so, it would be very noisy and in danger of setting something alight unless they bring some fireproof welding blankets with them.
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I think Disklok themselves do replacement keys.
 
Raj_p said:
These are useless, can be opened with a strong screwdriver or as what happened to one of my customers, cut the steering wheel!!
If you want a decent steering lock, use disklok.

As for the keyless entry, an aftermarket alarm/immobiliser or the ghost system would be best option.

Also blocking you drive way would slow them down too.

But if someone wants it so bad, they will find a way to take it.
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Well, at minimum it is better than nothing. It is better to have something, even if it is unless, than nothing at all.

Of course, thieves will find a way if they really want the car. But I saw on BBC News (or The One Show) in which they mention that most thieves prefer to try to use technology to take the keyless car as quietly as possible. If they find at minimum a Stoplock bar across the steering wheel, and that if you are lucky enough, the thief is more experienced or smart, there may be a chance the thief skips that car and find another keyless car somewhere else.

If the thief is either a first timer or a stupid one, they may try to use the technology to get into a keyless car, then break open the Stoplock bar or cut the steering wheel, but made too much noise doing so. Plus there is the risk of accidently cutting his hand, and leave some drops of blood, or the risk of steal the car, take to a hideaway, open the kit bag, and mutter "Blast! I dropped the hacksaw at that house!"

I would agree with you that maybe those Stoplock bars are unless, but as you pointed out, if thieves want it so bad, they will find a way. Even if you use something like Disklok, and one of those arm locks that lock the gear stick to the handbrake, surely some thieves would be still willing to have a go anyway.

Better something than nothing even if it is unless. It won't stop the thieves but you could hope to cut down the chances.
 
Jelster said:
I have got one of those locks that goes over the whole steering wheel. I bought it when I had my Focus ST as they were a prime target for thieves, but I can no longer find the keys !! :banghead::banghead:
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Ooooooopps!!!

You didn't happen to lose both keys at the same time? So now you do have a keyless steering wheel lock? :)
 
nilagin said:
Mine will take a lot longer than 5 minutes to break or cut off and as it would need use of an angle grinder to do so, it would be very noisy and in danger of setting something alight unless they bring some fireproof welding blankets with them.
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3 minutes 32 seconds for this disc lock but it does seem to be the best form of defence because of the time and noise.

 
gman said:
3 minutes 32 seconds for this disc lock but it does seem to be the best form of defence because of the time and noise.

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Thieves may as well wear a t-shirt saying I'm going to steal a keyless car, since using tools to cut open those disc locks makes noise. :)
 
When I had my Focus ST, a guy in the owners club came home from work to find his car missing from his drive. It had a physical deterrent (DiskLok) plus an electronic one. His neighbour said that two guys came with one of those crane like things on a truck and took it away. When the neighbour challenged them, he was told that they were recovering it for the finance company.... They guy bought it cash.

If they really want it, they'll take it.
 
gman said:
3 minutes 32 seconds for this disc lock but it does seem to be the best form of defence because of the time and noise.

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I have seen that video before hence making modifications to mine. For one the Disklok can't be spun round into a convenient position for cutting as in the video.
I have 5 different means of additional security on the car over the factory alarm and immobiliser. I can remove it all in less than 30 seconds but it would take a lot of time and noise for a thief to bypass it all.
Even if the car wasn't keyless, I would still be using all the extra security.
 
nilagin said:
I have seen that video before hence making modifications to mine. For one the Disklok can't be spun round into a convenient position for cutting as in the video.
I have 5 different means of additional security on the car over the factory alarm and immobiliser. I can remove it all in less than 30 seconds but it would take a lot of time and noise for a thief to bypass it all.
Even if the car wasn't keyless, I would still be using all the extra security.
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That's a lot of security Neil... What car do you drive?
 
Jelster said:
That's a lot of security Neil... What car do you drive?
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Focus RS. It's black instead of the more popular Nitrous Blue, so not so noticeable. Another layer of security in itself. ;)
 
Keyless entry is good for those who use handbag, allowing them to unlock and driveaway without digging in their bag. For those keeping keys in their pockets, myself included, pressing a button in the pocket as you walk up to the car is not too difficult. So depending on who uses it, I've no problem disable this feature, but my wife likes it.

One thing I love with keyless start is that you won't have to try to stick the key into some hole not visible to your seated position. Far easier and quicker to press a button.

Actually, why do we need this additional button-press step?
Sit in the car, car detects key is in the car and driver door is closed, the action of pressing brake pedal and moving to D is more than clear enough signal to the car. At the other end, the action of coming to stop, putting the car to P and getting out of the car and walking off with the key is very clear signal to let the car know it's time to shut off and lock itself.
 
wuyanxu said:
Keyless entry is good for those who use handbag, allowing them to unlock and driveaway without digging in their bag. For those keeping keys in their pockets, myself included, pressing a button in the pocket as you walk up to the car is not too difficult. So depending on who uses it, I've no problem disable this feature, but my wife likes it.

One thing I love with keyless start is that you won't have to try to stick the key into some hole not visible to your seated position. Far easier and quicker to press a button.

Actually, why do we need this additional button-press step?
Sit in the car, car detects key is in the car and driver door is closed, the action of pressing brake pedal and moving to D is more than clear enough signal to the car. At the other end, the action of coming to stop, putting the car to P and getting out of the car and walking off with the key is very clear signal to let the car know it's time to shut off and lock itself.
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When I go to work I have a work bag and gym bag to carry so fumbling in my pocket to press a button would be a pain. If I going directly to the gym, my remote will be in my pocket in my bag so would be even more of a pain to press a button to unlock the car.
As for not needing a start stop button all cars require an ignition switch of some sort without starting the engine, and your idea won't work on manual cars anyway.
 
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