Lighting of cars on location

kman said:
....If its the lack of spread of light your worried as opposed to flash power would shooting the sb900 into a reflected brolly not sort it?....
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That'll eat up some power but like you say, spread could be improved. I think the OP needs to be not only looking at more power but more importantly, how that power is spread evenly and effectively by a modifier. Like I said earlier, a bare flash with more power is just extra grunt and not more spread. He needs to know the effect he wants to achieve IMO....
 
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I used to use a couple of jinebe units with cheap eBay triggers. The system worked well and is still working 5 years later.

The lencarter stuff is basically the same but improved a few key areas. You might want to look at their battery operated lights.

You can always use the speed lights to trigger them.
 
GFWilliams said:
Very useful stuff, thanks guys!

Bought some triggers now, just waiting to pull the trigger on the Lenscarta stuff. I would like to see it in person though before I buy tbh.
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Had a quick peek at the safari Lion today and it seems comprehensively kitted out with functions and adjustability. They have a very good rep seemingly. :)
 
I was pretty impressed with the li-on at focus tbh. Obviously not seen the light from it, which I assume is average bowens etc level, so perfectly adequate for a million uses.

Certainly felt sturdier than the elinchrom quadra, not that that takes much doing, even though they are nice lights. No need for a 75 quid adapter to use real mods, either....
 
Bought the Lencarta Safari Li-Ion in the end.

Did a quick test shot to get used to it and understand what power works when before a big shoot last friday.
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So they are a bit of a ball ache to set up compared to my SB-900 as that was just 1 switch and it's on, but it's so worth it! being able to stand back with the flash and put it at a higher power means you can get a much better spread of light. The Batteries lasted the whole shoot without even blinking, but that was expected. I would have had to have changed the batteries in my SB-900 in that amount of time. Looking forward, I need a standard reflector as I don't feel the bulb is safe enough without something protecting it. Was kind of hoping it came with one, but at just £10 I'm not too fussed about getting it after. I am also thinking I'll get a strip softbox at some stage too and that's when it'll be a real test of power.

Bonus that the case (which I'm very impressed with) fits in the Mini too:
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(rig stuff goes on the front seat)

Overall, very impressed :D
 
GFWilliams said:
Bought the Lencarta Safari Li-Ion in the end.

Did a quick test shot to get used to it and understand what power works when before a big shoot last friday.

So they are a bit of a ball ache to set up compared to my SB-900 as that was just 1 switch and it's on, but it's so worth it! being able to stand back with the flash and put it at a higher power means you can get a much better spread of light. The Batteries lasted the whole shoot without even blinking, but that was expected. I would have had to have changed the batteries in my SB-900 in that amount of time. Looking forward, I need a standard reflector as I don't feel the bulb is safe enough without something protecting it. Was kind of hoping it came with one, but at just £10 I'm not too fussed about getting it after. I am also thinking I'll get a strip softbox at some stage too and that's when it'll be a real test of power.

Bonus that the case (which I'm very impressed with) fits in the Mini too:
(rig stuff goes on the front seat)

Overall, very impressed :D
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I'm glad you like it, comparing it's power and the quality of the light to that of a hotshoe flashgun is like comparing chalk and cheese:)
You do need a reflector though, not only for protection of the flash tube but also to harness all that power and send it in the right direction. They are no longer included because a lot of people either don't want the standard reflector (they buy beauty dishes, high intensity reflectors, softboxes etc) or already have one.

The offer with the free bag was supposed to have ended before now but everyone seems to love them so the free bag offer will run for a bit longer, while we have stocks of the bags.
 
So they are a bit of a ball ache to set up
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LOL.. you push a lead into the power pack and switch on... not too difficult ;)

You really need to get some reflectors otherwise you're losing most of the light in other directions.
 
Garry Edwards said:
I'm glad you like it, comparing it's power and the quality of the light to that of a hotshoe flashgun is like comparing chalk and cheese:)
You do need a reflector though, not only for protection of the flash tube but also to harness all that power and send it in the right direction. They are no longer included because a lot of people either don't want the standard reflector (they buy beauty dishes, high intensity reflectors, softboxes etc) or already have one.

The offer with the free bag was supposed to have ended before now but everyone seems to love them so the free bag offer will run for a bit longer, while we have stocks of the bags.
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At just £10 I'm not too fussed about it tbh. I'll get more accessories too as and when I want them :)

I love the bag, very happy it came with it as if it didn't it would probably be stuck in some random old bag until I could afford a proper case for it!

Jerm said:
LOL.. you push a lead into the power pack and switch on... not too difficult ;)

You really need to get some reflectors otherwise you're losing most of the light in other directions.
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Compared to the speedlights it i a bit of an effort, especially when I'm normally tight for time. In the grand scheme of things though it's still very simple.

Is there an easy way to spot which way the lead goes in in the dark? having the little numbers inside to line it up can be annoying... If not I think I'll tippex a line on there to make it easier to line up quickly.

Oh, and when you spend a whole day walking round a car factory it can get a bit heavy. That's what assistants are for though :D
Might get a roller for it for future use thinking about it
 
I'm liking that George. Very neat setup.

I've picked up a Godox power pack for my main flash at a very reasonable price, but that's the next step up.
 
Steve T said:


What is the difference in light quality Garry
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Hotshoe flashguns have highly efficient (mirror-like) reflectors to maximise effective output, this creates extremely harsh light.
Normal reflectors fitted to the Li-on (or to studio flash) have a much more gentle reflector, producing much less harsh light. Also, the reflectors have many times the area, making them softer.

The workaround, when using a hotshoe flash (or hotshoe flash type portable battery light such as a Quantum or Quantum clone) is to diffuse the light, which works. But it also dramatically reduces the amount of light reaching the subject, which isn't good when the power is low to start with.
 
Thanks for that Garry, I wish I had asked that question last week. after playing with my first couple of flashes I do find the light is very hard, stark and difficult to get looking natural.

I find that with continuous light you can build soft light levels but with these flashes I just got, its all about compensating for hard shadows. To be honest, I'm not sure I like these flash's that much so far.

I think I need to try out a smartflash, based on what you have just explained, that light quality difference maybe whats missing for me.

Sorry OP,waffling on your thread.
 
Steve T said:
Thanks for that Garry, I wish I had asked that question last week. after playing with my first couple of flashes I do find the light is very hard, stark and difficult to get looking natural.

I find that with continuous light you can build soft light levels but with these flashes I just got, its all about compensating for hard shadows. To be honest, I'm not sure I like these flash's that much so far.

I think I need to try out a smartflash, based on what you have just explained, that light quality difference maybe whats missing for me.

Sorry OP,waffling on your thread.
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All Garry is saying is that the larger the light source, the softer the shadows. And the Safari Li-on normally has a small dish reflector with a diffuser front that is larger than a bare hot-shoe gun.

If you fit a similar reflector or softbox/whatever to a hot shoe gun, and spread the light similarly, the 'quality' of the shadows and highlights will be the same, and any loss of light will also be the same.

Lencarta does not have magic photons.
 
So the actual light 'is' the same, just housed differently...:thinking:
 
Steve T said:
So the actual light 'is' the same, just housed differently...:thinking:
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Yes. Garry's initial post was a little economical.

Edit: the main upside in terms of light is the Safari's big power. You'd need about six top end hot-shoe guns to match it. And it recycles fast.
 
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HoppyUK said:
All Garry is saying is that the larger the light source, the softer the shadows. And the Safari Li-on normally has a small dish reflector with a diffuser front that is larger than a bare hot-shoe gun.

If you fit a similar reflector or softbox/whatever to a hot shoe gun, and spread the light similarly, the 'quality' of the shadows and highlights will be the same, and any loss of light will also be the same.

Lencarta does not have magic photons.
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Yes and no.
There's nothing magic about Lencarta, it's just that when there's enough power to go round a manufacturer can afford to fit a reflector that doesn't have a highly polished surface, and the reverse is also true - hotshoe flashguns do have highly polished surfaces, to make the guide number look impressive and to provide enough 'reach' for the flash.

And although it's true that fitting a larger reflector, a softbox or an umbrella to a hotshoe flashgun will produce a similar quality of light to that of a Lencarta Li-on (for example) and that the proportionate loss of light will also be the same, the fact is that if the light source doesn't have enough power to start with then spreading the light out over a wider area will reduce the effective power to the point where it isn't very effective - so that option doesn't really work well with a hotshoe flashgun in daylight.
And the Safari Li-on normally has a small dish reflector with a diffuser front that is larger than a bare hot-shoe gun.
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Lencarta is no longer supplying that wideangle reflector with the diffuser, most people are better off with the larger standard reflector, which increases the effective power by 80% without the diffuser at a distance of 2m, and by much more with the diffuser.
 
Thanks Richard, I wish i had listened to you earlier you know, I bought another couple of those Yongnou 560 11, flashes so I now have the TTL thing and three manual jobs and whilst its early days, and completely different to what I am used to, as a direct step up from my continuous setup, I bet I would have preferred the studio flash heads:). Having said that I am getting okay results and learning a lot.
 
Steve T said:
Thanks Richard, I wish i had listened to you earlier you know, I bought another couple of those Yongnou 560 11, flashes so I now have the TTL thing and three manual jobs and whilst its early days, and completely different to what I am used to, as a direct step up from my continuous setup, I bet I would have preferred the studio flash heads:). Having said that I am getting okay results and learning a lot.
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Haha! You seemed quite determined at the time ;)

The good thing is that I doubt you've wasted any money. Hot-shoe guns are very versatile and you will find all sorts of uses for them.

Also, they play perfectly well with studio heads - just sync them up together with a few cheap radio triggers. I often use a combination of the two types, when it suits, and when I don't need the benefit of the modelling light. They lack total power output of course, but often you don't need that (just push the ISO up a bit) and at lower settings they recycle very fast (y)
 
It'll be interesting to see how you work modifiers (like a strip box) into your shooting George and just what results you get, thanks to having oodles of power that won't get soaked up by diffusion. Is it just the one head you got?
 
specialman said:
It'll be interesting to see how you work modifiers (like a strip box) into your shooting George and just what results you get, thanks to having oodles of power that won't get soaked up by diffusion. Is it just the one head you got?
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You'll have to wait and see (because I can't afford a softbox until some invoices have been paid) :)

I got just one head as all my stuff is composite work
 
Garry Edwards said:
Yes and no.
There's nothing magic about Lencarta, it's just that when there's enough power to go round a manufacturer can afford to fit a reflector that doesn't have a highly polished surface, and the reverse is also true - hotshoe flashguns do have highly polished surfaces, to make the guide number look impressive and to provide enough 'reach' for the flash.

And although it's true that fitting a larger reflector, a softbox or an umbrella to a hotshoe flashgun will produce a similar quality of light to that of a Lencarta Li-on (for example) and that the proportionate loss of light will also be the same, the fact is that if the light source doesn't have enough power to start with then spreading the light out over a wider area will reduce the effective power to the point where it isn't very effective - so that option doesn't really work well with a hotshoe flashgun in daylight.
Lencarta is no longer supplying that wideangle reflector with the diffuser, most people are better off with the larger standard reflector, which increases the effective power by 80% without the diffuser at a distance of 2m, and by much more with the diffuser.
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I don't know how you shoot outside with portable flash (i know your an expert in a Studio) but i have no problems at all over powering the sun with a Hotshoe Flashgun or a "Quantum style Flash" when mounted in a 80x80 Softbox. Its all down to technique i believe ;)

Just done a Model shoot in the loverly Sun we have had Yesterday, and I wasn't even using the most powerful Canon Speedlight. If i had used the DL250 it would have been even easier with power to spare.
 
fototraining said:
I don't know how you shoot outside with portable flash (i know your an expert in a Studio) but i have no problems at all over powering the sun with a Hotshoe Flashgun or a "Quantum style Flash" when mounted in a 80x80 Softbox. Its all down to technique i believe ;)

Just done a Model shoot in the loverly Sun we have had Yesterday, and I wasn't even using the most powerful Canon Speedlight. If i had used the DL250 it would have been even easier with power to spare.
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Up to a point, lack of power can be offset by using harsh lighting at very close distances, i.e. by using the ISL to maximise the inadequate power.
But people who want controlled light (rather than just light) also need far more power than a hotshoe flash can produce.

There are some workarounds, for example a Hasselblad that can synch with flash at 1/800th second can minimise the effect of bright sunlight without affecting the contribution made by the flash, but not everyone has a Hassie. Those of us who have to restrict ourselves to 1/250th or thereabouts are forced to turn the flash power up and use a ND filter to reduce the effect of the ambient light - and if the flash won't turn up, we're limited to just producing fill light instead of to controlling the light.
 
To put some numbers on 'over powering the sun' we could start with the Sunny 16 Rule, which says that in bright noonday sun, your shutter speed will match the ISO at f/16. So assuming a max x-sync speed of 1/250sec, your best case scenario would be 1/250sec at f/16, ISO250 (or equivalent settings).

A top spec hot-shoe gun puts out the equivalent of around 100-150Ws, when compared against a typical studio head of known output - say 125Ws. That translates to around f/16 when used in an average double-diffuser softbox of 80-100cm at 1.0m (ISO250).

In other words, a big hot-shoe gun at full power, can just about match bright sun in a decent sized softbox, at 1m (at 1/250sec x-sync). But to over power the sun, you'll need at least one stop more than that, and you're already pretty close with the softbox at 1m, so you would need to switch to a more efficient light modifier with inevitably much harder light. Or wait until the sun goes down a bit - that makes life much easier.

What this adds up to, is that you need a lot of power to beat the sun reliably, in all conditions, and with the ability to use nice modifiers at practical distances. 400Ws is not a bad yardstick, but the more power the better really.

Other things can also be important outdoors, where subjects are more likely to be moving, such as short flash durations and fast recycle times.
 
As I've already told you, we will replace and fix it in our workshop
 
Fixed :D

Pretty easy to do really, not worth the hassle of sending it back when I need it pretty often (do have backup flashes, but would rather use the proper one!). All I had to do was unscrew 3 screws, lift the front off while making sure I don't touch the bulb or any connections, then screw the connector back into place. I might superglue it so it doesn't happen again...

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I'm glad you got it sorted.
specialman said:
Maybe it's been around that Renault for too long and just decided to go all French and fall apart.... ;)
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I think that's a bit unkind on the French, some of their stuff is worth buying.
I've bought two French guns that were perfectly OK, one had never been fired, it had just been dropped once, and the other was perfect except for the bit of white material left on the end of the barrel where the soldier had tied a white flag:LOL:
 
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