Massively improved EV range coming soon?

If it's real then that's great, but something doesn't add up - there is no reason conventional car manufacturers would want to prevent this technology from being adopted if it's a lot better than lithium cells, and no reason this should be banned from electric events unless there were some other fly in the ointment.
 
ancient_mariner said:
If it's real then that's great, but something doesn't add up - there is no reason conventional car manufacturers would want to prevent this technology from being adopted if it's a lot better than lithium cells, and no reason this should be banned from electric events unless there were some other fly in the ointment.
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Agree, if this technology(which is known) can be made to work in the way suggested, ie without the problems, then I can't see makers of electric cars blocking it. I'd expect they would be beating a path to this bloke's door.

Let's hope it is a goer.

Dave
 
I hope it's true but I'll file this under "I'll believe it when I see it."

I don't know what to make of Austin Electric as different companies are coming up when Googling. There's a vehicle manufacturer in Austin Texas, a new company registered in the UK last year and an existing company which appears to be some sort of electrical contracting business so I'm confused as to what company he's linked with.

So, I don't know what to make of this. I hope it's true but...

PS.
After Googling some more I still can't find Austin electric cars. I fear this is a crock of s**t but if it is why are people running with this story? Surely they've done some checks? I do hope I'm wrong.
 
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woof woof said:
I hope it's true but I'll file this under "I'll believe it when I see it."

I don't know what to make of Austin Electric as different companies are coming up when Googling. There's a vehicle manufacturer in Austin Texas, a new company registered in the UK last year and an existing company which appears to be some sort of electrical contracting business so I'm confused as to what company he's linked with.

So, I don't know what to make of this. I hope it's true but...

PS.
After Googling some more I still can't find Austin electric cars. I fear this is a crock of s**t but if it is why are people running with this story? Surely they've done some checks? I do hope I'm wrong.
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I found them straight away.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3ECZk_hI0_XNpIZVcy8QIi
 
Yes, that's the new company registered or rather incorporated last year that I mentioned.

Searching for Danny Corcoran isn't fruitful apart from different versions of this article and he isn't listed on that companies house entry.

I'm sceptical but I hope I'm wrong.

PS.
Actually I misread when that company was incorporated, 21st September this year.
Danny is named in the PDF.
 
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Were they?

That companies House entry says incorporated Sept this year but I don't know how that relates to registration or how relevant any of this is and Googling shows next to nothing about the company or Danny C.

As I said I hope I'm wrong and this is bouncing all over the net so someone somewhere must have done some checks and know what's going on but at the moment I can't find any evidence of a company in Essex on the verge of producing electric cars or vehicles.

Just sayin'.

Hope I'm wrong and all that but at the mo I remain to be convinced and remain rather puzzled.

I did however learn from all this that Dyson has dropped his plans to make electric cars.
 
woof woof said:
Were they?

That companies House entry says incorporated Sept this year but I don't know how that relates to registration or how relevant any of this is and Googling shows next to nothing about the company or Danny C.

As I said I hope I'm wrong and this is bouncing all over the net so someone somewhere must have done some checks and know what's going on but at the moment I can't find any evidence of a company in Essex on the verge of producing electric cars or vehicles.

Just sayin'.

Hope I'm wrong and all that but at the mo I remain to be convinced and remain rather puzzled.

I did however learn from all this that Dyson has dropped his plans to make electric cars.
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https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/09572167-austin-motor-company-ltd

From what I understood of the article I read, they won't be producing cars, they will be producing the batteries.

Other than Dyson, there has been several things happening lately in the EV world, but best not mentioned as it will only lead to another thread getting locked.
 
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woof woof said:
I hope it's true but I'll file this under "I'll believe it when I see it."
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I've seen so many "massively improved" this and that, I'll believe it when I see it in actual vehicles.

This is the problem with mass media, they tend to sensationalise anything they come across. Especially in tech, where the next thing is always better. The uninformed public will then wait for the next best thing, which will never come because it's an ever improving field.


EV battery range is more than adequate in today's EV's. People need to stop irrationally overestimate their needs and look at how they actually use their cars, how long do you actually drive in one leg of your journey. Now, it's only the charging infrastructure need to catch up.
 
nilagin said:
https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/09572167-austin-motor-company-ltd

From what I understood of the article I read, they won't be producing cars, they will be producing the batteries.

Other than Dyson, there has been several things happening lately in the EV world, but best not mentioned as it will only lead to another thread getting locked.
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But where's the website or anything substantial at all on this company or their activities, where is their factory / workshop, what are their capabilities and history... they seem to exist only in that they're registered and have a couple of named individuals. I just can't see anything but smoke and mirrors and a load of internet talk seemingly relating back to the same article with no substance behind it that I can find.

I hope I'm wrong and I'd love to see some evidence that this company exists beyond companies house type records and I'd love to see that it has some facilities and capabilities but Googling seems not to provide any tangible evidence.

PS.
They seem to be a car repair business. I can see the address but I can't see a phone number or any advertising for this business. I'm not filled with hope, but I do want to be :D
 
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Tringa said:
Agree, if this technology(which is known) can be made to work in the way suggested, ie without the problems, then I can't see makers of electric cars blocking it. I'd expect they would be beating a path to this bloke's door.

Let's hope it is a goer.

Dave
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If they've invested millions into lithium ion batteries I can understand them maybe being less positive about a different technology. (Excuse the pun :)).
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
If they've invested millions into lithium ion batteries I can understand them maybe being less positive about a different technology. (Excuse the pun :)).
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If the technology works as described then Thier investment is already lost, and they'll need to jump across.

Personally I'd love the story to be true, but it seems unlikely.
 
ancient_mariner said:
If the technology works as described then Thier investment is already lost, and they'll need to jump across.

Personally I'd love the story to be true, but it seems unlikely.
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Yup.

One puzzle is why this is bouncing all over the net when it seems hard to find any substance. Has no one done any checking?
 
wuyanxu said:
I've seen so many "massively improved" this and that, I'll believe it when I see it in actual vehicles.

This is the problem with mass media, they tend to sensationalise anything they come across. Especially in tech, where the next thing is always better. The uninformed public will then wait for the next best thing, which will never come because it's an ever improving field.


EV battery range is more than adequate in today's EV's. People need to stop irrationally overestimate their needs and look at how they actually use their cars, how long do you actually drive in one leg of your journey. Now, it's only the charging infrastructure need to catch up.
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The news item is also being carried by pro EV sites not just mass media.
Current EV batteries are overweight and expensive to produce.
If these new batteries prove to be real, it will reduce the weight of Ev's, be cheaper to produce, meaning the vehicles will be cheaper to buy. Plus if they can be manufactured using poor quality recycled aluminium, they will be more enviromentally friendly than mining for Cobalt for lithium batteries.
 
Yes but is there any substance to any of these reports?

At the mo I can't see any evidence that the Austin company exists in any sort of form able to manufacture anything.

That's a concern for me as is that all of the reports I've seen so far seem to use the same material and photographs.

I'm a big fan of manufacturing in the UK and I'd love this to be a real technology that can be a success and fingers crossed that something more substantial comes out in coming days and weeks and can go on to provide jobs and an industry in the UK. Trevor Baylis had an idea and built it in his workshop and I hope Trevor Jackson has done the same.

Time will tell.
 
wuyanxu said:
EV battery range is more than adequate in today's EV's. People need to stop irrationally overestimate their needs and look at how they actually use their cars, how long do you actually drive in one leg of your journey. Now, it's only the charging infrastructure need to catch up.
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I used to do 1500 miles a week and occasionally did crazy distances in one day, Bristol or London and back in a day springs to mind (I live in Cleveland) and that's something I did repeatedly. I'm retired now but I still do things like Manchester and back, Newcastle or Leeds and back etc and holiday in the UK etc and although these aren't things I do every month they're still things I do and raise the question of what would I do if the range of an EV wasn't enough. Filling a car up with petrol takes minutes but recharging a battery? To me it's not a practical solution as I'd have to hire a conventional car for the occasions when an EV just couldn't be relied upon. And I do have doubts about the real world green credentials of EV's and if indeed it is even possible to switch on a large scale and then there's end of life which I don't think anyone is really addressing.

I've said this before on this subject and I'll say it again. I used to work in the car supply chain and I can tell you that back then a lot of end of life stuff was fantasy... pure fantasy, and I'm convinced that it still is and unless we sort it out and ensure that it's real and really happens as it should and is not just a box ticking exercise I do worry about the real world impact of switching to EV technology.
 
I have only two words to contribute to this discussion: "cold fusion"

...because that worked out so well. :naughty:
 
I had a look on the Advanced Propulsion Centre's website (from which the article says a grant of £108,000 has been secured) and can't see any mention Austin Electric. Hope it is true but ......

Dave
 
woof woof said:
I used to do 1500 miles a week and occasionally did crazy distances in one day, Bristol or London and back in a day springs to mind (I live in Cleveland) and that's something I did repeatedly. I'm retired now but I still do things like Manchester and back, Newcastle or Leeds and back etc and holiday in the UK etc and although these aren't things I do every month they're still things I do and raise the question of what would I do if the range of an EV wasn't enough. Filling a car up with petrol takes minutes but recharging a battery?
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How far do you actually go on each leg? Do you actually do the whole journey without stopping?

Fastest stopping time at service, run to the toilet and back, is still going to be 5 minutes. Current EV's can recharge back to 70% in 15-20minutes, 80% in 30-40min. It's not too much a bourden to change from 10-15min leisurely mid-journey break.

That is, of course, assuming we have 120+ Kw chargers everywhere.......... This is why we need to improve infrastructure, the cars are more or less there.
 
wuyanxu said:
This is why we need to improve infrastructure, the cars are more or less there.
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Good idea. Can we assume that electric car VED will increase from the current £0 to (say) £2500 per year to cover the cost of these improvements which are obviously not relevant to other road users? :naughty:
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Good idea. Can we assume that electric car VED will increase from the current £0 to (say) £2500 per year to cover the cost of these improvements which are obviously not relevant to other road users? :naughty:
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While UK fossil fuel industry enjoy having biggest subsidy in EU?
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...sil-fuel-subsidies-in-the-eu-finds-commission
I don't think that comes from your petrol/diesel VED.

I've said this many times. Charging infrastructure investment needs to primarily come from car manufacturers. Ionity, Electric Highway (Nissan Renault), Tesla, VW at Tesco are all thanks to car manufacturer investments.

For any manufacturer who really want to sell their EV, they'll need to make sure the customers have a good experience using it.



But let's get back to the topic at hand. VED has nothing to do with this new type of batteries. I'll admit I had got carried away, charging infrastructure also have nothing to do with this new battery tech. Sorry.
 
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nilagin said:
I would say it comes out of that and the 57.5p tax revenue on every litre of petrol or diesel sold.
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Have you got any source on your "would say"?

All I've found is prediction showing healthy rising VED and fuel duty predictions from Office for Budget Responsibility, no mention of EV. Completely contradicts the gloomy warnings from the few people saying EV's will get taxed heavily.
https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/vehicle-excise-duty/
https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/fuel-duties/

I cannot find any source to say fossil fuel subsidy comes out of those two source of government income.

End of the day, the government can allocate tax money as they see which, they have zero obligation to restrict petrol/diesel tax to fossil fuel investments.
 
wuyanxu said:
Have you got any source on your "would say"?

All I've found is prediction showing healthy rising VED and fuel duty predictions from Office for Budget Responsibility, no mention of EV. Completely contradicts the gloomy warnings from the few people saying EV's will get taxed heavily.
https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/vehicle-excise-duty/
https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/fuel-duties/

I cannot find any source to say fossil fuel subsidy comes out of those two source of government income.

End of the day, the government can allocate tax money as they see which, they have zero obligation to restrict petrol/diesel tax to fossil fuel investments.
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The money has to come from somewhere. Just like the £3.5k subsidy on Ev's.
 
A significant part of the UK fossil fuel subsidies identified by the commission is the 5% rate of VAT on domestic gas and electricity, cut from the standard 20%. The UK government did not dispute the data but denied that it provided any subsidies for fossil fuels under its own definition and that of the International Energy Agency.
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It seems that taxing fossil fuel less than some other countries is considered to be subsidising. While this is apparently accurate against the correct technical definition, in practical terms the government is clearly NOT subsidising fuel. Obviously we can't know how the numbers are presented by the chancellor, but charging 15% less VAT will be a lot less proportionately than 57.5pplitre. This is important because it is also applied to heating fuel, for example, so it is better to collect duty through direct and specific taxes than blanket taxation.
 
Hydrogen is the way, if they can just stop using fossil fuels to make the stuff.
 
wuyanxu said:
How far do you actually go on each leg? Do you actually do the whole journey without stopping?

Fastest stopping time at service, run to the toilet and back, is still going to be 5 minutes. Current EV's can recharge back to 70% in 15-20minutes, 80% in 30-40min. It's not too much a bourden to change from 10-15min leisurely mid-journey break.

That is, of course, assuming we have 120+ Kw chargers everywhere.......... This is why we need to improve infrastructure, the cars are more or less there.
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I'll drive to Manchester and back without refueling.

If an EV can recharge in 40 minutes or so the next question that needs to be answered is how long is the queue? If we are going to change en masse I'd like to see how it all works and how all those cars that need a top up are going to park up and do it before I jump in.
 
tarric said:
Or could it be that due to its limitations electric is just not the answer.
http://www.circuitinsight.com/programs/54790.html
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:banghead::banghead::banghead:

woof woof said:
If an EV can recharge in 40 minutes or so the next question that needs to be answered is how long is the queue? If we are going to change en masse I'd like to see how it all works and how all those cars that need a top up are going to park up and do it before I jump in.
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Yep, we need a lot more rapid charging stations at every rapid charging location to prevent queuing. Current install of 1 or 2 at each location is nonsense.

Pull into middle of M4 service at Membury, you'll see 2 chargers for all other EV's, 8 Tesla 120kW chargers.
Pull into South Mimms service, you'll see 2 chargers for all other EV's, 12 Tesla 120kW chargers.
Biggest EV charging site that is compatible with all EV's is currently Milton Keynes Coachway, a dire location to spend time, but it has 9 50kW and 4 150kW chargers. A good start, but this is just a single location , whereas there's more other EV's than Tesla's.

Ionity, a multi-car-company funded network installing all across Europe. Now have 3 operational sites across UK, but only have 4 stalls at each location. You'd thought combining all those car manufacturer's EV's (BMW i3, Daimier EQC, Smarts, VAG e-Golf, e-Up, Taycan, e-Tron) there's more of those EV on UK road than Tesla's.
 
If Ev's are capable of a range far exceeding normal usage, there is less demand for public chargers.
 
woof woof said:
I used to do 1500 miles a week and occasionally did crazy distances in one day, Bristol or London and back in a day springs to mind (I live in Cleveland) and that's something I did repeatedly.
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Even though you did this repeatedly, you’re still a massive outlier statistically. The average uk commute is 16.7 miles daily, and it’s going down each year (it was nearly 19 back in 2008). For the vast majority of commuters, EV range covers them.

I don’t commute but occasionally do 300 miles in a day with work. EVs are still a little out of my range, but for all my mates, they’re already perfect.
 
decigallen said:
Even though you did this repeatedly, you’re still a massive outlier statistically. The average uk commute is 16.7 miles daily, and it’s going down each year (it was nearly 19 back in 2008). For the vast majority of commuters, EV range covers them.

I don’t commute but occasionally do 300 miles in a day with work. EVs are still a little out of my range, but for all my mates, they’re already perfect.
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You are ignoring the fact that Ev's are going to have to include commercial vehicles from vans to lorries.
 
nilagin said:
You are ignoring the fact that Ev's are going to have to include commercial vehicles from vans to lorries.
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I didn’t ignore it, I was addressing a particular point on commuting rather than haulage or mass transport.

That being said, EV buses and vans are being used. I’ve seen quite a few local businesses in my city use EV vans. Trucks won’t be far behind.
 
decigallen said:
That being said, EV buses and vans are being used. I’ve seen quite a few local businesses in my city use EV vans. Trucks won’t be far behind.
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But they are likely to be local use and low mileage.
As far as trucks are concerned, batteries will need to be light weight, otherwise you lose payload. Lose payload, you need more trucks.
 
I think long distance lorries are more ideal for hydrogen-battery hybrid than passenger vehicles:
- larger fuel cells can be more efficient than those size constrained ones used in passenger vehicles (passenger fuel cell vehicle: 40-50% efficient, submarine fuel cell: 85% efficient)
- you have those truck depo, where they can be charged and refuelled. Lorries don't really park on people's driveways, so EV's recharge at home benefit doesn't apply to lorries.

Busses, however, drive a set route (similar to most people's commute) and usually on slow 30mph roads in the middle of population centre. They are perfect target to become zero tailpipe emissions battery-electric vehicles.

Same with those last mile delivery vans, they drive in residential areas, usually short distance, constant stop and start. Perfect if they are made into quieter, zero tailpipe emission battery-electric vehicles.

City taxi is another good candidate. LEVC is a brilliant range extended EV.
 
nilagin said:
But they are likely to be local use and low mileage.
As far as trucks are concerned, batteries will need to be light weight, otherwise you lose payload. Lose payload, you need more trucks.
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Yeah, that's an issue I've seen mentioned a lot. Looking at the Tesla truck, the range will be fine for many long-haul jobs - up to 500 miles with 400mile recharge in 30mins. I've read a few pieces on the weight issues but most suggest they will be repaid in tax incentives, fuel savings and lower maintenance costs. The stumbling block will be initial price and the charging infrastructure - Tesla is good on infrastructure but the truck will be pricey.

And this is looking at it with today's tech. Adoption of EV cars and buses will quicken the development of tech, By 2030 or 2040 battery tech will easily surpass current ICE standards.
 
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