Mice aggression

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#3
Is it just me? I really don't see what's so great about this picture. There's no detail in it anywhere and, if I'm perfectly honest, it looks like a coupe of Plasticine models set up to look like they're fighting.

No offence to the photographer, who happens to live locally, but if (as he says) this took 4 or 5 days to get then that's time I would rather spend more productively elsewhere.
 
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#4
Is it just me? I really don't see what's so great about this picture. There's no detail in it anywhere and, if I'm perfectly honest, it looks like a coupe of Plasticine models set up to look like they're fighting.

No offence to the photographer, who happens to live locally, but if (as he says) this took 4 or 5 days to get then that's time I would rather spend more productively elsewhere.
I'd have to disagree, technically it's not great I'll grant you, but it's completely original and a fantastic "moment in time" capture, far more interesting than the cliched "pretty" images that usually reap these rewards
 
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#5
Is it just me? I really don't see what's so great about this picture. There's no detail in it anywhere and, if I'm perfectly honest, it looks like a coupe of Plasticine models set up to look like they're fighting.

No offence to the photographer, who happens to live locally, but if (as he says) this took 4 or 5 days to get then that's time I would rather spend more productively elsewhere.
4-5 days of watching mice, is that because the same two mice hang about the same location at the same times everyday... Maybe fight club for mice, Hmmm, if it's genuine then it's a nice capture.
 
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simon ess

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#6
So a chap spends 5 nights on his belly on concrete to get an image of a rarely seen type of mouse, manages to get 2 of them fighting, but it's not good because you can't see fur detail?

OK.
 
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#7
Okay, here's where I'm coming from. If a newbie to this forum had posted this image for critique on this forum the majority of comments would have been scathing. Nothing of interest is in focus and the bright circle in the background would be heralded as a major distraction from the subject matter. The tunnel entrance is too large in the frame and the red blotch on the rear wall takes the eyes away from the action. Or comments along those lines.

The fact that the photographer spent 5 nights laying on the cold concrete of the platform does nothing to enhance the image ... it just suggests he needs to get some friends, put his camera away and go down the pub. I'm not surprised this is the peoples choice winner because it is the same level of dross that gets thousands of likes on farcebook every day of the week.
 
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#8
I'd have to disagree, technically it's not great I'll grant you, but it's completely original and a fantastic "moment in time" capture, far more interesting than the cliched "pretty" images that usually reap these rewards
We are all entitled to our opinions :) To say it's technically not great is an understatement of epic proportions - inept is the word that comes to my mind. Surely every image is original and a moment in time? if by "pretty" you mean technically better then I'll take the pretty pictures every time.

[/TIC]
 
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#9
So a chap spends 5 nights on his belly on concrete to get an image of a rarely seen type of mouse, manages to get 2 of them fighting, but it's not good because you can't see fur detail?

OK.
No, it's not good because there's NO DETAIL ANYWHERE IN THE FRAME. The fact he wasted 5 nights of his life to get this rubbish doesn't make it better than it is ... dross of the prime order.

We all have opinions and ours are equally relevant :)
 
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#10
It's a good picture. Maybe not in the eyes of camera nerds, but in the eyes of the people who really matter - the public - because it's content is engaging.

If it had been a tack sharp photo of two mice in the countryside and the photographer had spent five nights on his belly in mud I'm sure the nerds have given the pic the thumbs up.

However, I'm more surprised nobody has pulled the OP for cropping and posting an image which isn't his.

This is the original.
 
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#11
It's a good picture. Maybe not in the eyes of camera nerds, but in the eyes of the people who really matter - the public - because it's content is engaging.

If it had been a tack sharp photo of two mice in the countryside and the photographer had spent five nights on his belly in mud I'm sure the nerds have given the pic the thumbs up.

However, I'm more surprised nobody has pulled the OP for cropping and posting an image which isn't his.

This is the original.
Dave, This deservers some explanation I feel

Les
 
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#12
Dave, This deservers some explanation I feel

Les
Really?

I thought posting other people's photos was against TP rules. Cropping other people's photos without their permission certainly is.

Off out taking photos now.
 
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#14
Yes I believe that's true- my point was how do you know it's someone else's image ?

Les

I didn't think that was in question!

I'm off out now.
 
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#16
Okay, here's where I'm coming from. If a newbie to this forum had posted this image for critique on this forum the majority of comments would have been scathing. Nothing of interest is in focus and the bright circle in the background would be heralded as a major distraction from the subject matter. The tunnel entrance is too large in the frame and the red blotch on the rear wall takes the eyes away from the action. Or comments along those lines.

The fact that the photographer spent 5 nights laying on the cold concrete of the platform does nothing to enhance the image ... it just suggests he needs to get some friends, put his camera away and go down the pub. I'm not surprised this is the peoples choice winner because it is the same level of dross that gets thousands of likes on farcebook every day of the week.
I think firstly id say the above image is not the winning image it’s a crop of the winning image.

Not that there was more detail (as such) in the full image just more oof area.

I think your making the mistake of judging the image through the microcosm of this (or most forums) where bland copycat images are all the rage.

I’m afraid a forum isn’t the best place to look at or appreciate decent photography. Fantastic original photography can be found quite easily though if one looks for it.

I think the image is great. It’s everything that most images posted on the internet are not. It’s original. It’s taken by someone who uses their camera as a camera and not a photocopier.

As for using words like lack of detail and technically inept, so are most of the greatest images in history. And they are much better for it.
 
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#17
I think firstly id say the above image is not the winning image it’s a crop of the winning image.

Not that there was more detail (as such) in the full image just more oof area.

I think your making the mistake of judging the image through the microcosm of this (or most forums) where bland copycat images are all the rage.

I’m afraid a forum isn’t the best place to look at or appreciate decent photography. Fantastic original photography can be found quite easily though if one looks for it.

I think the image is great. It’s everything that most images posted on the internet are not. It’s original. It’s taken by someone who uses their camera as a camera and not a photocopier.

As for using words like lack of detail and technically inept, so are most of the greatest images in history. And they are much better for it.
thats what I said....sort of :)
 
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#20
It is what it is ... the "People's Choice" from those submitted that didn't actually win the competition, (or at least a random crop from that image).
Is it a good image?
It depends from which direction you are coming from.
Is it technically excellent? No!
Does it engage and capture a 'moment in time'? Yes!
Particularly with wildlife photography, (but also with other genres, like street/candid etc), something 'different' happens in a moment and often in less than ideal conditions ... capturing that moment is what it's all about and that's what he has done here.
We often hear wildlife hides and workshops being condemned, "go out and stalk your subjects, get them truly in the wild..." ... well that's what this member of the BBC Wildlife Unit did. Five nights on a cold station platform catching an unusual interaction between two animals in much less than ideal photographic conditions.
Like it or loathe it, you probably have never see this interaction between two mice photographed before and you may not see it again. surely that's worth something? :)
 
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#21
It is what it is ... the "People's Choice" from those submitted that didn't actually win the competition, (or at least a random crop from that image).
Is it a good image?
It depends from which direction you are coming from.
Is it technically excellent? No!
Does it engage and capture a 'moment in time'? Yes!
Particularly with wildlife photography, (but also with other genres, like street/candid etc), something 'different' happens in a moment and often in less than ideal conditions ... capturing that moment is what it's all about and that's what he has done here.
We often hear wildlife hides and workshops being condemned, "go out and stalk your subjects, get them truly in the wild..." ... well that's what this member of the BBC Wildlife Unit did. Five nights on a cold station platform catching an unusual interaction between two animals in much less than ideal photographic conditions.
Like it or loathe it, you probably have never see this interaction between two mice photographed before and you may not see it again. surely that's worth something? :)
Why isn’t it technically excellent? The tiny subject is well defined, nicely silhouetted?
 

Caerus

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#22
It is what it is ... the "People's Choice" from those submitted that didn't actually win the competition, (or at least a random crop from that image).
Is it a good image?
It depends from which direction you are coming from.
Is it technically excellent? No!
Does it engage and capture a 'moment in time'? Yes!
Particularly with wildlife photography, (but also with other genres, like street/candid etc), something 'different' happens in a moment and often in less than ideal conditions ... capturing that moment is what it's all about and that's what he has done here.
We often hear wildlife hides and workshops being condemned, "go out and stalk your subjects, get them truly in the wild..." ... well that's what this member of the BBC Wildlife Unit did. Five nights on a cold station platform catching an unusual interaction between two animals in much less than ideal photographic conditions.
Like it or loathe it, you probably have never see this interaction between two mice photographed before and you may not see it again. surely that's worth something? :)
The heart of the photo is desperation as stated by the photographer though, fighting over the tiniest bit of food.

Just two mice fighting does not work by itself, I can make images of two Cats fighting in or out of focus and trust me I wont even get a single like let alone 28,000 votes as Wildlife photographer of the year.

I really don't think it is just capture two mice fighting, I think it won because it has a lot more that that about it.

Not my cup of tea at all however and I don't rate it personally.

As I say, I can get two Cats having a right bust up lol and everyone will boo me
 
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#25
Why isn’t it technically excellent? The tiny subject is well defined, nicely silhouetted?
well primarily because the focus is slightly off I think, very shallow depth of field and the foreground just in front of the combatants is in focus. Also subject is tiny in the frame, distracting highlights, and large patches of black nothingness.

Doesn't stop it being great shot and a deserving winner though
 
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#26
Why isn’t it technically excellent? The tiny subject is well defined, nicely silhouetted?
I don't believe it is technically excellent, it is an objective view ... he probably made the best of the conditions but he could perhaps have made the conditions better to produce a more technically excellent photo (IMO).
The heart of the photo is desperation as stated by the photographer though, fighting over the tiniest bit of food.

Just two mice fighting does not work by itself, I can make images of two Cats fighting in or out of focus and trust me I wont even get a single like let alone 28,000 votes as Wildlife photographer of the year.

I really don't think it is just capture two mice fighting, I think it won because it has a lot more that that about it.

Not my cup of tea at all however and I don't rate it personally.

As I say, I can get two Cats having a right bust up lol and everyone will boo me
Anyone can photograph two cats fighting, come back when you have photographed two mice fighting!
 
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#28
well primarily because the focus is slightly off I think, very shallow depth of field and the foreground just in front of the combatants is in focus. Also subject is tiny in the frame, distracting highlights, and large patches of black nothingness.

Doesn't stop it being great shot and a deserving winner though
I’ll have to disagree.

At web sizes and jpeg compression we really can’t tell about focus accuracy.
Shallow dof is artistic not technical. Nothing to do with poor technique.
The subjects need to be tiny in the frame to give it a sense of scale. Again nothing to do with poor technique, artistic vision yes.

If you look at the whole image and not this tiny crop then highlights and black patches are given a sense of scale. The black patch is a tunnel!

This is a technically excellent photo.

Im guessing on the whole it’s camera club members who don’t like this?
 

TheBigYin

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#29
lets see some proof please?
how about reading the link in the second post...

Winning image by Sam Rowley, Bristol Based Photographer (https://www.sam-rowley.com/ ) , not Geof, 77, from Southwest Cornwall.

edit: as to the posting of other peoples copyright images, defaced (ie cropped) for who knows what intent - a warning has been issued. If of course, Geof can give us documentary proof that he's been posting for 10+ years on here under an assumed name, then I'll happily issue a full apology on behalf of TP - and will expect eveyone else on here to give him warm congratulations on his win.

ETA (again): BTW folks, there's not that many staff here on a day to day basis, and we can only moderate what we see or have called to our attention. So, if you see something "off", RTM it. I'd never have seen this thread if it hadn't been reported (thanks to the member who did BTW :) )
 
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#30
I wonder how he managed to get the photo, he spent five nights waiting to get the photo. I wonder if the station was open when he took it, as you can see what looks like a person, to be sitting down to the left of the photo. Also the mouse on the left, would probably be frightened or angry, I would have thought the tail would be curled up, and not flat, and on the floor. :thinking:
 

KIPAX

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#32
.I guess the warning esculated as the OP has now been banned/suspended... So its not his picture... Why would you post a picture with just the title winner.. and no explanation... i just presumed it was his until i read the replies:(
 
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#34
.I guess the warning esculated as the OP has now been banned/suspended... So its not his picture... Why would you post a picture with just the title winner.. and no explanation... i just presumed it was his until i read the replies:(
and why crop out the copyright?
Surely it should be removed from the post ... links to the proper source have been posted.
 

TheBigYin

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#35
and why crop out the copyright?
Surely it should be removed from the post ... links to the proper source have been posted.
I was just getting to that, but my breakfast was getting cold... it's gone now

FWIW, I also think that the "correct" crop of the image certainly told more of the story, and added far more context to the whole image... Not to mention cropping to remove copyright details is bang out of order. PLEASE FOLKS, if you see anything like this, let us know - we don't take kindly to being put into a position where we're unwittingly displaying this type of action, and as a photographers resource we fully and completely support photographers right to copyright protection.
 
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#37
Is it just me? I really don't see what's so great about this picture. There's no detail in it anywhere and, if I'm perfectly honest, it looks like a coupe of Plasticine models set up to look like they're fighting.

No offence to the photographer, who happens to live locally, but if (as he says) this took 4 or 5 days to get then that's time I would rather spend more productively elsewhere.
Thats what it looks like to me too.
 
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#38
I think its a fabulous photo catches a fleeting moment in time, something most of us would never see.

While some may claim it is not technically very good, I fancy this shot is beyond the technical ability of many.
 
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#39
Mods why has @Caerus post not been edited, does providing a link allow us to post copyright protected photos?
 
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colin
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#40
I’ll have to disagree.

At web sizes and jpeg compression we really can’t tell about focus accuracy.
Shallow dof is artistic not technical. Nothing to do with poor technique.
The subjects need to be tiny in the frame to give it a sense of scale. Again nothing to do with poor technique, artistic vision yes.

If you look at the whole image and not this tiny crop then highlights and black patches are given a sense of scale. The black patch is a tunnel!

This is a technically excellent photo.

Im guessing on the whole it’s camera club members who don’t like this?
how very dare you :)

I never said (a) that shallow DoF was poor technically, or (b) I didn't like it, in fact I think it's an excellent image and well worthy of the accolade. The post you quoted was pointing out some issues with the image from a purely technical viewpoint measured against the "accepted norms" (tbh I can see where your reference to camera clubs came from here). FWIW I have no issue with any of the points I made
 
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