Lighting of cars on location

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Hi,

I currently use one SB-900 on location and as all my shots (which use lighting) at the moment are composites I only need one flash. Problem is that the SB-900 doesn't really have a good enough spread or enough power.

I'm not made of money, but want to do things properly as I do make a living from photography.

As an example, both these shots were taken using my SB-900. Light colour = absolutely fine with them.
GFW_28651.jpg


Well as on this (very strange) paint finish I just didn't have enough flash power
GFW_5582.jpg


So what should I be looking at? Battery pack, flash head and a trigger? If so, do you have any recommendations of ones which will always work (I don't want to have the triggers not firing and that kind of stuff). I'm thinking budget of about £500-600, but know I might need to stretch it!

Thanks very much for any help!
George
 
Interesting dilemma as a battery pack and studio light will give you more light but will cost and not be as portable. Is portability an issue (do you still have the mini as transport?) . How short of light do you think you are? Would a second flashgun doubled up with yours add enough. Would cheap flashguns with manual settings wirelessly triggered be ok? You can get those two or three head mounts to add multiple flash inside a soft box etc.

I know the big boys have battery packed lights, or the hay market lads have huge 4 huge Metz flashguns with battery packs. I haven't that budget but I'm thinking of getting the godox power packs for faster flash recharge.
 
Second shot is interesting. How would you consider lighting that differently? Bit hard to put lighting on the rig, or put lighting on the roadside and clone it out later? Trigger it as you go past? If you're going slow then it should be ok to time when and where you want the light.

Hum, or have someone walking next to the car holding the light setup?
 
In the bottom pic is the car actually moving or is it PP?

If I had just the one flash, id tripod the camera, shoot the bg, add the car, shoot the car with varying pops with the flash at different positions and composite the lot back together adding the motion in PP?
 
how many lights do you want for the £600?

Just one light. I always do multiple exposures and composite the lighting.

Interesting dilemma as a battery pack and studio light will give you more light but will cost and not be as portable. Is portability an issue (do you still have the mini as transport?) . How short of light do you think you are? Would a second flashgun doubled up with yours add enough. Would cheap flashguns with manual settings wirelessly triggered be ok? You can get those two or three head mounts to add multiple flash inside a soft box etc.

I know the big boys have battery packed lights, or the hay market lads have huge 4 huge Metz flashguns with battery packs. I haven't that budget but I'm thinking of getting the godox power packs for faster flash recharge.

I'll keep the SB-900 & SB-600 that I've got already.
The Mini can fit loads more in it, so size of stuff isn't an issue.
tbh it's hard to say how short of light I am, I think that the lack of light spread from speedlights is an issue though

Second shot is interesting. How would you consider lighting that differently? Bit hard to put lighting on the rig, or put lighting on the roadside and clone it out later? Trigger it as you go past? If you're going slow then it should be ok to time when and where you want the light.

Hum, or have someone walking next to the car holding the light setup?

That shot is a composite. So 3 shots lighting the car when stationary, then one moving without flash. I'd add more light if possible to bring out the carbon fibre and I'd also stick more light on the roof.

In the bottom pic is the car actually moving or is it PP?

If I had just the one flash, id tripod the camera, shoot the bg, add the car, shoot the car with varying pops with the flash at different positions and composite the lot back together adding the motion in PP?

It's a rig shot :)

I know how to do all the techniques, just not sure about what kit would be good.

Would this work do you think?
http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/eng/product/calumet_genesis_300b_flash_head/cf0507
 
This is outta my league.

Id go Dave Black style with flashes on a FourSquare?
 
] Would this work do you think? [URL="http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/eng/product/calumet_genesis_300b_flash_head/cf0507 said:
http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/eng/product/calumet_genesis_300b_flash_head/cf0507[/URL]

How much is the battery pack. That's usually the expensive bit. What about modifiers, would you want to use anything?
 
How about a set of Elinchrom Quadras? I realise they're a fair bit more than £600, but would strike me as a worthwhile investment for the level of shoots you're doing and they should still fit in the boot of your MINI...
 
That's probably a good shout. With George's skill and talent this is only going to grow so it'll be worth spending and getting the right kit first.
 
The only person I know who's really qualified to help with this subject is my mate Tim Wallace from www.ambientlife.co.uk

You could try emailing him but I know he's pretty busy.
Cheers,
Si
 
How much is the battery pack. That's usually the expensive bit. What about modifiers, would you want to use anything?

Battery pack is £150, spare batteries are £60. Pretty cheap tbh

wouldn't use modifiers to begin with, but potential to be able to in the future isn't a bad thing.

How about a set of Elinchrom Quadras? I realise they're a fair bit more than £600, but would strike me as a worthwhile investment for the level of shoots you're doing and they should still fit in the boot of your MINI...

They're out of budget at the moment unfortunately (need to keep some working capital to fund shoot expenses before I get reimbursed)

That's probably a good shout. With George's skill and talent this is only going to grow so it'll be worth spending and getting the right kit first.

Cheers mate, not always that simple though! (for a start, I don't have £1500 to spend!)

The only person I know who's really qualified to help with this subject is my mate Tim Wallace from www.ambientlife.co.uk

You could try emailing him but I know he's pretty busy.
Cheers,
Si

I'm good thanks.
 
They're out of budget at the moment unfortunately (need to keep some working capital to fund shoot expenses before I get reimbursed)

That seems a very odd approach, surely it's worth investing in the right kit for the job and let's face it, you don't strike me as someone who's living hand-to-mouth ;)
 
Fair enough :shrug:

I've got nothing against him personally, just head a few bad things so think it's best to avoid. Having said that, it could be a load of rubbish :shrug:

That seems a very odd approach, surely it's worth investing in the right kit for the job and let's face it, you don't strike me as someone who's living hand-to-mouth ;)

Times are hard, I've had a tough few months tbh. I don't want to give that impression and try to always look busy as that's the way I want to be seen :)
To be fair, I've actually been quite busy, just had a few cashflow issues.
 
George, drop me a line next time you've got a shoot. I'm in derby, so close to you, and got a profoto 7b... Might be able to give you a hand / help you see what you need.
 
Short answer, for good power at a good price, is Lencarta Safari Li-on.

Longer answer is get a back issue of Advanced Photographer magazine, Feb 2012, that included a review most of the current market leaders, including the Lencarta and Elinchrom Quadra. It's been discussed on here quite a bit if you search.

Longest answer is to pop up to the Focus show at the NEC, starts tomorrow 4th March, and see them all for yourself. They'll be showing a new version of the Quadra with lithium battery, but a lot more money than the Lencarta, and not as powerful.
 
Battery pack is £150, spare batteries are £60. Pretty cheap tbh
wouldn't use modifiers to begin with, but potential to be able to in the future isn't a bad thing.

Not a bad price at all. I had a quick look at the Safari stuff and the battery pack was £400, however that was 600w and would power two heads.

Tim Wallace, don't know him but I admire his work.

Focus at the NEC is a good shout and you'll get to chat to some of the makers/users. Some of the Lencarta lot would probably be making an appearance on this thread if they weren't involved.

Oh and size of a mini - I saw the traveller against a Range Rover Evogue - didn't look much difference in size! But I don't know know how easy it is to get big bags into the mini so something to be aware of. If it comes in a big bag it might make a difference.
I've access to a bowens three head setup, which just fits across the boot of my Primera (Goes in the tvr boot fine though). Bought another of the bags to put my portable lighting setup in (flashes, brollies, softboxes, triggers etc)

As with everything photographic, you could work your way up or perhaps buy right first time? Seeing as you're doing so well (photographicly), Bank of Mum and Dad if you're a little short? You seem to be well connected with supercars and owners - any sponsorship?

Good luck with what you've got coming up George.
 
Just one light. I always do multiple exposures and composite the lighting.....

It'd be interesting to know just how much light you're lacking..... do you keep a note of exposure data and lighting? There's no exif for those shots because they're comps but are you using the speed light at it's fullest potential (i.e. 1/1 all the time)? If you are then adding a modifier is only going to see you losing power but if not, doubling, trebling or quadrupling speedlights could be the answer to keep things very, very portable.

I suppose that if you go for a studio head, then working quickly is key and doing it by yourself (I take it there's no assistant?) the set-up need to be very portable and light. That calumet Genesis battery looks like it'll be very easy to carry and with a head, comes in well under budget, and leaves enough spare for some good modifiers. Don't know how it'd stand up out in the field though - Speedlights will be the safer bet in that respect IMO.
 
Can you hire the kit you really need? If you do a couple of shoots with hired stuff then you can see if it does what you want without spending a fortune...Once it has proved its worth you can buy it either all at once or in stages while hiring the rest.
 
George, drop me a line next time you've got a shoot. I'm in derby, so close to you, and got a profoto 7b... Might be able to give you a hand / help you see what you need.

I've got a shoot up near Long Eaton on the 17th of this month, would you be interested in coming along for that? Very kind of you to offer :)

Short answer, for good power at a good price, is Lencarta Safari Li-on.

Longer answer is get a back issue of Advanced Photographer magazine, Feb 2012, that included a review most of the current market leaders, including the Lencarta and Elinchrom Quadra. It's been discussed on here quite a bit if you search.

Longest answer is to pop up to the Focus show at the NEC, starts tomorrow 4th March, and see them all for yourself. They'll be showing a new version of the Quadra with lithium battery, but a lot more money than the Lencarta, and not as powerful.

Very very useful post, thank you!

Not a bad price at all. I had a quick look at the Safari stuff and the battery pack was £400, however that was 600w and would power two heads.

Tim Wallace, don't know him but I admire his work.

Focus at the NEC is a good shout and you'll get to chat to some of the makers/users. Some of the Lencarta lot would probably be making an appearance on this thread if they weren't involved.

Oh and size of a mini - I saw the traveller against a Range Rover Evogue - didn't look much difference in size! But I don't know know how easy it is to get big bags into the mini so something to be aware of. If it comes in a big bag it might make a difference.
I've access to a bowens three head setup, which just fits across the boot of my Primera (Goes in the tvr boot fine though). Bought another of the bags to put my portable lighting setup in (flashes, brollies, softboxes, triggers etc)

As with everything photographic, you could work your way up or perhaps buy right first time? Seeing as you're doing so well (photographicly), Bank of Mum and Dad if you're a little short? You seem to be well connected with supercars and owners - any sponsorship?

Good luck with what you've got coming up George.

The Safari stuff does look good. Certainly worth a good bit of research into.
I'm too busy at the moment to go to Focus unfortunately :(

With the Mini I currently don't even fold down the seats (unless I've got a passenger as rig gets put on the front pax seat).

I'm just doing my research at the moment. No point splashing out £2k if £1k will get the job done well.

I lost my pin code to Bank of Dad :LOL:
Hard enough persuading them I need to spend my own money, yet alone borrowing theirs to spend! I could easily borrow money from a connection, but don't believe in doing business that way. I never want to owe anything to anyone unless there is really no alternative.

Thanks for the kind words about my photography. Need to get it all sorted by the end of the month when I've got my biggest shoot yet :eek:


It'd be interesting to know just how much light you're lacking..... do you keep a note of exposure data and lighting? There's no exif for those shots because they're comps but are you using the speed light at it's fullest potential (i.e. 1/1 all the time)? If you are then adding a modifier is only going to see you losing power but if not, doubling, trebling or quadrupling speedlights could be the answer to keep things very, very portable.

I suppose that if you go for a studio head, then working quickly is key and doing it by yourself (I take it there's no assistant?) the set-up need to be very portable and light. That calumet Genesis battery looks like it'll be very easy to carry and with a head, comes in well under budget, and leaves enough spare for some good modifiers. Don't know how it'd stand up out in the field though - Speedlights will be the safer bet in that respect IMO.

I don't keep note of exposure data and lighting, but can remember with most stuff. It is difficult to say exactly how much I'm lacking, but as I've said, the problem isn't just power, it's the spread of light too. I always shoot bare flash at full power at the moment. Not great for batteries! I don't want to double up the flashes, portability isn't the biggest issue I don't think.

I always have an assistant if time is going to be tight or if it's a commercial shoot :)
I might pop up to the Calumet shop in London and ask to have a good look at the lights

Can you hire the kit you really need? If you do a couple of shoots with hired stuff then you can see if it does what you want without spending a fortune...Once it has proved its worth you can buy it either all at once or in stages while hiring the rest.

Would rather not hire tbh
 
....the problem isn't just power, it's the spread of light too. I always shoot bare flash at full power at the moment.....

Seems like you need to look at modifiers in conjunction with more power then to compensate for diffusion.

Shooting at full power on a speed light isn't the end of the world - you have ISO stops that can help eek out a bit more from the flash. But the downside is how far you push the ISO on a D700 and more importantly, what happens to the ambient.

I think the most important thing for you is finding the right modifiers to give you that spread. A bare flash head isn't than much bigger physically than a speedlight so you'll still have the issues of apparent light size to deal with but with a studio-type head at least you have the option of fitting larger soft boxes and being about pump the power through it. A speed light on a Bowens S fitting will work but you'll struggle making the most of a large soft box.

It'll be interesting to see what route you end up taking and which mods you settle on to give you the look you want :)
 
Another option is to buy a raft of old Nikon SB26s or similar - you could probably get 10 of those and wireless triggers for all for £600.

You'd end up drowning in a sea of AA batteries though :LOL:
 
Lencarta is the obvious answer if you want power. More bang for buck than anything else. It would give you the equivalent of about six big hot-shoe guns ganged together.

I have two Li-ons here at the moment, and an Elinchrom Quadra with A and S heads plus a few modifiers. You're welcome to give them a try if your travels take you near Peterborough, but they'll be returned to their owners pretty soon. I'll clean the car :) Got three Minis in the garage too!
 
Yup I couldn't afford a lot but a couple of cheap manual young you flashguns produce a lot of light for not much dosh. I just need something like a godox power pack for my 580's to give me longer life/ quicker recharge I've started using my Apollo umbrella soft box and shoot through brollies a lot. I've also played Heath Robinson shooting 4 flashguns spaced behind a roll of baking paper staked with bamboo canes. I used that to add fill light for a static car shoot at sunset
 
Can you hire the kit you really need? If you do a couple of shoots with hired stuff then you can see if it does what you want without spending a fortune...Once it has proved its worth you can buy it either all at once or in stages while hiring the rest.
chance would be a fine thing, now that Calumet's gone, there's basically nowhere to hire decent lighting from in the east midlands, gotta go to Brum :(

Working down in london on 17th I'm afraid :( drop me a line...
 
Seems like you need to look at modifiers in conjunction with more power then to compensate for diffusion.

Shooting at full power on a speed light isn't the end of the world - you have ISO stops that can help eek out a bit more from the flash. But the downside is how far you push the ISO on a D700 and more importantly, what happens to the ambient.

I think the most important thing for you is finding the right modifiers to give you that spread. A bare flash head isn't than much bigger physically than a speedlight so you'll still have the issues of apparent light size to deal with but with a studio-type head at least you have the option of fitting larger soft boxes and being about pump the power through it. A speed light on a Bowens S fitting will work but you'll struggle making the most of a large soft box.

It'll be interesting to see what route you end up taking and which mods you settle on to give you the look you want :)

The Safari kit looks ideal, just would like to see it up close before I buy. modifiers will come at a later date :)

Another option is to buy a raft of old Nikon SB26s or similar - you could probably get 10 of those and wireless triggers for all for £600.

You'd end up drowning in a sea of AA batteries though :LOL:

:LOL: Not sure that'd work for me!

Lencarta is the obvious answer if you want power. More bang for buck than anything else. It would give you the equivalent of about six big hot-shoe guns ganged together.

I have two Li-ons here at the moment, and an Elinchrom Quadra with A and S heads plus a few modifiers. You're welcome to give them a try if your travels take you near Peterborough, but they'll be returned to their owners pretty soon. I'll clean the car :) Got three Minis in the garage too!

Very useful, thank you.

I'm in Norwich in a few weeks, but will be too tight for time :(
Maybe another time! (although chances are I'll order soon)

chance would be a fine thing, now that Calumet's gone, there's basically nowhere to hire decent lighting from in the east midlands, gotta go to Brum :(

Working down in london on 17th I'm afraid :( drop me a line...

I'll give you a shout, although I think I'll be sorted fairly soon :)
 
I've got the 602's, 5 receivers and a couple of transmitters. You can use them with the right cable as shutter triggers as well, so I often use one to trigger the camera with another on the hotshoe to trigger the flashes. All manual though. There's no TTL.
Remember to take the battery out the TX - it flattens quickly otherwise. The RX's have on/off switches.
If I was starting again I'd get the RF 603's as they are one single body that's both TX and RX.

Edit: oh and great range on the 602's. Easily 60m plus.
 
Phottix Strato (or the Calumet clones) are good, as are the Phottix Atlas, which is a PW clone at about £80 per unit. Those are transceivers too, which is handy.

The PWII are about a tenner cheaper off Amazon BTW :)
 
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specialman said:
Phottix Strato (or the Calumet clones) are good, as are the Phottix Atlas, which is a PW clone at about £80 per unit. Those are transceivers too, which is handy.

The PWII are about a tenner cheaper off Amazon BTW :)

If theCalumet-branded Atlases we used in the studio at their Glasgow store are anything to go by then they're best avoided, even indoors at close range they misfired constantly
 
If theCalumet-branded Atlases we used in the studio at their Glasgow store are anything to go by then they're best avoided, even indoors at close range they misfired constantly

That's interesting. I can remember all sorts of people raving about them when they were launched, most people seeing pounds signs because of the the (then) saving over PWIIs. Glad I went with the Strato then.... (y)
 
If theCalumet-branded Atlases we used in the studio at their Glasgow store are anything to go by then they're best avoided, even indoors at close range they misfired constantly

This incident is the only negative thing I've heard about them, ever :LOL: Pretty terrible day for calumet all in really l
 
itsdavedotnet said:
This incident is the only negative thing I've heard about them, ever :LOL: Pretty terrible day for calumet all in really l

Yeah, I'm sure they've had better days :LOL:
 
I've got a couple of the Calumet clones and they're fine.

I thought the conclusion to that Glasgow event was some strange local RF interference issue?

Edit: sorry, they're not Calumets, but the Interfit clones. Sure they're 100% identical though?
 
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I've got a couple of the Calumet clones and they're fine.

I thought the conclusion to that Glasgow event was some strange local RF interference issue?

Edit: sorry, they're not Calumets, but the Interfit clones. Sure they're 100% identical though?

Yeah, the same products, different name on them. I've no idea what was causing the problems with Calumet's own triggers, but given that the lights were at most 6ft from the trigger and there's nothing remotely near that part of their building that could cause interference, I'd doubt that was the problem.

Even supposing it was some sort of external RF interference that would still suggest to me that they're nowhere near as reliable as the real PWs and now that there's only something like £20 in it (per unit) between the clones and the PWs, I doubt I'd risk it were I wanting a set for professional use.
 
Yungnuo RF-602's if you're on a budget - they work fine for me!

If its the lack of spread of light your worried as opposed to flash power would shooting the sb900 into a reflected brolly not sort that?

Quantuum still do a battery pack/studio head product relatively cheaply if they're still around? Remember reading some reviews on their product here on TP
 
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