Disgusted with who ?
Personally I think Hamilton has been far from an ambassador for the sport with his antics and outbursts,
Ferrari are tied up in this too. Ban the four of them
Personally I think Hamilton has been far from an ambassador for the sport with his antics and outbursts
I can't see how they can be held accountable for what some of their employees have done and not Ferrari.
Personally I think Hamilton has been far from an ambassador for the sport with his antics and outbursts, !
Did you not read the report?McLaren have not been proved to have made any gain from the info.
I'm not in anyway saying that McLaren have been stitched up (some of their employees need sacking for gross misconduct) but the winners of the debacle are Ferrari & the FIA.
I think you need to expand on that statement. As far as I can see LH is a great ambassador for F1.
Alonso and De La Rosa on the other hand :thumbsdown:
Hmmm, that's quite a leap of logic I think.
Ferrari will "win" a tainted constructors championship that they were going to be second in anyway
*snip*.
I'm not pulling anyone up about that at all. Simply commenting that there is a lot of strange bias affecting how people see things.Come on Ratty - you pull up others for any seeming imprecision in response,
No. I missed two whole sentences which had a smilie amongst them, not just a smiley.yet to me you quote everything except the smiley I put, cutting that out of the middle of what you quoted!
That would indicate you liked Hiedfeld or liked the idea that he could win. It doesn't indicate that the whole post was a joke. When there are so many people in this thread who see the (Ferrari)Red mist one :smile: amongst all those words doesn't make it funnyMaybe Heidfeld for world champ?! Ban the four of them and let Heidfeld and Kubica fight it out!
Oh right.. OK.It was a joke.
Suppose it'd give them a chance of winning something.That's like Liverpool playing in the Conference leagues
Quote:
McLaren have not been proved to have made any gain from the info.
Did you not read the report?
How can you not understand the reality here?
nilagin said:If McLaren could be proved to be using the Ferrari technology and benefiting by it to beat Ferrari then maybe the punishement would be fitting, but no proof has been found so far.
For example disobeying the team to jump in front of Alonso in Hungary, refusing to let Alonso past to rectify this, and then arguing with the team over the radio. The particular language used has been debated, but not the fact that he refused to do what was told (and what he had doubtless agreed with during the previous days and hours of team meetings and strategising).
Surely, being in receipt and possession of information to which you're not entitled is an ill-gotten gain!
If McLaren tested the 'stuff' and did not use it, it can be deemed a benefit.... Why didn't they use it? Maybe that data put them several months in front of where they were and decided it wasn't for them..... If that's the case then, in my book, that's a benefit. And one to which McLaren were not entitled. Crime! :rules:
nilagin, chuckles has said it more diplomatically than I may have done.
If you really think that having info stolen from your competitors about their technical matters is not giving you any benefits then you are naive beyond my comprehension.
---clip---
In the recent hearing, it came out that in email evidence from Alonso and De La Rosa, things were tried or looked at but nothing was felt suitable for use on the McLaren car.
---snip---
If you believe everything the media tells you then you will never get the full facts. The were problems in Hingary, but Hamilton and the McLaren pit guys said in an interview afetrwards at no time did Hamilton swear at the team. Think what you want, but I would rather believe an intreview rather than the daily cr@p that the sun prints
Do we know what the strategy was? who says he disobeyed it? oh yes the sun and the rest of the media - why? cause it sold a story so that people can listen to it.
If you bothered to watch the post race interview at Monxa last week, Hamilton was saying the points were for the team, and the team did a good job etc etc, where as Alonso was all I did a good job, and this will help my drivers championship. Hamilton has done alot for F1 in this country over the past year, its just a shame the actiosn of a few have turned so many people against it now!
It must need re-skinning by nowI think you're beating that McLaren - anti-Ferrari drum too hard! :nono:
The only thing that McLaren could have used was the braking system as it was admitted in the emails that McLaren were already working on something similar. No proof that anything in the McLaren braking system was taken from the Ferrari information Everything else was unsuitable as the cars are different and the tyre gas was not tried at the opinon of a Bridgestone engineer. So if you don't use something how can it be of benefit.Hence, I stand by my original statement.....
You don't need to fit something on the car to derive a benefit from it. The use of the information is a benefit, or could be deemed as such.
The mere fact they were tried or looked at is a benefit in itself. The way I see it - if the natural development within the McLaren's evolution was going the way the Ferrari stuff ended up then deciding NOT to use it because it wasn't suitable for the McLaren has just GOT to be a benefit..... sorry, I don't see it any other way.
I think you're beating that McLaren - anti-Ferrari drum too hard! :nono:
That has absolutely nothing to do with the sport or the fans.When they started saying about the new work in Spa, it was new pit lane, new garages new media centre and a replacement stand. Is that all they can manage for the fans, knock down an exisiting grandstand and replace it with a new one! even itv said it was boring!!!
This may seem a little blunt nilagin but you're talking nonsense.
Quoted to edit typos and maybe for relevance.
. No proof that anything in the McLaren braking system was taken from the Ferrari information Everything else was unsuitable as the cars are different and the tyre gas was not tried at the opinon of a Bridgestone engineer. So if you don't use something how can it be of benefit.
Who let the SHG in? (Schumi Hate Group):shake:
Those comments are typical of what I was implying. Very few actual facts that form, a very strong opinion.
Most of those comments could equally be directed at many other drivers over the years.
I worked wit ha motorsport chap who vehemently hated Ferrari and Schumi(we had a swearbox in case we used the word) yet every week he had to concede the point that he was by far the best driver out there simply because as a driver & m/sprt man he knew the actualities rather than the opinions
.....
The benefit comes from not having to waste time going down that path of development and expense. It's kind of like having the benefit of hindsight.... somebody else's but in the future! They've (Ferrari in this instance) invested in time and money that McLaren don't have to..... you can use that saved time, effort and expense in doing something else. That "doing something else" has been gained through the effort of espionage or the handling, stealing, whatever you want to call it of some other body's efforts and expense. How that came about is immaterial, the inescapable fact is that it happened.
.....
So why has the FIA punished the whistle blower and expressly forbidden McLaren from punishing at least one of the culprits?