Leica M10 D - The digital 'film' camera?

Fraser Euan White

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Upset a few tonight (as usual apparently) on the digital side of the forum by defending the new Leica M10D!

The Sony 'mafioso' were calling it 'dumb' generally slating Leica etc where as I defended it stating I would actually love a film camera with a simple digital sensor. It all got heated and I was a 'dumb ass' for thinking that a niche camera from a niche manufacturer was lovely and may help improve my photography because I enjoy the experience of taking the picture as well.

They are so sensitive to anyone who may 'think outside the box' :-(

.........anyway - back to the safety of the F & C section where people have a sense of humour (I hope).
 

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Like a lot of others in hère, i rarely venture "over there' for thé reasons you have experienced.

Besides i can take the p##s out of you lot in f&c and (usually) get away with it :D
 

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Call me humourless if you like but I'm not a fan of criticising sections of the forum seperate from the area you wish to criticise.

Sorry
 
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I never knew that we have to take sides to insult each other.
Or posess a particular brand of stupidity to qualify for one side or the other.

Photograpy is best enjoyed when it is not tribal.
 
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wow.....................just before this goes the wrong way as well - it was more about the discussion on the new Leica M10 D - which I personally think is a lovely niche camera that will appeal to several film photographers?
 
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wow.....................just before this goes the wrong way as well - it was more about the discussion on the new Leica M10 D - which I personally think is a lovely niche camera that will appeal to several film photographers?
The only thing I’d say about the M10D is that it’s no more a film camera than any other digital Leica? In particular, they’ve integrated a popout thumb rest and designed it to look like oldy-worldy wind lever to attract people who will pay £8k for a body that looks like a film camera. Personally, if you want the feeling of shooting film, just shoot film.
 
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Not many of us have aspirations to own a Leica M10D. As nice as it is, it is not the best way to spend on a budget.
But if money is no object , why not? it would certainly give many people a lot of pleasure to own one.
 

simon ess

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Sorry, but why the f*** are we discussing a digital camera on a thread with a divisive, elitist title?
 
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Sorry, but why the f*** are we discussing a digital camera on a thread with a divisive, elitist title?
Sorry you find it so upsetting Simon but I considered this area was called Talk film & Conventional?

The Leica M10 D is very close to a conventional camera - if discussing it here is wrong then I can only apologise.

Quite often the 'Headlines' do not relate to the content but are there to grab attention; but the first line of my post states I was discussing the Leica.

Edit : (I have changed the thread title to avoid upsetting people here)
 
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simon ess

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I can't say if it's wrong or not.

I can say I find the thread title distasteful and I can say that you have come up with an interesting interpretation of the word conventional.

I can also say I'm not used to discussing digital equipment here.
 

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I can also say I'm not used to discussing digital equipment here.
Well what about....the digi guys often say their digi lenses are superior to lenses made for film, has anyone use their digi lenses on a film camera and have been impressed or whatever.
 
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The only thing I’d say about the M10D is that it’s no more a film camera than any other digital Leica? In particular, they’ve integrated a popout thumb rest and designed it to look like oldy-worldy wind lever to attract people who will pay £8k for a body that looks like a film camera. Personally, if you want the feeling of shooting film, just shoot film.
Sometimes I want the 'feeling' of shooting a film camera but would like some of the convenience of shooting a digital image; I believe the Leica gives this?
 
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Sometimes I want the 'feeling' of shooting a film camera but would like some of the convenience of shooting a digital image; I believe the Leica gives this?
I kind of get the idea but you’ve now posted about a digital Leica in both a Sony-specific thread and the Film section yet you haven’t posted at all in the dedicated Leica digital thread which seems like an odd choice? I can see that other Leica owners have already posted about it though and roundly criticised it.

Apart from the fact it has no screen to review your images, or set any actual settings without having to use a connected smartphone, I’m not sure how it gives you the film experience? Essentially, it’s a digital camera that looks like a film Leica but has none of the inherent benefits of a digital camera, like being able to swap and change ISO without having a separate digital device connected. As a result, it looks to be form over function and removes all convenience of shooting digital, apart from not having to develop the roll of film.
 
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Well what about....the digi guys often say their digi lenses are superior to lenses made for film, has anyone use their digi lenses on a film camera and have been impressed or whatever.
Digital lenses have to be superior. But they would make little difference on film. Very few films can resolve fine enough detail to show the difference. Even Pan F.
However I recenty used an ancient screw thead macro pentax lens on a Fuji XE 2 and the results were just fine.. the lens was older than most writers on this forum.
 
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Well what about....the digi guys often say their digi lenses are superior to lenses made for film, has anyone use their digi lenses on a film camera and have been impressed or whatever.
I've used my digi Canon L-series lenses on my Canon EOS film SLRs, and a couple of my film-era Canon EF IS lenses on my Canon 6D, and to be honest, I've not noticed a huge difference in either direction. There's a bit more contrast and colour definition when using my 24-105 L as opposed to the 28-135 IS non L from around 20 years ago, but it's not a difference you'd point to and laugh at. However, the build-quality difference is poles apart, but it should be for the price of L series lenses!

The old 28-135 lens has more barrel/pincushion at either extreme, but it's got an extra 26mm of zoom range (which is handy in a walkabout lens) to cope with, plus the distortion is quickly sorted in photoshop. I'm happy enough with the old 70-300 EF IS zoom I have too, I believe the new one (the standard non L version) is optically better (especially at the 300mm end, which has to be stopped down to f/8 or smaller on the old lens to get good-looking results) but, once again, not massively overall (but I believe it beats it when comparing AF speed as the new one is supposedly lightning fast), but it's noticeably bigger... which seems to be the trend these days.

So have I been impressed? Only by how well some of the old lenses can stand up to some of the new ones, particularly given the price difference in the used versus new market and a tweak or two in photoshop or lightroom.
 
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Serious question . Why not stick gaffer tape over your rear screen and save thousands ? Is that not just what the new Leica is ?
Hi Stuart - the first reviewer sort of states this but he can see why it isn't the same: (2min 50s to 4min). I think to just do that misses the whole point of the Leica M10 D.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-u3AoSV5e4


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWVonIhTYsQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HUHRjFuB-E

If I could afford it it would be the perfect digital camera for me giving a film like experience with digital images.
 
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Serious question . Why not stick gaffer tape over your rear screen and save thousands ? Is that not just what the new Leica is ?
You cynic, Stuart. Without that lever thing, where are you going to rest your thumb?
 
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Hi Stuart - the first reviewer sort of states this but he can see why it isn't the same: (2min 50s to 4min). I think to just do that misses the whole point of the Leica M10 D.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-u3AoSV5e4


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWVonIhTYsQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HUHRjFuB-E

If I could afford it it would be the perfect digital camera for me giving a film like experience with digital images.
I'm struggling to get it to be honest but I want to lol when you say film like experience do you simply mean having no screen ? Or is it more than that and if so what . I'm genuinely interested
 
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I'm struggling to get it to be honest but I want to lol when you say film like experience do you simply mean having no screen ? Or is it more than that and if so what . I'm genuinely interested
Hi Stuart - quite hard to explain really but I will try my best :)

(I actually typed a massive post but deleted it because it says just what the second video (Steve Huff) states!) Here is a link to his written review if you don't like you tube videos:

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2018/10/24/the-leica-m10-d-review-less-is-more-again/
 

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I'm struggling to get it to be honest but I want to lol when you say film like experience do you simply mean having no screen ? Or is it more than that and if so what . I'm genuinely interested
Perhaps you've never used film kit?
The film 'experience' has nothing to do about not being able to 'chimp'......it's a completely different form of photography to digital altogether and the only way to understand that is to actually do it!;)
 
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I think Leica missed a trick in not connecting the the wind-on lever to the shutter. Surely that would have been worth a giggle?...missing the shot because you forgot to 'wind on' your digital shutter. They could have charged an extra £1k for that :LOL:

But seriously, if I had £8000 to spend on a camera........I'd be having a new floor fitted in the conservatory, new carpet in the guest bedroom and my leaking gutters replaced.
 
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BTW, I think this thread does belong in the F&C section because the M10D is trying to provide a 'fim shooting experience' in a digital package. That's actually something that many people in the digital areas of this site won't be able to relate to, having never used a film camera. So it sort of makes sense that's discussed here, as long as the thread is used to discuss that aspect of the camera, and not the tedium of its specification.
 
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The M10-D is £6.5k. I appreciate the screenless aspect, only a company such as Leica could come up with something as esoteric as that. I'd seriously consider it if I was rolling in it - why not? It's a nice change from the largely same-y camera industry of today.

Having said that, £6.5K goes a long way in other areas (photographically speaking). You could buy an M6 + 50mm Summicron (£2k) and spend the rest on film+development+scanning, or ~400hrs of darkroom hire. You could even build your own darkroom, have a Jobo dev setup, get a Leica V35/DeVere 504, install a Heiland LED head in it, get a nice print washing/drying setup. You could buy a Leica, an XPan and still have enough left over for a Mamiya 7II or a 5x4/8x10.

£6.5k could go towards funding a personal project that I'm working on, or let me spend the best part of a year developing a portfolio/shooting editorial to attract commercial clients.

I could travel for a bit on £6.5k...
 
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I really don't think this is in the spirit of this section at all. its not "F or C".
 
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Well as someone who is seriously thinking about shooting film again, I personally would like the opposite a film camera with a digital screen view of what you have taken. When I shot film I bracketed just about every shot, ok when film was cheap and we developed our own film but I could not do that now with no darkroom and no space to put one.
I understand the film experience but cannot understand why Leica choose to have a digital camera without a display, but then again I guess they know their market better than me!
 
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I think Leica missed a trick in not connecting the the wind-on lever to the shutter. Surely that would have been worth a giggle?...missing the shot because you forgot to 'wind on' your digital shutter. They could have charged an extra £1k for that :LOL:

But seriously, if I had £8000 to spend on a camera........I'd be having a new floor fitted in the conservatory, new carpet in the guest bedroom and my leaking gutters replaced.
I completely agree - it is the one downside of the camera and you are missing out on the famous 'butterly smooth' Leica advance lever - it would be lovely if it cocked a mechanical shutter!

It is extremely expensive but so is a rolex watch that only tells the time; probably not as well as a £10 digital watch from the petrol station.

I have a Jobo etc and love developing film at home but sometimes the convenience of a digital image is nice - especially if the shooting/anticipation part is as close to film as you can get?
 
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Well as someone who is seriously thinking about shooting film again, I personally would like the opposite a film camera with a digital screen view of what you have taken. When I shot film I bracketed just about every shot, ok when film was cheap and we developed our own film but I could not do that now with no darkroom and no space to put one.
I understand the film experience but cannot understand why Leica choose to have a digital camera without a display, but then again I guess they know their market better than me!
It's an anticipation thing! I love the journey home from taking pictures, developing the film and seeing if I managed to capture a good shot - something I don't get with digital as I have already seen the picture on the back of the camera. I don't know, must be me but the anticipation of not knowing whether you have managed to capture an image is like being a young child on Christmas eve; maybe I am just odd?
 
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Perhaps you've never used film kit?
The film 'experience' has nothing to do about not being able to 'chimp'......it's a completely different form of photography to digital altogether and the only way to understand that is to actually do it!;)
Plenty of film experience with my rz67 that I use every other day . Wouldn't dream of buying a digital camera with a solid back and fake film lever for a film experience though .
 
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It's an anticipation thing! I love the journey home from taking pictures, developing the film and seeing if I managed to capture a good shot - something I don't get with digital as I have already seen the picture on the back of the camera. I don't know, must be me but the anticipation of not knowing whether you have managed to capture an image is like being a young child on Christmas eve; maybe I am just odd?
No I totally get what your saying . So really it's a bit like film but without the developing .
 

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Well as someone who is seriously thinking about shooting film again, I personally would like the opposite a film camera with a digital screen view of what you have taken. !
Well using film is WYSIWYG erm rather what the camera sees is what you get and newbies have found out there is a difference :D it's just you have to wait for the result, and with the latitude of film 5 stops over and 2 or 3 under....any serious errors in exposure are usually covered to get at least some sort of a picture. But would agree using a digi is handy for tricky shots e.g. trying to shoot water dripping from a tap or taking shots of a person and find they have blinked just as you press the shutter :eek:
 
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Upset a few tonight (as usual apparently) on the digital side of the forum by defending the new Leica M10D!

The Sony 'mafioso' were calling it 'dumb' generally slating Leica etc where as I defended it stating I would actually love a film camera with a simple digital sensor. It all got heated and I was a 'dumb ass' for thinking that a niche camera from a niche manufacturer was lovely and may help improve my photography because I enjoy the experience of taking the picture as well.

They are so sensitive to anyone who may 'think outside the box' :-(

.........anyway - back to the safety of the F & C section where people have a sense of humour (I hope).
Deep sigh...

As I kicked all that off I feel the need to say that I do see the appeal but I think this camera is perhaps better suited to those who already maybe own one or more top end cameras, possibly Leicas, as IMHO it's just too impractical to be a "main" camera.

Just my VHO and I don't regard myself as being part of any Mafia.

And on balance I think I'd still prefer the new Zeiss :D
 
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I kind of get the idea but you’ve now posted about a digital Leica in both a Sony-specific thread and the Film section yet you haven’t posted at all in the dedicated Leica digital thread which seems like an odd choice? I can see that other Leica owners have already posted about it though and roundly criticised it.

Apart from the fact it has no screen to review your images, or set any actual settings without having to use a connected smartphone, I’m not sure how it gives you the film experience? Essentially, it’s a digital camera that looks like a film Leica but has none of the inherent benefits of a digital camera, like being able to swap and change ISO without having a separate digital device connected. As a result, it looks to be form over function and removes all convenience of shooting digital, apart from not having to develop the roll of film.
I said I liked it in the Leica thread.

You can change ISO on the camera.
 
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I said I liked it in the Leica thread.

You can change ISO on the camera.
Apologies for my broad suggestion of criticism. When I read the thread last night there didn’t appear to be a lot of love for it and it’s faux winder. I also forgot about the ISO dial on the top of the camera that’s designed to look like the rewind knob
 
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I'm struggling to get it to be honest but I want to lol when you say film like experience do you simply mean having no screen ? Or is it more than that and if so what . I'm genuinely interested
For me, it’s a couple of things. First, it’s the separation of the feelings from making the photograph and the feelings from reveiwing the photograph. I prefer them as separate experiences. Second, it’s trying to remain in the zone of making photographs. As soon as I move into reviewing photographs, I become a critic (which negatively affects making photos) and I’m potentially missing opportunities for further photos.

That’s part of the film experience for me. And I think the M10-D would be the same.
 
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For me, it’s a couple of things. First, it’s the separation of the feelings from making the photograph and the feelings from reveiwing the photograph. I prefer them as separate experiences. Second, it’s trying to remain in the zone of making photographs. As soon as I move into reviewing photographs, I become a critic (which negatively affects making photos) and I’m potentially missing opportunities for further photos.

That’s part of the film experience for me. And I think the M10-D would be the same.
Couldn’t you just use any digital camera and not look at your photos as you take them?
 
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