Medium format on a budget - Mamiya 645 vs Mamiya C series

I think i'm edging towards a 6x6 system, I suppose I feel that if i'm going to go with the bulk of a medium format system I may as well go for the larger (than 645) 6x6 negative - the square format will make a nice change.

I actually just had a bid on a nice looking s2a, but got pipped at the post!!
 
Hallsy said:
I think i'm edging towards a 6x6 system, I suppose I feel that if i'm going to go with the bulk of a medium format system I may as well go for the larger (than 645) 6x6 negative - the square format will make a nice change.

I actually just had a bid on a nice looking s2a, but got pipped at the post!!
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Just a few points you might not have thought of:- if you crop a 6X6 it's the same as using a 645 camera and you get 15 shots..the slight disadvantage for 645 is shooting vertically well most of us would use the speed grip which as mention would turn the camera into a large SLR.
Anyway good luck as I know when I went to medium format spent months choosing the right camera for me and eventually got there even after buying a few cameras and changing them.
 
Hallsy said:
I think i'm edging towards a 6x6 system, I suppose I feel that if i'm going to go with the bulk of a medium format system I may as well go for the larger (than 645) 6x6 negative - the square format will make a nice change.

I actually just had a bid on a nice looking s2a, but got pipped at the post!!
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The lenses are cheap comparatively because its focal plane but there's a big ole mirror in there banging about and the flash sync is something like 1/40th.
There is a leaf shutter lens in the range, I think its 100mm mebbe but I've only seen a handful of those for sale.
 
If it's any help, I wrote a comparison review between my Mamiya M645J and a Bronica S2A a while back;

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...nal-camera-review-thread.529199/#post-6132915

Personally, I like TLRs for 6x6 (I've stuck with my Yashica 635 because it shoots 3 different formats if I want it to) and the Mamiya M645 series for any other 120 shooting. The Mamiya lenses are excellent, and the overall system is very light for a medium format setup with interchangeable lenses.
 
I don't really know enough about cameras within budget to give any advice I'm afraid, but to say 80mm on MF is no good for portraiture is just absurd. Firstly, the term 'portraiture' is very broad but I assume some people mean a very tight head and shoulders shot when they use the term.
 
excalibur2 said:
H'mm well no one has suggested you can't get away with an 80mm lens...it's all about the right tool for the job (y)
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Think I just get cheesed off with people making statements as if things are black and white. Guess it hasn't happened yet in this thread but it happens a lot and definitely on TP as a whole. Sigh.

Although do you say yourself, Brian that......

excalibur2 said:
For head and shoulders a 85mm to 100mm lens on 35mm is about right, and for 6X7 camera it would be 180mm lens..so for 645 it would be roughly 120mm to 150mm.
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I have nothing longer than 80mm on medium format now or 50mm on 35mm. Actually, that's a lie, I still have my Nikon 85mm F1.4G left over from when I was a digital shooter that I am toying with selling. I use 80mm for pretty everything and am getting pretty good results. I also follow a LOT of wedding photographers who use 80mm on MF for pretty much everything.
 
gazmorton2000 said:
also follow a LOT of wedding photographers who use 80mm on MF for pretty much everything.
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Well that could be like the question that crops up for 35mm for a similar reason:- "if you could only take one manual focus prime lens on holiday, what would it be"?.. I've yet to see a 85mm or 100mm lens mentioned ;)
Times have changed since the old days when plenty of Rollei TLRs were used and today the wedding photographers I see have digi cameras with a large zoom fixed..and surely one advantage is you are not stuck with an only 80mm lens. o_O
 
simon ess said:
The lenses alone would get you to £400. If that 110mm is an f4.5 then Wow! I bet it won't be though.
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The 110mm was a PS version of the f4, I picked it up today. The lens on the camera turned out to be a PS 150/4 not an 80/2.8. The bloke at the shop said there's some more stuff here which was a backpack filled with film, four 6x6 120 backs, screens, filters, the bellows, a meter, a chimney finder and a Durst Componon Schneider Kreuznach 80/5.6 enlarging lens. I gave another £100 for these.

He also had a boxed Sinar LF camera possibly a Sinar P with three lens boards and two lenses. I told him it was too big and I had spent too much this month already and he said he would hold it. He had no idea of value and it had come from the same person as the Bronica.
 
Thanks again for all of the comments.

I'm still not totally decided on the 645 Vs 6x6 decision, I don't have a strong enough preference so will just see what comes up for sale in good condition.

The Mamiya 645 1000s with 80mm lens I had seen for £129 has sold, shame as it seemed like a good deal, but there will be others I'm sure.

I might even increase the budget as I do more research :D
 
stevelmx5 said:
If it's any help, I wrote a comparison review between my Mamiya M645J and a Bronica S2A a while back;

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...nal-camera-review-thread.529199/#post-6132915

Personally, I like TLRs for 6x6 (I've stuck with my Yashica 635 because it shoots 3 different formats if I want it to) and the Mamiya M645 series for any other 120 shooting. The Mamiya lenses are excellent, and the overall system is very light for a medium format setup with interchangeable lenses.
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Very helpful Steve - thank you. It's funny how often people talk about the weight of some of these MF setups, but I have no issues walking around with my gripped 5D all day long which is a similar weight to the S2a depending on lens fitted, so shouldn't be too much of a factor for me.
 
Hallsy said:
Very helpful Steve - thank you. It's funny how often people talk about the weight of some of these MF setups, but I have no issues walking around with my gripped 5D all day long which is a similar weight to the S2a depending on lens fitted, so shouldn't be too much of a factor for me.
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Weight is obviously very person specific. I can happily walk around carrying my RZ67 and have gotten sharp photos handheld at 1/60 second with the standard 110mm lens. That's despite the big mirror slapping about.
 
While weight hasn’t been an issue for me with my Yashica Mat 124, it’s certainly a pleasant experience using the Zeiss Mess-Ikonta I bought recently. It’s not without its own weight, but it’s such a compact little camera - especially when folded - that it’s a joy to use. Alright, the uncoupled rangefinder means things take slightly longer, but if, like the other day, you’re in steady light, you can set it up and then just shoot. It cost under £40 too.

Sorry for throwing folding cameras into the mix as another option @Hallsy . :)
 
@FishyFish - don't be sorry :)

I actually have a Kodak six-20 folder in my possesion at the moment which I have cleaned up for my father in law - I just haven't got around to putting a roll through it yet!!

Lovely little camera, which did lead me to look at some better quality folders - but for now I'm more interested in going down the TLR or SLR route (y)
 
Hallsy said:
Thanks again for all of the comments.

I'm still not totally decided on the 645 Vs 6x6 decision, I don't have a strong enough preference so will just see what comes up for sale in good condition.

The Mamiya 645 1000s with 80mm lens I had seen for £129 has sold, shame as it seemed like a good deal, but there will be others I'm sure.

I might even increase the budget as I do more research :D
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I think you should buy one of each. The C types are lightweight enough, and quiet and you can use them from the waist and get a 645 or RB67 with a prism so you can use it at eye level. How izzat?
 
TLR-330 said:
I think you should buy one of each. The C types are lightweight enough, and quiet and you can use them from the waist and get a 645 or RB67 with a prism so you can use it at eye level. How izzat?
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That is the conclusion I was starting to come to :LOL:

You can never have too many toys!
 
The strenght of the RB/RZ systems is the rotary back making them usefull with the waist level finder in both portrait and landscape orientation. The 645 format slr cameras and e.g. The Pentax 67 "needs" the prismfinder to be really usefull in portrait format. Then you have ergonomy, while the 645 slr's can be used at eyelevel without the (motor) grip they are far more comfortable with. As light and compact my Mamiya 645 Pro can be without the winder its heavy and bulky with this very much needed accesory.
Mamiya 645Pro, 80mm and Ae prismfinder. 1690g. 2135g with motor drive.
Pentax 6x7, 90mm and non metered prism . 2260g
Mamiya RZ67PROII, 110MM and waist level finder. 2570g
Yashica 124G. 1200g
The RZ might be heavy but the way you hold it using the WLF makes it feel lighter than the 645 Pro.
 
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Have been watching all sorts on ebay of late, put a few bids in, but not bought anything yet.

Have put a wanted thread up now, prefer buying off of here if possible - more likely to be as described!! Please check out my wanted advert if you think you might have something to offer up to £200 or so (y)
 
Thanks Simon - the purchase hasn't been made yet, but the wheels are in motion.

I couldn't resist taking a look at Michaels Yashica 124G also.....you can never have too many right?
 
I thought I should probably follow this thread up with some thoughts and photos!!!

I ended up being offered both a Yashica Mat 124-G and a Mamiya C330f with 80mm & 55mm lens. I couldn't decide which to go for, so decided to try both!!!

A couple of months later I have put a few rolls through both of them, but not as much as I would have liked - I had been working away and weather up & down. However, using both I think I will still keep both of them.

The Yashica is small and light, enough so that I had on my shoulder whilst in London last weeknd without any issue - I also find it faster/easier to use and reasonable results from my first roll through it!! I haven't put a battery in it so can't comment on the built in meter. When I first got the pair, I found the focusing screen to be brighter and easier to assess fine focus than the C330. After cleaning the C330 screen it was better, but I still think I find critical focusing on the Yashica a little easier.

The Mamiya..........what a piece of kit!! I love it's heft, the build, the bellows focusing. Initially, I couldn't work out how to fire the shutter.....I had to resort to the manual before realising the various lockouts present to prevent accidental exposure!! It certainly convinces you that it has the minerals to take a quality photograph!! I do find it slower to use than the Yashica, but the range of lenses and closer bellows focusing gives me something the Yashica doesn't have. Sadly, the first roll I had developed was rubbish. I'm not 100% sure what has gone wrong, in my haste to test the camera out, I used it on a day with some very poor conditions - it was very overcast, thick dull sky, misty and rainy!! So I don't really know if the resulting images were due to the poor conditions, me or the lenses - but I have another roll ready to develop to give it a second look. I have also just bought a 180mm Super - gives a lovely 'headshot' perspective and I'm looking forward to seeing the results!! It does make the C330 a little awkward to handhold at close focus though!!

So here are some results...my first rolls through a fully manual camera (apart from my Holga), I was quite happy with the results of the Yashica - I even managed an accidental double exposure! Two of them are very underexposed, but I realised I had misread my shutter speed after I took them!! Both are Portra 400.

https://adobe.ly/2ELitJv

And here are the rather poor results from the Mamiya - I am putting these firmly down to my own errors, but the next roll will confirm I'm sure!!

https://adobe.ly/2EIa89e

I have a roll of Tri-X ready to develop from the C330f - so will be interesting to see what I get second time around!!
 
Good work Hallsy, youve really nailed the focus and exposure on your first dog shot although I have to admit that the double exposure is my favorite shot on the roll.
 
RaglanSurf said:
Good work Hallsy, youve really nailed the focus and exposure on your first dog shot although I have to admit that the double exposure is my favorite shot on the roll.
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Thanks :) Such a shame I misread the shutter speed for the other two! Annoyingly, I realised shortly after - but it was all over by then!!

FishyFish said:
I love that shot of the chair and dresser. It needed a bit less aperture to get the chair sharp too perhaps, but the colours and subject matter are lovely.
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Thanks FishyFish, if anything, that is the one I was most disappointed with as I had missed focus (and as you suggest, needed some more depth of field) in a still life situation!! There was also some weird haziness from the french doors. I could accept the overcast ones looking bad and missing focus out and about, but that one should have been easy!!
 
Of the MF cameras I have or have had the one I regret selling the most is the SQA-i, the one I enjoy the most is my RZ67PROII, the one that got me started the MAT124 and the one that is most like a regular slr the M645PRO. While I like the 645 a lot it's the one I didn't bother turning into a full system. For travel/taking everywhere a 645 is a great format and significantly bigger than 24x36 but 6x7 uhmmm :)
 
soeren said:
Of the MF cameras I have or have had the one I regret selling the most is the SQA-i, the one I enjoy the most is my RZ67PROII, the one that got me started the MAT124 and the one that is most like a regular slr the M645PRO. While I like the 645 a lot it's the one I didn't bother turning into a full system. For travel/taking everywhere a 645 is a great format and significantly bigger than 24x36 but 6x7 uhmmm :)
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I bought an RZ67 Pro II earlier this year and compared to my Bronica etrsi kit I find it more enjoyable to use and find that the mirror lockup procedure is more foolproof. It's just a shame that it's such a beast to lug about. The lenses on both are fantastic.

Congratulations on your 124G and C330 results btw. For the first rolls of film through each they look good. Any new camera takes a while to adjust to (even something familiar in 35mm format) and these MF cameras have more steps to think about. I was convinced that I'd broken my RZ67 whilst trying to take a photo on my first ever roll of film through it. The shutter had opened but wouldn't close and I couldn't work out what to do. It turned out that I had knocked the switch on the lens for 'T' exposures (rather than drain the battery using 'bulb' there is a switch on the lens to open the shutter mechanically without using any battery power). Despite the shutter being open for longer than intended the resulting image still came out sufficiently well exposed but a little shaky (good old Tri-X).
 
soeren said:
Of the MF cameras I have or have had the one I regret selling the most is the SQA-i, the one I enjoy the most is my RZ67PROII, the one that got me started the MAT124 and the one that is most like a regular slr the M645PRO. While I like the 645 a lot it's the one I didn't bother turning into a full system. For travel/taking everywhere a 645 is a great format and significantly bigger than 24x36 but 6x7 uhmmm :)
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I may well add a 6x7 to my collection at some point. I was quite keen on the Pentax 67 but have heard they can have reliability problems, so perhaps the Mamiya is a safer bet!
 
So....I'm being tempted by a 6x7 SLR - what is a fair price to pay for an RB67 these days?

There is one for sale in my village, RB67 Pro-S with 127mm 3.8 C and non-metered prism. Apparently good working order but not used for some years. Seller wants around £250 for it which sounded fair to me?
 
Hallsy said:
I may well add a 6x7 to my collection at some point. I was quite keen on the Pentax 67 but have heard they can have reliability problems, so perhaps the Mamiya is a safer bet!
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Pentax made those 6x7 cameras for more than 30 years and they were used—and trusted—by many professional photographers. If those cameras weren't reliable, this would never have been the case. As this camera was a bit of a workhorse for some professional photographers, you will certainly need to watch for some bodies that have seen extensive use, but I really don't see a problem with being able to track down a decent body in the Pentax 6x7 system.
 
@skysh4rk I'm sure they are a well built and dependable camera, just that I had seen quite a few for sale with electronic issues.

As I say, I am going to look at a local RB67 in the morning, so will see how that pans out :)
 
That's not a bad price for the RB67 these days. Talking to the guys at Real Cameras in Manchester there is a real upsurge in medium format, especially 6x7. They had an RB67 out for service which I was interested in but there was a waiting list to buy! Just picked up a nice RZ67 Pro II kit which is arriving tomorrow.
 
LancsLee said:
That's not a bad price for the RB67 these days. Talking to the guys at Real Cameras in Manchester there is a real upsurge in medium format, especially 6x7. They had an RB67 out for service which I was interested in but there was a waiting list to buy! Just picked up a nice RZ67 Pro II kit which is arriving tomorrow.
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Cheers Lee - looking around on ebay it does seem like a fair price, although the odd one does seem to slip under the £200 radar.

If I can pick it up for a bit less, pending condition, then I will be very happy :)
 
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