Large Format photography group - From "zero to hero!"

sirch said:
Thanks all. Does anyone know anything about import duties on lenses from Japan, all of the above seem to be available from there at reasonable prices.

I think I need to have a measure up becuase there isn't a lot of room at the sharp end of the MPP bellows so that might be a deciding factor.

Thanks for the kind offer @StephenM but I'll probably just buy one and you make a good point about f8 vs f5.6, I've had a fresnel GG for a few years now and it is nice and bright so that issue is less of a concern.
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Yeah youll get whacked with 20-30% on what you pay through import tax and fees. I bought the 55-100 6x7 for £300 in mint condition and it went up to £380, very steep and a definite lesson - make sure you really want the lens. The most frustating part is they wont ship to anywhere except your billing address as I have relatives in the US where there import tax is zero.

Its very annoying as it seems they have somehow gathered all the stock in the world up and people in the uk prices their items the same in a lot worse condition
 
While I'm here @stevelmx5 - how feasible is it to scan and print new mounts for different systems. E.g all the great 6x7 glass with cameras that will eventually die. Can you take a mount from a dead 6x7 and adapt it to a 3d printed camera, can you scan and print one and as its pushing 70 years old the patent must be long dead on this equipment?

Would need a new shutter system as well but one problem at a time ey

Cheers
 
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acrobatic_Citron said:
While I'm here @stevelmx5 - how feasible is it to scan and print new mounts for different systems. E.g all the great 6x7 glass with cameras that will eventually die. Can you take a mount from a dead 6x7 and adapt it to a 3d printed camera, can you scan and print one and as its pushing 70 years old the patent must be long dead on this equipment?

Would need a new shutter system as well but one problem at a time ey

Cheers
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Re-engineering the mount is relatively easy in most cases, the shutter is definitely the more complex issue to resolve.

My camera systems essentially use two different mounts, Mamiya Press (with a rotating bayonet ring to lock the lens in place) and generic large format lenses that mount through threaded lens boards, fitted to a focusing helicoid. I've also got a Polaroid 600SE mount deigned, and am just waiting on a lens to test it out on.

Other systems are more complex, as they generally rely on the original body gearing to cock/fire the leaf shutters in the lens, e.g Hasselblad V and Mamiya RB. Whilst it's feasible to re-engineer the gearing to do this, it does make for much more complex designs, and would require machined metal gearing to cope with the forces required.

With regards to shutters, I've been working on two very different setups over the last 18 months. The largest is my electro-mechanical dual curtain focal plane shutter for large format cameras. This uses a pair of stepper motors to independently control each shutter blade, allowing for the gap between blades to be infinitely adjusted down to 0.5mm. This 'should' give shutter speeds up to 1/500th - 1/1000th on a shutter that covers 4x5, and my long term goal is to integrate it into a SnapShot style body, creating a new Speed Graphic.

The second shutter I've been testing out is an electro-magnetic shutter, which I'm integrating into the Cube camera that I currently build as a pinhole. The shutter would be used with my new 24mm F11 double element glass lens to create a very small point and shoot 135 camera.
 
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stevelmx5 said:
Re-engineering the mount is relatively easy in most cases, the shutter is definitely the more complex issue to resolve.

My camera systems essentially use two different mounts, Mamiya Press (with a rotating bayonet ring to lock the lens in place) and generic large format lenses that mount through threaded lens boards, fitted to a focusing helicoid. I've also got a Polaroid 600SE mount deigned, and am just waiting on a lens to test it out on.

Other systems are more complex, as they generally rely on the original body gearing to cock/fire the leaf shutters in the lens, e.g Hasselblad V and Mamiya RB. Whilst it's feasible to re-engineer the gearing to do this, it does make for much more complex designs, and would require machined metal gearing to cope with the forces required.

With regards to shutters, I've been working on two very different setups over the last 18 months. The largest is my electro-mechanical dual curtain focal plain shutter for large format cameras. This uses a pair of stepper motors to independently control each shutter blade, allowing for the gap between blades to be infinitely adjusted down to 0.5mm. This 'should' give shutter speeds up to 1/500th on a shutter that covers 4x5, and my long term goal is to integrate it into a SnapShot style body, creating a new Speed Graphic.

The second shutter I've been testing out is an electro-magnetic shutter, which I'm integrating into the Cube camera that I currently build as a pinhole. The shutter would be used with my new 24mm F11 double element glass lens to create a very small point and shoot 135 camera.
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Incredible looking forward to what you produce!
 
Who has bought all the Velvia 50 4x5 after its discontinuation? The only stuff on ebay seems to be expired
 
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I'm now the proud owner of a Chroma 4x5 large format camera. :)

I took it out of its bag yesterday and managed to get it set up on a tripod to have a play. I've not attempted to take any photographs yet - probably this week, all being well (and of subjects I can find around the house at this stage) - but I attached the lens to see how things worked. Getting used to the controls for the various movements is likely to take a while to become familiar, nevermind understanding how to use them to my best advantage (or indeed being familiar with how to open / collapse the camera!).

I have found it quite difficult to see the image on the ground glass (even with the darkcloth draped over me and the camera) and wonder if a fresnel screen would be a worthwhile purchase to improve this? I'm using a 135mm f/5.6 lens at present.

I've also bought a Nikon 4x loupe in order to aid focus, but it probably won't arrive before next week. If I try to get close enough to focus with the naked eye, I end up having to peer over the top of my glasses, which isn't ideal (and even then the detail is too small for me to be able to tell precisely). I did try using a 50mm lens from one of my 35mm cameras as an impromptu loupe, which did help a lot. Apart from this being a bit clumsy, I presume that this is a decent way to check focus? Or am I missing something?

Anyway, I'm sure I'll be littering this thread with questions over the coming days / weeks / months. :)
 
@stevelmx5 is probably the best person to advise on how much better a fresnel would be. I am surprised at the difficulty with a f/5.6 lens though, as this is normal for LF. I suppose that the lens is fully open, and not closed down when you're viewing?

A 50mm lens is a reasonable substitute for a loupe; Ihagee made a finder for the Exakta cameras that had a bayonet fitting to attach an Exakta mount lens to use to magnify the ground glass image.

Have fun experimenting.
 
StephenM said:
@stevelmx5 is probably the best person to advise on how much better a fresnel would be. I am surprised at the difficulty with a f/5.6 lens though, as this is normal for LF. I suppose that the lens is fully open, and not closed down when you're viewing?

A 50mm lens is a reasonable substitute for a loupe; Ihagee made a finder for the Exakta cameras that had a bayonet fitting to attach an Exakta mount lens to use to magnify the ground glass image.

Have fun experimenting.
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I think it was possibly due more to reflections than to brightness (and also perhaps down to me only having a brief play and not really knowing what I was doing :) ), but it was noticeably more difficult to see than, say, using a WLF on one of my MF cameras. Maybe that's just how it is though. I will adapt! And yes, the lens was open at f/5.6.
 
FishyFish said:
and wonder if a fresnel screen would be a worthwhile
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Best thing I did was get a fresnel. In doors is always going to be dim and I usually shine a desk lamp at the scene which really helps, also try to block out as much light all around, I found a standard dark cloth let too much light in from underneath so I got my daughter to make one that has a draw string and velcro to close it off. Alternatively something like a hoodie backwards works, put your head in the hood, with the bottom over the camera and look through the neck hole IYSWIM
 
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sirch said:
Best thing I did was get a fresnel. In doors is always going to be dim and I usually shine a desk lamp at the scene which really helps, also try to block out as much light all around, I found a standard dark cloth let too much light in from underneath so I got my daughter to make one that has a draw string and velcro to close it off. Alternatively something like a hoodie backwards works, put your head in the hood, with the bottom over the camera and look through the neck hole IYSWIM
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Thanks Chris. Yeah, I think that's the issue I was having - too much light getting underneath the darkcloth. I'll try the hoodie idea (or maybe a black t-shirt).
 
FishyFish said:
I'm now the proud owner of a Chroma 4x5 large format camera. :)

I took it out of its bag yesterday and managed to get it set up on a tripod to have a play. I've not attempted to take any photographs yet - probably this week, all being well (and of subjects I can find around the house at this stage) - but I attached the lens to see how things worked. Getting used to the controls for the various movements is likely to take a while to become familiar, nevermind understanding how to use them to my best advantage (or indeed being familiar with how to open / collapse the camera!).

I have found it quite difficult to see the image on the ground glass (even with the darkcloth draped over me and the camera) and wonder if a fresnel screen would be a worthwhile purchase to improve this? I'm using a 135mm f/5.6 lens at present.

I've also bought a Nikon 4x loupe in order to aid focus, but it probably won't arrive before next week. If I try to get close enough to focus with the naked eye, I end up having to peer over the top of my glasses, which isn't ideal (and even then the detail is too small for me to be able to tell precisely). I did try using a 50mm lens from one of my 35mm cameras as an impromptu loupe, which did help a lot. Apart from this being a bit clumsy, I presume that this is a decent way to check focus? Or am I missing something?

Anyway, I'm sure I'll be littering this thread with questions over the coming days / weeks / months. :)
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I always wondered whyvthere was a piece of glass attached to the rear of my LF cameras :exit::LOL::LOL:

LF is unlike other forms of photography in several ways , not least of all the focusing which is , as you are finding, is not as straightforward as using a WLF.

If necessary use bulldog clips to make the darkcloth into a tube with as little stray light entry as possible or as mentioned, a t shirt may prove a better option…..they do work quite well tbh.

As for a loupe, yes 4x should be fine.
I now have a 6x though in all honesty i can usually focus most scènes with my specs ( varifocals)

There is a learning curve with all the aspects of the format and yes you will ruin many sheets of film.
I mention this before you might decide that the format isnt for you after you stuff three out of four sheets during the initial learning process.

Who knows you may be a natural and fall straight into it, however if not,dont become dispondent.
Its a périod that will pass but not if you try force it.
Thats to say dont run before you can walk.

My advice would be to take your initial exposures using no mouvements and not to try something too close to the lens.
Reasons being that there is zlready enough to get to grips with focusing, preview, aperture and shutter opération, as well as using a dds.

Avoid subjects too close as you will be throwing yourself into another stage of learning about the effects and compensation requirements for bellows extension , not forgetting possible recipocracy issues too .

Of course these are areas that need to be learnt and inderstood but i would advise a newby to LF to concentrate on the lesser complicated basics of camera opération.

Swamp us all you want for info, éven for what you may think are dim questions……. I will help all i can as i’m sure will other LF togs( past and present).

Have fun and above all, enjoy !!
 
I shot 4 sheets with my MPP yesterday. Developed them today. Already knew that two would be underexposed as I had read the light meter incorrectly.

They are hanging in my shower drying at the moment so I will scan them tomorrow. Don't think I allowed enough for bellows extension so even the two that have something on the negative are going to be underexposed I think. If it wasn't raining all day I would shoot outside. Anyway, all part of the learning curve and such good fun.

You'll love this format Nige. Will make great Zines ;)
 
Here you go. Cropped scan of my third shot. Little bit of contrast work and some of detail sharpening.

Shot in my spare room/office using a bit of natural light coming from behind the spanners and the overhead light turned on.

Settings were 1 sec at F/5.6 using Fomapan 200 developed in Ilford DD-X 1+9 for 9 minutes (Massive Dev).

Fomapan 200 27 December 2022 FS2A (2).jpg
 
Asha said:
I always wondered whyvthere was a piece of glass attached to the rear of my LF cameras :exit::LOL::LOL:

LF is unlike other forms of photography in several ways , not least of all the focusing which is , as you are finding, is not as straightforward as using a WLF.

If necessary use bulldog clips to make the darkcloth into a tube with as little stray light entry as possible or as mentioned, a t shirt may prove a better option…..they do work quite well tbh.

As for a loupe, yes 4x should be fine.
I now have a 6x though in all honesty i can usually focus most scènes with my specs ( varifocals)

There is a learning curve with all the aspects of the format and yes you will ruin many sheets of film.
I mention this before you might decide that the format isnt for you after you stuff three out of four sheets during the initial learning process.

Who knows you may be a natural and fall straight into it, however if not,dont become dispondent.
Its a périod that will pass but not if you try force it.
Thats to say dont run before you can walk.

My advice would be to take your initial exposures using no mouvements and not to try something too close to the lens.
Reasons being that there is zlready enough to get to grips with focusing, preview, aperture and shutter opération, as well as using a dds.

Avoid subjects too close as you will be throwing yourself into another stage of learning about the effects and compensation requirements for bellows extension , not forgetting possible recipocracy issues too .

Of course these are areas that need to be learnt and inderstood but i would advise a newby to LF to concentrate on the lesser complicated basics of camera opération.

Swamp us all you want for info, éven for what you may think are dim questions……. I will help all i can as i’m sure will other LF togs( past and present).

Have fun and above all, enjoy !!
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Thanks Asha.

I don't think I'll become despondent and give up - I'm a Yorkshireman. I've spent good money on this gear and I will make it work if it's the last thing that I ever do! :LOL:

I expect that much will be about finding my feet with it all. In a similar way that the reversed image in a WLF was intitailly very difficult to control when framing an image, but now feels natural.
 
FishyFish said:
In a similar way that the reversed image in a WLF was initially very difficult to control when framing an image, but now feels natural.
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I actually found the inverted reversed image a bit easier to deal with than a WLF. For a start, not being one of @stevelmx5 's mad Snapshot things, it's fixed down on the tripod. But second, it reduces the image to formal lines and contrasting tones, which is probably a good thing! Elsewhere, I've seen advice of editing your prints (ie making selections) by turning them all upside down...
 
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@FishyFish are you likely to be using the taco method for devving your sheets in the short term, Nige? If so I'll send you the remains of my packet of hair tyes. I've not got enough hair to use them myself, and they are (supposedly) better than rubber bands because of their bumpy nature. Also, did you find the exposed sheet? If not, I'll have another search...
 
ChrisR said:
@FishyFish are you likely to be using the taco method for devving your sheets in the short term, Nige? If so I'll send you the remains of my packet of hair tyes. I've not got enough hair to use them myself, and they are (supposedly) better than rubber bands because of their bumpy nature. Also, did you find the exposed sheet? If not, I'll have another search...
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Thanks Chris. Yeah, I'll be using the taco method initially while I wait for my reel to arrive (it's on back-order). Don't worry about the hairbands though - I can pick some up locally for probably less than it would take you to post them (and my wife may even have some I can steal :)).

I found the exposed sheet, thanks.

In other news, I've exposed my first sheet this morning. Nothing fancy - just one of my kids' advent calendars - and I've no idea if it will come out ok. I used a 50mm lens as a loupe and the focus looked ok, but who knows until it's developed. I was going to take a photo of a potted plant, which looked quite nice in the viewfinder, but I wasn't sure* how to compensate for the .99EV that I reckon the bellows extension would require (I'm assuming I would have needed to add 1 stop of exposure or wider aperture?).

*Didn't have time to learn today. :)
 
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FishyFish said:
Yeah, I'll be using the taco method initially
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I can lend you the Stearman press 445 if you want to try it out as its quite the investment, better than the taco and a world easier than the paterson reels, 4 sheets for 450ml of solution and inserting the film is a dream

Let me know when you forget to stop down on a shot, I did it on my 4th sheet
 
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Brilliant. I meant to add, I had trouble with light leaks when withdrawing the dark slide. Keeping the dark cloth over while removing and returning helped, as did applying some pressure to keep the springs taut.

And don't forget to turn the dark slide the other way before returning it, so you know which sheets are exposed!

Somewhere in the bag there's a systematic sheet, which I never managed to follow in the field!
 
moggi1964 said:
That is a wonderful gesture and whilst I have never tried the taco method I cannot see it being any easier than the SP445. Take him up on it Nige ;)
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The taco method is NOT easy (at least, not easy with a damaged hand)! Fiddling about in the dark bag to get the film out of the holders and make it into tacos (with the emulsion on the inside, remember, remember!), that was the easy bit. Getting four tacos into the dev tank, arranged just so, then getting the centre column thingy in place without stripping off any of the bands, that was really hard. First time, only 3 sheets came out of the tank when dev was finished. I assumed I'd accidentally dropped the 4th sheet in the dark bag, but eventually found it plastered flat against the inside of the tank, with a hair band on the bottom!
 
acrobatic_Citron said:
I can lend you the Stearman press 445 if you want to try it out as its quite the investment, better than the taco and a world easier than the paterson reels, 4 sheets for 450ml of solution and inserting the film is a dream

Let me know when you forget to stop down on a shot, I did it on my 4th sheet
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Thanks, that would be much appreciated. I’ve got a 20th Century reel on back order at present, but no idea as to when it might arrive..

PM me details and I’ll cover the cost of postage etc.

(y)
 
Second exposure in the bag (or in the bin - who knows until I develop it! :LOL: ).

I need to sit down and spend some time to RTFM and get to know the camera better. I'm not sure if I've been zeroing the movements properly when I've opened the camera, so I need to get that sorted in my head.

The loupe I bought definitely makes focusing easier - even without a dark cloth I can get a decent look at what's on the ground glass when using it. I tried a t-shirt as a dark cloth today too which worked quite well (although I still felt like I was potentially about to become a bull in a china shop...).

I think I'll try to expose the next couple of shots outside somewhere - I expect a subject lit with daylight will be easier than shooting stuff in dimly lit indoor conditions (even with the kitchen spotlights on).

Chroma.jpg
 
Another shot made today. This one outdoors!

I went out to finish a roll of film that's been in my Olympus Trip for a while and took the Chroma with me too. I only took one picture - of a silver birch tree - and I'll be interested to see how it turns out. The 4x loupe was handy, although I'm already wondering if a higher magnification wouldn't be better - I'll have to see how the focus turns out in the shots I made today and yesterday. I'm aiming to use another sheet and will then dev them all in the Stearman Press tank that @acrobatic_Citron is kindly letting me borrow.
 
FishyFish said:
Another shot made today. This one outdoors!

I went out to finish a roll of film that's been in my Olympus Trip for a while and took the Chroma with me too. I only took one picture - of a silver birch tree - and I'll be interested to see how it turns out. The 4x loupe was handy, although I'm already wondering if a higher magnification wouldn't be better - I'll have to see how the focus turns out in the shots I made today and yesterday. I'm aiming to use another sheet and will then dev them all in the Stearman Press tank that @acrobatic_Citron is kindly letting me borrow.
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At some point (when I have some money) I need to get a loupe that will let me use it AND the rear fold out cover at the same time. A 50mm lens will do in the meantime.
 
Asha said:
Looking good Nige (y)



How did you soup ´em….. steerman or taco?
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Thanks Asha. I used the Stearman tank. I practiced a few times beforehand, but it all went pretty smoothly, even within the confines of the changing bag. I now have an empty film holder so the next challenge will be loading some sheets of film into that.
 
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FishyFish said:
I have negs!

View attachment 377944
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Wow, that's excellent! And no obvious signs of light leak (from dealing with the darkslide), so you're way ahead of me, right off!
FishyFish said:
...I now have an empty film holder so the next challenge will be loading some sheets of film into that.
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Definitely worth practising with the exposed sheet!

I had trouble getting the sheet under the "notch" (I think it's called). My solution in the end was to move the dark slide down to the notch, before putting it into the dark bag. That way the notch was easy to find, on both sides. But I suspect your manipulative capability is way better than mine, so this might not be necessary.
 
On darkslide loading problems...

It is possible to load two sheets ON THE SAME side and

You can slide the dark slide home even if you've missed the groove for the film on one side: resulting in either the film falling into the camera when the darkslide is removed to make the exposure, or finding that the dark slide won't return after making the exposure.

Personal experience...

I always make sure that the darkslide is partially inserted in the light to make sure that the correct side is facing out, and I have to admit that when using a changing bag, I always have a fogged sheet of film beside it so that I can confirm where I want the notch(es) to go. I position film notches to the bottom, as it makes it easy to run a finger along and confirm that there is film there as the notches are easy to detect in the dark.
 
StephenM said:
On darkslide loading problems...

It is possible to load two sheets ON THE SAME side and

You can slide the dark slide home even if you've missed the groove for the film on one side: resulting in either the film falling into the camera when the darkslide is removed to make the exposure, or finding that the dark slide won't return after making the exposure.

Personal experience...

I always make sure that the darkslide is partially inserted in the light to make sure that the correct side is facing out, and I have to admit that when using a changing bag, I always have a fogged sheet of film beside it so that I can confirm where I want the notch(es) to go. I position film notches to the bottom, as it makes it easy to run a finger along and confirm that there is film there as the notches are easy to detect in the dark.
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Thanks Stephen.

I found this useful webpage which gives a nice and easy guide on how to load film.

How to load 4x5 sheet film holders (Stuff)

Loading 4x5 sheet film holders is not difficult except that you have to do it in the dark. This post shows and tells how to do it so you will not make a mistake. 4x5 Film comes in a nested
zo-d.com

I like the tip on there about bending the film to check that it's correctly inserted into the notches.

I've also watched a few Youtube videos (including this one from Todd Korol - I think the main thing to take from this one is the recomendation that I stick to a set process, arranging the film, holders, etc. in the same way every time I load them).
 
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