Leica M10 D - The digital 'film' camera?

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Robin
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Couldn’t you just use any digital camera and not look at your photos as you take them?
.... :LOL:

And you could even take your camera card to Boots for prints :D

I am 71yo and so my first camera was a plastic Box Brownie and I have also spent many hours in the red light district with stinky fluids aka a darkroom. I now shoot Canon EOS system and only RAW files. The RAW format offers the closest you can get to old school film processing.

For a long time digital images were simply not good enough to be comparable to film but this has stopped being the case for quite a lot of years. Yes, we can each have our personal preference but a preference is all it is (in my opinion).

I am neither for one or against the other - They are both an equally creative medium. A good friend of mine (in his very early 30s so not brought up on film) shoots with both film and digital cameras and often the same subject. I applaud the fact that he keeps an open mind and advise everyone else to also keep an open mind. Unfortunately I notice far too many on the TP forum discussions having somewhat closed and blinkered minds.

Leica have always enjoys an excellent reputation and regardless of their cost, should be considered and respected for their offered products.

KEEP AN OPEN MIND FOLKS!

 
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I don't shoot enough film to know if I'm missing something with the M10-D.
But for my money I'd buy a Fuji X100*.
Set viewfinder to optical with all digital overlays off and then place a small dab of superglue on the lever so it can't be changed.
Set camera to shoot raw only and then gloss paint over the screen.
After a days shooting, remove the sd card and post it 2nd class to my house.
Go home and await the results.
 
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.... :LOL:

And you could even take your camera card to Boots for prints :D

I am 71yo and so my first camera was a plastic Box Brownie and I have also spent many hours in the red light district with stinky fluids aka a darkroom. I now shoot Canon EOS system and only RAW files. The RAW format offers the closest you can get to old school film processing.

For a long time digital images were simply not good enough to be comparable to film but this has stopped being the case for quite a lot of years. Yes, we can each have our personal preference but a preference is all it is (in my opinion).

I am neither for one or against the other - They are both an equally creative medium. A good friend of mine (in his 30s) shoots with both film and digital cameras and often the same subject. I applaud the fact that he keeps an open mind and advise everyone else to also keep an open mind. Unfortunately I notice far too many on the TP forum discussions having somewhat closed and blinkered minds.

Leica have always enjoys an excellent reputation and regardless of their cost, should be considered and respected for their offered products.

KEEP AN OPEN MIND FOLKS!
I also shoot film and digital alongside each other and am currently building 150 Chroma's and shipping them worldwide (one is heading to Chile later today) so I have an open mind when it comes to each of us having different tastes/wishes.

My point with regards to the screen is that it's the photographer who chooses to chimp with digital so if that somehow gets in the way of the mood of photography, don't do it. We're all guilty of getting more and more lazy due to digital aids but I still struggle to accept the belief that paying more for Leica to remove features somehow makes someone a better, or more engaged, photographer. Whilst it's a lovely looking camera, it doesn't do anything different to other Leica M digital bodies and is another 'special edition' that they have got into the run of creating. I'm sure they will sell as many as they make and many will sadly adorn the shelves of rich collectors.
 
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As I probably use film cameras more than my digital SLR I'm not a chimping addict, but I have been known to occasionally look at the back of a 35mm SLR due to force of habit, more often looking for the menu settings rather than a freshly taken image. Mind you, people probably think I false-chimp more than I actually do, due to the function selection control buttons being on the film door of my Canon EOS 30, so glancing at those to press the right ones occasionally give the impression of looking for a screen. Well, that's my alibi and I'm sticking to it! :D
 
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I also shoot film and digital alongside each other and am currently building 150 Chroma's and shipping them worldwide (one is heading to Chile later today) so I have an open mind when it comes to each of us having different tastes/wishes.

My point with regards to the screen is that it's the photographer who chooses to chimp with digital so if that somehow gets in the way of the mood of photography, don't do it. We're all guilty of getting more and more lazy due to digital aids but I still struggle to accept the belief that paying more for Leica to remove features somehow makes someone a better, or more engaged, photographer. Whilst it's a lovely looking camera, it doesn't do anything different to other Leica M digital bodies and is another 'special edition' that they have got into the run of creating. I'm sure they will sell as many as they make and many will sadly adorn the shelves of rich collectors.
I remember shooting film and waiting for my prints to come back and then opening the packet to find they were all orange because I'd kept the film in a new set of drawers we'd bought and the film had been affected by fumes from the glue. I also got prints back that were affected by hairs and scratches and finger prints on the negatives, the processors, not mine. That sort of thing is behind me now and I make no apology for chimping to check that the picture I wanted is in the camera. Losing the lot because something has gone wrong or some unwanted setting has mistakenly been used is I suppose ok if it's just a self indulgent thing but if anyone else is involved who may be upset or it's a memorable moment that's now gone give me digital and a bit of chimping at the time every single time.
 
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We are all addicted to chimping. and do not have sufficient will power.

However you do not know full what you have got till you see them after processing on a decent monitor
.... Absolutely!

BUT....
Chimping does offer the opportunity to check your exposure and composition plus a few other aspects before you get back to base. Furthermore you have the opportunity to cull when chimping. On a D-SLR you might find it useful to check the histogram on the rear screen but on a mirrorless (Canon EOS R) you can select the option of displaying the histogram in the viewfinder.

As mirrorless digital cameras develop (technology never stands still and never did so in the days of film either) we are already seeing live exposure results in the electronic viewfinder (EVF) and EVFs are also getting far better.

[I shoot with Canon D-SLR 1DX-2 and Mirrorless EOS R and only with Canon lenses]
 

Mr Bump

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Big NO from me its a massive overpriced rich boys toy probably purchased by black polo neck wearers with very expensive wire frame glasses and who listen to Kraftwerk on loop.
 
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I tend to hold back on culling as some pictures that I initially think are heading for the bin grow on me over time and sometimes end up being favorites. What I do now is stick pictures I've just taken into a folder and leave them there for a week or so until I've had time to look at them and make sure that pictures I think should be deleted really should be.
 
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I tend to hold back on culling as some pictures that I initially think are heading for the bin grow on me over time and sometimes end up being favorites. What I do now is stick pictures I've just taken into a folder and leave them there for a week or so until I've had time to loom at them and make sure that pictures I think should be deleted really should be.
I always find photos never match the "reality" in my head so find what ever medium I shoot on I like to sit on the photos and give myself the distance between the taking and editing/curating.
 
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For me, it’s a couple of things. First, it’s the separation of the feelings from making the photograph and the feelings from reveiwing the photograph. I prefer them as separate experiences. Second, it’s trying to remain in the zone of making photographs. As soon as I move into reviewing photographs, I become a critic (which negatively affects making photos) and I’m potentially missing opportunities for further photos.

That’s part of the film experience for me. And I think the M10-D would be the same.
So it is simply having no screen then
 
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Really didn't want it to become a film vs digital discussion!
Both have their place imo and I also completely understand that this is a very niche product.
I enjoy film photography more than digital and using manual focus cameras without lots of focusing modes - if I missed focus it's my error not a setting/camera error.
The Leica M10 D offers the closest you can get to all the things I love about film (apart from the film processing stage) with the convenience of a digital file.

The links I posted explain my feelings exactly.

You can stick tape over screens etc but that misses the point for me.

Cost - I can't afford it but if I could I would order one today. We can look at most products we own and could say on the face of it the cheaper product does everything the more expensive one does but does it offer user satisfaction?

I think the marketing/product developers at Leica snuck into my head and designed the digital camera of my dreams - god how I love it; just misses the wind leaver cocking the shutter and the Leica red dot - let's hope version 2 brings this :)
 
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So it is simply having no screen then
I can’t speak for anyone else, but yes it’s an important part of the experience for me. I’d still shoot film in preference to an M10-D because I like the way film looks. And also because it extends the break between shooting and reviewing.

The more I think about this M10-D, the more I realise that the ability to look at the photos on a smartphone pretty soon after taking them is not desirable for me.
 
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Big NO from me its a massive overpriced rich boys toy probably purchased by black polo neck wearers with very expensive wire frame glasses and who listen to Kraftwerk on loop.
That's me then! Wish I could afford one, but then I suppose I could sell my Kraftwerk and Yello vinyl collection!;)
 
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Plenty of film experience with my rz67 that I use every other day . Wouldn't dream of buying a digital camera with a solid back and fake film lever for a film experience though .
Indeed. If I want a 'film experience' I shoot a film camera.

On that subject I find some peoples definition (especially Leica owners) of what a film experience is incredibly limiting. For these people it's stuff shot on manual exposure, manual focus camera only. Lot's of talk about 'meditative process' or 'slowing you down'.
I personally shoot with a F4 with matrix metering, program mode and auto focus. A 'film experience' is an incredibly broad church, and taking a screen off a camera whilst adding a fake advance lever for £700 extra isn't it.
The actual film experience is in the film itself.
 
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Big NO from me its a massive overpriced rich boys toy probably purchased by black polo neck wearers with very expensive wire frame glasses and who listen to Kraftwerk on loop.
.... It sounds like you are more influenced in your purchasing decisions by the stereotype you apply to a product's users rather than being influenced by the merits of the product itself. This smacks of inverted snobbery :D

Oh well, each to their own. :cool:
 
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.... It sounds like you are more influenced in your purchasing decisions by the stereotype you apply to a product's users rather than being influenced by the merits of the product itself. This smacks of inverted snobbery :D

Oh well, each to their own. :cool:
I read it as a bit of fun, no real nastiness or snobbery.
 
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Indeed. If I want a 'film experience' I shoot a film camera.

On that subject I find some peoples definition (especially Leica owners) of what a film experience is incredibly limiting. For these people it's stuff shot on manual exposure, manual focus camera only. Lot's of talk about 'meditative process' or 'slowing you down'.
I personally shoot with a F4 with matrix metering, program mode and auto focus. A 'film experience' is an incredibly broad church, and taking a screen off a camera whilst adding a fake advance lever for £700 extra isn't it.
The actual film experience is in the film itself.
I agree . I'm really trying to understand it but I'm struggling . From all replies it boils down to one and one thing only and that is, it's got no screen lol I just can't get my head round how that gives you a film experience especially when there is a fairly large wifi button on the back to connect it to you phone for God sake lol
 

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I also find the concept hard to understand. When I use a digital camera, I don't look at the screen on the back except in very unusual circumstances*, and in use the Sony a7r2 seems just like my OM cameras - I've even tried to use the wind on a few times!

For me, the "film experience" - if it exists at all - lies in using cameras that don't mandate a "camera to the eye" approach, an approach which I don't actually find helpful.

* Using the camera above my head (use a camera with a waist level finder in the film environment, so a swivel screen is a substitute) and checking if the person who appeared in the frame after the exposure was in it during exposure (with a waist level finder and/or camera on a tripod I can watch the subject and choose my moment).
 

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We are all addicted to chimping. and do not have sufficient will power.
However you do not know full what you have got till you see them after processing on a decent monitor
Very true. As above, we're all 'lazy' with regards to using digital aids but a roll of duct tape to cover the screen doesn't cost £6.5k ;)

Hmmm... I'm almost exclusively a d*g*t*l shooter these days but rarely do any (what I would call) chimping. Quite apart from anything else, I can't see the rear screen well enough when I'm wearing my contact lenses to make any judgement on IQ!
 
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I used to have a Canon 20d and based on what people are saying it was a "film like experience" as the screen was that bad you didn't have a baldy clue what you got until you got it on the PC but on the flip side when I use my rz67 with polorid back I'm technically chimping so am I taking away the "film like experience"?
 
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I used to have a Canon 20d and based on what people are saying it was a "film like experience" as the screen was that bad you didn't have a baldy clue what you got until you got it on the PC but on the flip side when I use my rz67 with polorid back I'm technically chimping so am I taking away the "film like experience"?
No, all cameras film or digital do a similar thing, the equipment is defined by the medium it uses, not by whether it has a screen or a windey handle.

I couldn't care less what this Leica thing does, its a digital camera, it shoots nothing but digital files and therefore this discussion does not belong in F&C.

If the op requires input from the film section on a digital thread, he should post the thing where it should be and link it from here.
 
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No, all cameras film or digital do a similar thing, the equipment is defined by the medium it uses, not by whether it has a screen or a windey handle.

I couldn't care less what this Leica thing does, its a digital camera, it shoots nothing but digital files and therefore this discussion does not belong in F&C.

If the op requires input from the film section on a digital thread, he should post the thing where it should be and link it from here.

............and where does it say it is a film only section! It is called Talk film & Conventional - if you don't like the thread then don't read it - it is quite simple.
 
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............and where does it say it is a film only section! It is called Talk film & Conventional - if you don't like the thread then don't read it - it is quite simple.
What is your definition of conventional?

I thought conventional referred to analogue processes, which would have very tenuous links with the Leica M10 D. :thinking:
 
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What is the film experience and why do I like it? This is what I have been pondering today.

I am no artist; my photography will never be that creative so why do I like it as a hobby? When I started in photography no autofocus existed and the most complex form of automation was an aperture priority mode with centre weighted metering. The first camera I owned that I really loved was a Nikon FE2; it felt great in the hand and gave real pleasure to use. The images from it were also great and the camera was simple to use with no menus for metering, focus, white balance. The camera 'never got in the way'.

You didn't know if you had captured a great image until you got the results but you used skill and judgement with bracketed exposures - if you captured a great image you were well chuffed that you had got it right.

Then the digital age fell upon us and the next Camera i purchased was a pro Spec Nikon; great camera with blindingly quick autofocus, different metering modes and enough menu options to cook your Sunday roast but the joy in photography left me, at the time I put it down to the fact I had just lost interest.

Photography had a break for ten years but a friend showed interest and I again purchased another great Camera. I loved photography again but the interest lasted all of 3-4 months :-( As the interest tailed off I purchased the film camera of my dreams from over 30 years ago - a Nikon F3. God I love this camera and Photography! As the interest grew I again started developing my own film and all the excitement I had experienced with photography as a teenager returned.

Why was this?

No, it isn't just shooting with film that I love - My photography (end result) hasn't improved in the slightest but I have realised that what I get from photography isn't just the end result it is probably the actual process of using a simple camera that can, on occasions deliver outstanding results.

I went to Blackpool with the friend I had introduced into photography, walked round all day enjoying the day out and using my F3; it was a great day but when i came home and rewound the film I discovered I hadn't loaded the film correctly! It hardly spoilt the day at all; the pleasure was in the equipment I was using - something very simple with little automation but a superbly engineered camera from over 30 years ago that just 'feels right'.

So, the Leica, might be wrong to say it offers close to the 'film experience' but it offers the conventional no bells and whistles experience in a beautifully crafted camera. I don't want video or loads of menu options - yes, I know you can ignore/not use them but then 'the tool' is wrong for me.
 
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Andysnap

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umm.....its the title, it doesn't say F&C&anyold5h1t3youfancy



I think your combative keyboard talents would be more useful elsewhere.
Rude and pointless. If you haven't anything helpful to say then say nothing.
 

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This thread has lost me as is it about explaining to digi guys about "the film experience" otherwise it's preaching to the converted...as here we all know why we use film. :rolleyes:
 
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This thread has lost me as is it about explaining to digi guys about "the film experience" otherwise it's preaching to the converted...as here we all know why we use film. :rolleyes:
..........but, as I explained in my post earlier I didn't realise why I used film; after analysing it I use film because the only cameras I enjoy using were made when film was the only recording medium.

Anything later than an F3 (F4-F6) would hold absolutely no interest for me - to much like using a digital camera with far to many functions/options. I'm not artistic enough to say I love film because of the way it renders etc, I love film because the cameras that shot with it can be very simplistic yet give real pleasure in use.
 

excalibur2

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..........but, as I explained in my post earlier I didn't realise why I used film; after analysing it I use film because the only cameras I enjoy using were made when film was the only recording medium.

Anything later than an F3 (F4-F6) would hold absolutely no interest for me - to much like using a digital camera with far to many functions/options. I'm not artistic enough to say I love film because of the way it renders etc, I love film because the cameras that shot with it can be very simplistic yet give real pleasure in use.
Well I suppose we all have different reasons, but for me 40 years using a basic manual 35mm camera I appreciate\enjoy what a modern film camera can do and my Pentax S3, Minolta Srt and Praktica T5b? are not used much.
But strange though as I don't mind using the manual RB67.........
 
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