Low light indoor basketball photography

Messages
17
Name
Kevin
Edit My Images
Yes
Hi there I am new to the forum but not new to the wold of photography, however I am stepping into an area I am struggling to get a handle on what equipment to buy. I know these threads come up too often, but I am trying to get advice on equipment as of today and what is available.

I am only using a bridge camera (FZ1000) at present, although taking some great shots with it, but every month I am doing 1,000's of indoor and outdoor basketball photos for local amateur teams (non paying, I do it for love at the moment). As you would expect the outdoor shots are good, but poorly lit indoors the FZ1000 cannot cope, I seem to be shooting 6,400+ ISO just to get a 1/200 shutter speed. I need a faster shutter, aperture and a camera that performs better at higher ISO's , I have pushed the FZ1000 to its limits.

So I have searched far and wide, watched YouTube videos, but never entered the question into a forum, which direction should I go?

Budget I would say between 2,000€ and 3,000€ for a camera and a couple of lenses (or 1 do it all lens). Body wise I have narrowed down (but open to suggestions) the Canon 7D MKII, but also if pushed and sourcing a good price new or used I may be able to push to a Nikon D500.

That's the body, but as I have no lenses and need to purchase these, this is probably a bigger concern, I can and may get a better body in the future. So I want to put myself in the hands of the correct system lenses to start with.

My head is scrambled with lens choice, due to the need for an f2.8 minimum aperture costs are higher but both Sigma and Tamron (not looked at Tokina yet) offer some good options. As a first lens a 17-50mm f2.8 seems a reasonable choice, I shoot from the sideline or under the basket and with the crop factor (I think) this will be by main lens. Probably followed up later by a 70-200mm, but I don't shoot the full court length very much. Looking at current photos my main range seems to be 50-100mm (35mm equivalent) but I can move closer more often than I can move away. There is also the choice of the Sigma 50-150, maybe coupled with a 50mm or less prime of 1.8.

I would like to ask what your thoughts would be in the current market? I have no preferred brand although all the pro games seem to be shot with Canon and I am thinking that if I do upgrade is there a better option for me.

Look forward to your replies, as I am new here I can't see the classifieds, maybe there is some gear in there that would suit?

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
between 2,000€ and 3,000€ for a camera and a couple of lenses


Right there, Kevin, I think you're heading in the wrong direction! :confused:
Lenses are the best investments and bodies — nowadays — are
less so… because they change very rapidly and too often.

I would recommend you go for a good used D750 and a 14~24 ƒ 2,8
used as well… the lens will last for ever but not the body. :)
 
I would recommend you go for a good used D750 and a 14~24 ƒ 2,8
used as well… the lens will last for ever but not the body. :)

I hear you and tx for replying.

However as that is a full frame the lens isn't going to give enough reach, and is the body fast enough to shoot fast continuous (I'll check that out :)
 
as that is a full frame the lens isn't going to give enough reach,


Again… that false reach argument.
There is no reach benefit in DX format. The focal length
remains the same… only the AoV is narrower… but that is
— in itself — no benefit of any kind!
 
The focal length
remains the same… only the AoV is narrower… but that is
— in itself — no benefit of any kind!

Sorry if I have used the wrong terms, reach or AoV but I still understand that lens on a full frame is not going to get me close enough to the action?
 
but I still understand that lens on a full frame is not going to get me close enough to the action?


The idea that DX will get you closer to the action does
not hold the road! This is possibly a sales pitch but it is
completely non sensical.

If reach is needed, go for higher sencel count! :cool:
 
Still doesn't make sense to me, my understanding is that if I put your suggested lens on a FX 1.0x then it will be a 14-24 true 35mm equivalent, but on a DX 1.5x its going to behave as 21-36mm.

Either way if I need to cover 50-100mm it doesn't cut it.
 
good options. As a first lens a 17-50mm f2.8 seems a reasonable choice
^^^ I was referring to this only.

Now, if you need more zooming power in longer focal length,
there is a great choice of Nikkor IF lenses on the market.
 
The idea that DX will get you closer to the action does
not hold the road! This is possibly a sales pitch but it is
completely non sensical.

If reach is needed, go for higher sencel count! :cool:


It makes complete sense.

Put a 500mm lens on a 7DII with a 20Mpx pixel count and then on a 1Dx with 18Mpx, shooting from a fixed point with a fixed target and the difference is easy to see.

Yes it isn't truly digital zoom and the pay back is greater noise on the crop sensor but the factor still exists.

That's exactly why you need to know the results of putting each lens on each body so that you don't over- or under-lens yourself.
 



Kevin Airey It will come to you when you will realise
that you may have put money on a wrong argument.

I don't mean crop sensors are not to be avoided, by
any mean, but not purchased for THAT faulty reason.

The decision power is still in your hands as long as the
money is still in your pocket. Once over the counter…
 
??? What argument, last reply ain’t mine?


I know Kevin, I was addressing you, talking to you
in my very possible clumsy way in English. :cool:
 
My options are still open having not bought anything yet, it’s just my budget that is restrictive. :)
 


Search for video or else on "crop factor explained" and go from there! ;)
 
If you absolutely have to get a cropper, get the D500, it's probably the best on the market and ahead of the 7DII.

However, given that you are shooting indoors on poorly lit courts, a full frame camera would serve you much better as suggested.

I'd also go for a second hand body (almost all of mine have been). Probably a 5DIII or 1DIV in Canon speak or a D750 or D4 in Nikon.
 
I have aD7200 and have been using it for basketball - evening sports halls/schools so lighting as horrible as you can get. I usually get our team when I'm not playing or the other team we have so I'm generally set up under 1 basket - are you looking to get the whole court or happy with just the one side. I've used the main lenses of a 17-50 2.8, a little with the wide angle but don't want backs of heads so don't bother with the other end of the court. You could possibly look at a 2 body set up which may suit if you want both teams from the baseline with a prime or cheaper short zoom on the close stuff. If you're at half way then you might be better off going with a good level of lens with a body that will do for now but can be upgraded to something better but if it's a camera that has been made in the last year or two you're probably going to be pretty safe with ISO range inside.

You can have a look at what I'm getting on mine here - https://www.facebook.com/media/set/...73741843.1816595885227301&type=1&l=86d7e3817f
Older stuff on there is mostly taken with the D90 and it was pushed to its limit. If you're looking at the higher end of camera also consider the file size jump - since upgrading camera I very much feel the need to upgrade computer!
 
Full frame is the way to go for indoor poorly lit Basketball courts.
You can probably get a good low milage second hand Nikon d4/ds4,
and for a single lens get a 24-70 f2.8 (second hand) for that money.

A 70-200 is also a good option more flexibility (for basketball and other sports) but if you can position yourself near the hoop I prefer a 24-70.
 
You just want a Nikon D500 with a second hand 24-70 mm f2.8. That's a great low light crop sensor camera with excellent focus speed and acuracy witha 36- 105 f2.8 on a 20 mp sensor. at 10 frames a second. D500 is the way to go.
 
You are starting from scratch so get a shortlist of cameras from different manufacturers and go and try them out. what suits one person does not suit another. It is a personal choice. What I would say is don't settle for I will get used to it. All the camera mentioned here are good its what is best for you.
 
I have aD7200 and have been using it for basketball - evening sports halls/schools so lighting as horrible as you can get. I usually get our team when I'm not playing or the other team we have so I'm generally set up under 1 basket - are you looking to get the whole court or happy with just the one side. I've used the main lenses of a 17-50 2.8, a little with the wide angle but don't want backs of heads so don't bother with the other end of the court. You could possibly look at a 2 body set up which may suit if you want both teams from the baseline with a prime or cheaper short zoom on the close stuff. If you're at half way then you might be better off going with a good level of lens with a body that will do for now but can be upgraded to something better but if it's a camera that has been made in the last year or two you're probably going to be pretty safe with ISO range inside.

You can have a look at what I'm getting on mine here - https://www.facebook.com/media/set/...73741843.1816595885227301&type=1&l=86d7e3817f
Older stuff on there is mostly taken with the D90 and it was pushed to its limit. If you're looking at the higher end of camera also consider the file size jump - since upgrading camera I very much feel the need to upgrade computer!

Interesting to see you are shooting with a 7200, some cracking deals on that at the moment! I am shooting from the baseline 90% of the time anywhere from under the basket to the corners. I just move to the other end as and when required. A 70-200 on a crop would be a second lens later I think but probably required for more general stuff.

Main point to stress is this is not for profit stuff, I'm shooting my kids team and spending a fortune is not really what I want to do. I will investigate the used market but I just hate buying older stuff. Yes I know more fool me but its how I am, I hate peoples cast offs unless I know them! :) Whilst I did say 2-3k realistically to avoid a divorce I need to be at the lower end base don all the accessories you need, batteries etc....

A lot of the shots are on here, the FZ1000 copes with outdoors very nicely, indoors its terrible... https://kevinairey.com/cb-san-pedro/
 
You just want a Nikon D500 with a second hand 24-70 mm f2.8. That's a great low light crop sensor camera with excellent focus speed and acuracy witha 36- 105 f2.8 on a 20 mp sensor. at 10 frames a second. D500 is the way to go.

This was exactly the camera I was thinking before posting on here and asking for advice. Like anything you start with one budget and everything better is always a little bit more. At some point you have to make a decision based on need. :)
 
This was exactly the camera I was thinking before posting on here and asking for advice. Like anything you start with one budget and everything better is always a little bit more. At some point you have to make a decision based on need. :)
The point is the Nikon D500 is so good. I have two D5's aswell as my D500 and if I had to keep one camera it would be the D500. It took an age for Nikon to update the D300 but when they did they did it right.
 
The D500 is a brilliant body - we can all agree on that.

I'd still be tempted to go full frame - however these are expensive if you want a high fps rate and good AF.

Lens wise - 24-70 could be a little short when shooting basketball indoors if you want to get close to the action. I have had good results with the 80-200 (the newer version is 70-200) however, the 24-70 will be an excellent general lens to have for everything, including shooting something other than sport.

If I were to start again - It'd be either a D4S or 1DX and a 24-70 2.8 from either manufacture or 70-200 2.8, again from either manufacturer - either will be more than enough.
 
I agree with you but full frame is out of budget for me, a lot of the used full frame stuff I see on EBay is pretty well used and abused and you don't know what's going to turn up on your doorstep after still paying a lot of money. Looking at my EXIF 25-70 on a crop would fit in with 90% of my shots which are mostly all along the baseline, on a full frame it wouldn't work. Most of the pros I see at the local games have the 70-200 Canon, except for under the basket shots.

I can't see the used section on here due to not been a member long enough (good rule but sometimes a pain in the ass), anything in there of interest?
 
I agree with you but full frame is out of budget for me, a lot of the used full frame stuff I see on EBay is pretty well used and abused and you don't know what's going to turn up on your doorstep after still paying a lot of money. Looking at my EXIF 25-70 on a crop would fit in with 90% of my shots which are mostly all along the baseline, on a full frame it wouldn't work. Most of the pros I see at the local games have the 70-200 Canon, except for under the basket shots.

I can't see the used section on here due to not been a member long enough (good rule but sometimes a pain in the ass), anything in there of interest?


I understand where you are coming from...

One option you could go for, a used Canon 1.3x sensor body. I have a 1D Mkiii and it is sensational value for money, or go for a iv. Much more affordable than the D500.

Go for either Nikon or Canon, the D500 is spectacular and I loved using one. The 24-70 from either manufacture are excellent too. I have looked at the 17-55 for the Nikon but always come to the same conclusion, the range seems a little tight when you know the 24-70 is available.

You may be tempted by the 28-70 - I know I am - however, the af-s motors can give trouble and I have heard these are becoming difficult / impossible to repair at this stage in its life.
 
Just got to find one in good condition I guess, ones I have just seen on EBay seem very cheap for a lot of camera...

I guess I have the right machine here: https://biSPAM/2qp2KKJ
 
Just got to find one in good condition I guess, ones I have just seen on EBay seem very cheap for a lot of camera...

I guess I have the right machine here: https://biSPAM/2qp2KKJ

I picked mine up used from wex photographic and received 10% off in their sale.... It came to 270 GBP with a 12 month warranty, official canon battery and charger. At that price - no brainer.

The one you listed seems expensive for a mk iii - you can find a mark iv for that if you look carefully.

Check out mpb, wex and harrison cameras as a start here in the UK if that's acceptable for you.

Chris
 
Cheers will do, I don't have hangups about used gear if its in good condition...

What sort of things are you shooting with yours? I'll read and watch some reviews...

Thanks!
 
Cheers will do, I don't have hangups about used gear if its in good condition...

What sort of things are you shooting with yours? I'll read and watch some reviews...

Thanks!

Currently, during term time (I'm a student... again :D) I shoot a lot of sport with the 1D. During the summer, I'll try my hand at wildlife, but as it stands, I have around 2/3 fixtures a week to keep me busy.
 
Hi Kevin,

I really feel you need to go down the route of 'buy once and get it right' and in doing so you need to stop and prioritise before parting with your cash.

The main thing you say you're struggling with is the low light of an indoor hall, so this needs to be top of your list. On this point, full frame is best - no questions asked. Cameras like the D500 can do the job (and are far better than what you have now) but for the best you need to go with a fairly recent full frame camera. Your budget restricts you from the top of the range pro bodies, so for me the choice would be between the Nikon D750 and Canon 5d3 - both used and a quick look at mpb.com shows the better conditioned bodies around the £1200 mark.

Onto the lens, and you really want to be at no slower than f2.8. You say you like to shoot around the baseline, so something along the lines of a 24-70 or 28-70mm f2.8 is in order here. Again, just looking at MPB something around £600 will get the job done.

I would then consider a 70-200mm f2.8 from someone like Sigma. This should be available for around the £400 mark used.

This will give you pretty much everything you need for all the 'standard' shots without wanting to go all arty and ultra wide.

i only looked at MPB to get an idea on prices but I bet you could get a D750, Nikon 24-70 and Sigma 70-200 all for about £2000. Thats the route I'd go (and I'm a Canon user!)

I've had the 1d3 and whilst it is a good camera, you're penny pinching getting it for the uses you want it for - for ISO 6400 and above I really think you need to go newer.

Mike
 
Last edited:
Hi Kevin,

I really feel you need to go down the route of 'buy once and get it right' and in doing so you need to stop and prioritise before parting with your cash.

The main thing you say you're struggling with is the low light of an indoor hall, so this needs to be top of your list. On this point, full frame is best - no questions asked. Cameras like the D500 can do the job (and are far better than what you have now) but for the best you need to go with a fairly recent full frame camera. Your budget restricts you from the top of the range pro bodies, so for me the choice would be between the Nikon D750 and Canon 5d3 - both used and a quick look at mpb.com shows the better conditioned bodies around the £1200 mark.

Onto the lens, and you really want to be at no slower than f2.8. You say you like to shoot around the baseline, so something along the lines of a 24-70 or 28-70mm f2.8 is in order here. Again, just looking at MPB something around £600 will get the job done.

I would then consider a 70-200mm f2.8 from someone like Sigma. This should be available for around the £400 mark used.

This will give you pretty much everything you need for all the 'standard' shots without wanting to goo all arty and ultra wide.

i only looked at MPB to get an idea on prices but I bet you could get a D750, Nikon 24-70 and Sigma 70-200 all for about £2000. Thats the route I'd go (and I'm a Canon user!)

I've had the 1d3 and whilst it is a good camera, you're penny pinching getting it for the uses you want it for - for ISO 6400 and above I really think you need to go newer.

Mike
Agree with Mike for the indoor stuff.

I have seen some 1dx go for circa 1600 - that with a 24-70 or even a non-is 70-200 2.8 would be doable for around 2k.
 
Tx lots of things to think about here now the discussion has got going! :)

The only issue I see with Full Frame is looking at my data the lens that would be needed is a 70-200 and for that I really fancy a non IS Canon, some really good deals around for the f2.8 and its the most common lens I see at the local pro tournaments. I am not hung up on it of course and as I need to shoot at 1/320 plus, image stabilisation is probably not so important. I could couple this short term with a standard 50mm.

The Canon equivalent of the D750 seems to be the 6D MkII or the 5D MkIII, whats your thoughts?

Is it really worth buying a 10 year old 1D?

I can go out and spend 5,000 on kit, but it doesn't warrant it for my use, shooting my kid playing basketball, having said that I have had a few people compliment and ask about doing other games, so you never know where it might lead.

So I get ALL the arguments and suggestions above, just got to make my mind up.

Another thought and don't hang me, some of the used prices are the same as a new grey? I know all the arguments for and against but HDEW seem pretty good with UK support and when a warranty is done, its finished....

Thanks all!
 
I've got that exact lens arriving tomorrow :D

I use a Nikon 80-200 f2.8 on my Nikon set up that does than a reasonable job for what I need it to do.

Good glass will transfer between bodies, so definitely worth spending the money on the glass and look to upgrade the body at a later date.

As for the Nikon / Canon debate - for a budget, I recommend Canon at this price point. The 80-200 AFS lens from Nikon has questionable reliability and the 70-200 AFS lens is OK, but more expensive and again has a questionable service life. The Canon 70-200 2.8 is a current model so serviceability is better - which is a consideration for anyone on a budget as a 5/600 pound lens could turn to a paper weight if you're unlucky!

With that in mind - you really need to work out how often you are inside and what other styles / subjects you'll be shooting and what sacrifices you'll make in order to accommodate your equipment choice.

For example, for me, AF accuracy and speed are the most important factors for me and I love having an integrated vertical shutter release / grip for longer lenses. I went for the 1D Mkiii as most of my sport is outdoor and indoor, it does a very reasonable job.It was also the most affordable way to get fast AF and 10 FPS with a lithium battery. I intend to shoot with this Canon till either funds allow for an upgrade, or it becomes faulty.

The 1D bodies are big and heavy. The ergonomics are brilliant and I love mine, but it's a weapon to travel around with - so if you are considering taking the camera on non-specific photo trips, then it may not be ideal.

On the price side of things, yes some places sell used gear for the same price as gray new gear! - Madness. If you can get new for the same price as used, why wouldn't you? Any warranty you receive with either will be a third party so little in it at that point.
 
I would say 70 - 200 is good for shooting from the corners but 24 - 70 is my mostly used lens for basketball.
 
Hi Kevin,

I really feel you need to go down the route of 'buy once and get it right' and in doing so you need to stop and prioritise before parting with your cash.

The main thing you say you're struggling with is the low light of an indoor hall, so this needs to be top of your list. On this point, full frame is best - no questions asked. Cameras like the D500 can do the job (and are far better than what you have now) but for the best you need to go with a fairly recent full frame camera. Your budget restricts you from the top of the range pro bodies, so for me the choice would be between the Nikon D750 and Canon 5d3 - both used and a quick look at mpb.com shows the better conditioned bodies around the £1200 mark.

Onto the lens, and you really want to be at no slower than f2.8. You say you like to shoot around the baseline, so something along the lines of a 24-70 or 28-70mm f2.8 is in order here. Again, just looking at MPB something around £600 will get the job done.

I would then consider a 70-200mm f2.8 from someone like Sigma. This should be available for around the £400 mark used.

This will give you pretty much everything you need for all the 'standard' shots without wanting to go all arty and ultra wide.

i only looked at MPB to get an idea on prices but I bet you could get a D750, Nikon 24-70 and Sigma 70-200 all for about £2000. Thats the route I'd go (and I'm a Canon user!)

I've had the 1d3 and whilst it is a good camera, you're penny pinching getting it for the uses you want it for - for ISO 6400 and above I really think you need to go newer.

Mike

Some perfectly reasonable advice here but my only disagreement would be regarding the sigma 70-200 lens, it's a very good lens for the money but from personal experience i have found the autofocus to be pretty pedestrian by modern standards especially in low light (used with a d750). If you can find a used tamron 70-200 g2 then that would be a massive improvement but the warning here is that it is quite a bit dearer than the sigma although you would still be within your budget.
 
I would say 70 - 200 is good for shooting from the corners but 24 - 70 is my mostly used lens for basketball.

I spend 75% of the time on the corners, moving nearer or under the basket is dangerous with these 9 year olds flying all over the place! What body do you have your 24-70 on? Am I correct in saying that you can adjust the crop in camera on the D750 if 24-70 isn't getting me close enough I could use that when needed? Saves time cropping 300 images later. :)

I went for the 1D Mkiii

I don't know how you got yours for the price you did, they must have gone up in value! :)

I've got that exact lens arriving tomorrow :D

The Canon 70-200 f2.8 Standard non IS? Let me know how you get on?
 
Back
Top