Macro help!

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Name
Sam
Edit My Images
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Having just bought a tamron lens with macro, thought I would go out and about trying it out.

It seems that I am ok with taking macro's indoors:

orchid2.jpg


But when I go out and take macro images outdoors, I cant seem to get them sharp?:

Hatchetpond31011056.jpg


I do find that when I take macro's I become so focussed and this causes me to feel a little unstable (if you see what i mean). I try to get a good firm footing/support but even so i feel a bit wobbly.

Is a tripod the only way to get good macro images, or is it just a matter of practice?

Apologies for the stupidity of the post, but I really love taking macro images and seem to be wasting a lot of shots through blur!
 
Have you brought an actual Macro lens or a 300m with Macro?

If it is the latter then I would say you will need a tripod to get really focused shot.
 
Manual focus and good eyes (i.e. if your eyesight is even the slightest bit out you've had it).

Outdoors is tricky as things don't stay still (wind etc) so you need to fire quite a few shots.

Also, at f/2.8 the depth of field is tiny, you really need to be shooting at f/11 or higher and for that you often need artificial light.

edit: oh, also at those focal lengths you need to increase the shutter speed too.

edit 2: also, if it is a 70-300 'macro' then it isn't really a macro lens so don't expect to be able to focus too closely.
 
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With a large aperture of f/5.6 like you used, you will only get a thin slice in focus. The various elements of the subjects in both these images look like they have quite a lot of (front to back) distance between them. So, with only a thin slice in focus, most of the image is going to be out of focus.

People differ as to whether using a tripod is a good idea or not. As far as I can tell most people who take pictures mainly of insects tend not to use a tripod, and tend to use flash, which they often diffuse with a home-made diffuser. I suspect that people who concentrate more on flowers do more often use a tripod, and less often use flash, tending to set up the shot and then either wait for the camera to settle down and take the shot using a remote release, or use the self-timer to give the camera time to settle down.

Some people use an intermediate approach. For example, some people use flash but also use some sort of support, for example gripping a pole with one end on the ground, or using a monopod, or rocking the camera backwards and forwards using two legs of a tripod. Having some support for the camera, but the ability to move it as well, can make composing a shot much easier. It can also help with focusing if you use the method of having the camera focused on infinity and then rocking the camera backwards and forwards until you get the image focused exactly how you want it.

I use a (rather heavy and complicated) tripod most of the time whether or not I am using flash (I mostly use natural light). I prefer to use the remote release method, but if the subject is moving at all or if the shot is particularly difficult to line up, I keep my hands on the camera and fire off single shots or bursts when things line up.

You may need to try different focusing methods. A lot of people (probably most as far as I can tell) who do macros don't use auto-focus. They either use the "rocking" method I described above or keep the camera still and change the manual focus in the normal way. If you do use autofocus (and it does work for some people - I almost always use autofocus as it happens), you need to make sure you understand and control exactly what is being focused on. I don't use a dSLR with phase detect focusing like your camera, but as I understand it with cameras like yours some people use the central focus point to gain focus, lock focus and then move the camera to compose the shot how they want it. Others use the focus point nearest to the bit of the subject they want to focus on. However you do it, because you are only going to get a slice in focus it is very important to position that slice where it works best. Remember that what will be in focus (in the "DOF") is the things that are the same distance as what you focused on, and the things a bit nearer and a bit further away. So, for example, if you focus on the nearest part of the subject you will be "wasting" some of the DOF. Finding the right thing to focus on is a bit of an art, and improves with practice.
 
Outdoors is tricky as things don't stay still (wind etc) so you need to fire quite a few shots.

Absolutely. A lot of people (most? all?) who do macros have high failure rates and have to take lots of shots to have a good chance of getting a good one. So if you're finding it difficult don't let that get you down - it's just the way things are. As well as wind, the higher the magnification you use the more difficult it is to get the image focused well and focused on the right area.

Basically, macro takes practice, lots of it, and there will be loads of stuff to shovel into the rubbish bin on the way. And you never really "get there" - there is always something new to learn. It isn't half fun though. And addictive, be warned.
 
Manual focus and good eyes (i.e. if your eyesight is even the slightest bit out you've had it).

Outdoors is tricky as things don't stay still (wind etc) so you need to fire quite a few shots.

Also, at f/2.8 the depth of field is tiny, you really need to be shooting at f/11 or higher and for that you often need artificial light.

edit: oh, also at those focal lengths you need to increase the shutter speed too.

edit 2: also, if it is a 70-300 'macro' then it isn't really a macro lens so don't expect to be able to focus too closely.

This is really helpful - thank you.. it is a 70-300 'macro' which I find quite heavy and chunky, which doesnt help. Will have to get a designated macro methinks.
 
With a large aperture of f/5.6 like you used, you will only get a thin slice in focus. The various elements of the subjects in both these images look like they have quite a lot of (front to back) distance between them. So, with only a thin slice in focus, most of the image is going to be out of focus.

People differ as to whether using a tripod is a good idea or not. As far as I can tell most people who take pictures mainly of insects tend not to use a tripod, and tend to use flash, which they often diffuse with a home-made diffuser. I suspect that people who concentrate more on flowers do more often use a tripod, and less often use flash, tending to set up the shot and then either wait for the camera to settle down and take the shot using a remote release, or use the self-timer to give the camera time to settle down.

Some people use an intermediate approach. For example, some people use flash but also use some sort of support, for example gripping a pole with one end on the ground, or using a monopod, or rocking the camera backwards and forwards using two legs of a tripod. Having some support for the camera, but the ability to move it as well, can make composing a shot much easier. It can also help with focusing if you use the method of having the camera focused on infinity and then rocking the camera backwards and forwards until you get the image focused exactly how you want it.

You may need to try different focusing methods. A lot of people (probably most as far as I can tell) who do macros don't use auto-focus. They either use the "rocking" method I described above or keep the camera still and change the manual focus in the normal way. If you do use autofocus (and it does work for some people - I almost always use autofocus as it happens), you need to make sure you understand and control exactly what is being focused on. I don't use a dSLR with phase detect focusing like your camera, but as I understand it with cameras like yours some people use the central focus point to gain focus, lock focus and then move the camera to compose the shot how they want it. Others use the focus point nearest to the bit of the subject they want to focus on. However you do it, because you are only going to get a slice in focus it is very important to position that slice where it works best. Remember that what will be in focus (in the "DOF") is the things that are the same distance as what you focused on, and the things a bit nearer and a bit further away. So, for example, if you focus on the nearest part of the subject you will be "wasting" some of the DOF. Finding the right thing to focus on is a bit of an art, and improves with practice.

OMG - this is amazingly helpful! Thank you! I use manual focus, but I did find that I had to move backwards somewhat to get a clear image. I am going to use the lock focus feature (its a new camera to me and I havent fully explored yet!) and see what happens.

"Absolutely. A lot of people (most? all?) who do macros have high failure rates and have to take lots of shots to have a good chance of getting a good one. So if you're finding it difficult don't let that get you down - it's just the way things are. As well as wind, the higher the magnification you use the more difficult it is to get the image focused well and focused on the right area.

Basically, macro takes practice, lots of it, and there will be loads of stuff to shovel into the rubbish bin on the way. And you never really "get there" - there is always something new to learn. It isn't half fun though. And addictive, be warned."

Thanks also for this - I was beginning to feel a bit of an incompetent buffoon, but thsi is good to know. And yes......I am addicted to macro - its so much fun!! Why cant everything be macro??? LOL!

Thank you for your help - I think you're my new guru!! LOL!
 
Is there any merit in letting an i-TTL flash get on with the lighting?

By that I mean set the camera to f/22 and 1/500 (my camera's sync speed), and rely on the 'magicness' of the i-TTL system to expose the subject correctly, or nearly so.
I'm thinking the fast shutter/flash combination should reduce motion blur even on a sunny day, and the small aperture should give a decent DOF.
 
When I'm shooting macro (mostly insects) I use ISO 400, 1/125, f/18-f/22 and a ring flash in E-TTL mode (Canons version of i-TTL). 1/500 is overkill for most subjects.
 
I use manual focus, but I did find that I had to move backwards somewhat to get a clear image.

Ah, for each focal length of your lens there will be a minimum working distance between the end of the lens and the subject. Get closer than that and the camera can't focus properly. You do need to make sure you are further away from that.

For the avoidance of doubt (and my apologies if this is obvious and I'm just repeating myself) the "rocking backwards and forwards" method for focusing is something else again. Here is an experiment you might like to try.

Focus the camera on infinity and then don't touch the focus ring. (Actually I don't think it has to be infinity, and perhaps a bit less than infinity might actually be better, as some lenses may possibly focus out "beyond infinity" and never give you an image with best sharpness if you turn the focus ring all the way.)

Set the zoom to zoom quite a lot (all the way if you like). Then don't touch the zoom ring.

Set the aperture to something small (big f number) like f/16 or f/22. This will give you the most DOF you can get.

Point the camera towards something and move towards/away from it until the image comes into focus. Once you get the distance about right, as you move slightly towards and away from the subject you will be able to watch the image going in and out of focus.

If you can arrange it so you can make quite small changes in distance to the subject in a controlled fashion (e.g. on a tripod or supported in some other way, or if you have very steady hands), set the aperture to something large (small f number), like f/5.6 or f/4 or f/2.8 if you lens will go that far. This will give you small DOF and make it easier to see what happens. Set it up so the subject is in focus. Then as you move the camera very slightly backwards and forwards you may be able to see how the parts of the image that are in sharpest focus change as the camera moves.

Similar to this, take photos while you are doing this and then examine them to see how the areas of best focus change.

Another thing you might like to try, with the camera on a tripod or supported in some other way, is to set it up with maximum zoom (so you get maximum magnification), and properly focused on the subject. Then take a lot of shots without altering anything. Perhaps do this several times, refocusing the camera each time and perhaps changing the magnification a little too. You may be surprised at how much difference there can be between the images in a particular set done with identical settings, especially if you do this experiment out of doors with a flower or something on a leaf, even on an apparently very calm day.



Thank you for your help

You are very welcome, but ...

I think you're my new guru!! LOL!

LOL!! I really don't think so. We use different types of camera, so some of the techniques I use won't work for you (e.g. how I focus), and I'm not familiar with how best to use a dSLR, never having used one. I have never used a zoom macro like you use, and have never used a dedicated macro lens like I suspect you may be going to get before too long. I don't do much really close-up close-up stuff that most people seem to prefer, and I use some techniques that most people don't. So (I suggest) spread your net wide, and look and learn from the amazing macros and close-ups you can see here and elsewhere, and from the people who produce them. There are lots of ways of tackling macros, and each of us needs to find what works best for us. Look, listen, learn, and then copy, experiment, adjust to find what feels right for you. And practice. A lot.
 
I love you Nick!! LOL!!

Seriously, thanks so much. I have tried this today, and got some better results. Thank you also for explaining in english (not techy jargon!) in regard to the aperture size!
 
This is really helpful - thank you.. it is a 70-300 'macro' which I find quite heavy and chunky, which doesnt help. Will have to get a designated macro methinks.

You can convert your 70-300mm to a "VARIABLE MACRO" lens with extension tubes - I use them with my 70-300mm L IS USM lens with quite a bit of success:

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=344817

Those are all taken handheld with flash.

I use a set of Kenko DG AF tubes which retain all the auto functions of the camera, AF, exposure etc.

.
 
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