missing plane

treeman said:
They're now saying the two transponders were deliberately turned off, 14 minutes apart, and the then the last 'Ping' sent out to Rolls Royce, was 4 hours later, before they too were turned off, is it not possible that this plane landed somewhere else, possibly safely?
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anything is possible, but you'd have to wonder why - to pull that off and keep it secret would require collaboration at a goverment level , and even then you'd have to be pretty lucky not to have another government find out about it
 
TCR4x4 said:
So the short version..

We still have no idea where it is, or what happened to it...
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Unless you are Channel 5, then you already have the full story and will have a full hour long special about what happened to the flight on TV tonight ;).

http://www.channel5.com/shows/the-plane-that-vanished-live

nixweiss.gif
 
Nikon_Nick said:
I appreciate the human tragedy element to this story, and I really do feel for the families of those missing, but I have to say im finding this whole thing extremely interesting. A real mystery...very Hollywood movie-like.
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Yep, that is pretty much how I feel about it, absolute sympathy for the families and friends, but fascinated by the story and whilst I am still fairly certain they will eventually and sadly find a crashed plane with no survivors, the current mystery and story makes for fascinating watching.
 
TCR4x4 said:
So the short version..

We still have no idea where it is, or what happened to it...
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Yes, as the Transport Minister in KL said yesterday "A plane has vanished".
 
They're now saying the two transponders were deliberately turned off, 14 minutes apart, and the then the last 'Ping' sent out to Rolls Royce, was 4 hours later, before they too were turned off, is it not possible that this plane landed somewhere else, possibly safely?
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Where do you get the

"They're now saying the two transponders were deliberately turned off, 14 minutes apart, and the then the last 'Ping' sent out to Rolls Royce, was 4 hours later, before they too were turned off"

From?

From the latest press briefing I saw, the RR bit has been shown to be rubbish. If there are, and I'd guess there probably are 2 transponders on the aircraft, there's no way of telling which is operating, or if they were switched to off, or ceased transmitting, so the first bit of what you said is another unlikely piece of information.

As to finding somewhere safe to land? No idea how much fuel was on it and it's impossible to guess the range, given that IF it went covert, at low level, it would burn fuel at a far greater rate. But going East it would be picked up by air defence radars, going West, there's not much between Malaya and Sri Lanka/India/Maldives none of which are likely to want to be involved in anything naughty. North West there's Bangladesh, which is unlikely to be involved in a cover up either, then there's Burma. You'd need a long runway for a 777, and there's not many of those sufficiently away from population. If there are people they would notice and it would be all over the news by now. So the next question is why would you want to do that?
 
Bernie, that information was indeed being broadcast by American news channels/media last night [ok, small hours of this morning for us], including a piece that the 777 can actually land on a relatively short runway, or even hard piece of earth, much better than other aircraft of its size. No idea if that is accurate or not, I am just saying that what Mark has quoted was indeed being reported and speculated about - albeit by the Americans *cough*
 
Yv said:
Bernie, that information was indeed being broadcast by American news channels/media last night [ok, small hours of this morning for us], including a piece that the 777 can actually land on a relatively short runway, or even hard piece of earth, much better than other aircraft of its size. No idea if that is accurate or not, I am just saying that what Mark has quoted was indeed being reported and speculated about - albeit by the Americans *cough*
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Fox news were reporting definitively that it had reached pakistan - the problem being that a lot of murrican news is rubbish
 
true if you remove the "oxy"
 
Absolutely, hence my *cough* Although todays latest news seems to be that the aircraft, or rather 'an unidentified aircraft believed to be MH370' was flown between known navigation points in a west and north western direction after radar contact was lost with it. This is coming out of sources that have spoken to Rueters, not Fox or ABC, though of course, no names, no pack drill. The Americans and I think the Indians have ships heading to search the INdian Ocean and around the Adanam Islands based on what they know or think they know, and you don't go to that kind of expense without good reason.... or, perhpas you do, given the countries involved.... :confused:
 
Thanks Yv...That explains it then.
Not seen any tests involving landing a pax aircraft on unprepared strips, but I somehow doubt that would work very well... I'd think they have taken the landing run distances for a 777 and compared it against a 747. But that wouldn't take into account the surface and problems that would cause.
In theory it's possible I suppose, but even if it got down in one piece, the danger of fire from an engine damaged by sucking in crap in reverse thrust is quite high. In any case having somewhere like that involves a lot of people, and for what reason? None that is obvious.
 
Malaysian officials are still saying that the reports of 'pings' to the RR sattelite from engines continuing for 4 hours more are simply not true, but based on that they are expanding the search area into the Indian Ocean - all of which seems very contradictory but at the same time, they have to be seen to act on all information I guess. However, what I am working my way round to saying is something I read a few days ago [trying to find the article in my browser history but drawn a blank so far] which was actually about the Malaysian government and the reasons for the apparent confusion, misinformation, denials, announcements, etc etc. A journalist that has been based out there for a few years was basically saying that the government is quite simply not used to having to deal with this kind of thing, where communication and assistance from other countries is essential and where having to take advice from other countries and/or authorities is very alien to them. Much of the Malay gov is made up of 'jobs for the boys' and they are used to doing things in a somewhat less than transparent way, with no one questioning any of it - they aren't used to be told what they should do by those with better/more informed ideas/information. An incident like this has totally thrown them into disarray, more so than it would with some other countries. Now again, I claim no knowledge of politics in the area, but I thought it an interesting viewpoint that does explain some of the contradictions and confusion about what information has, hasn't, should have, shouldn't have been shared.
 
I've heard the same thing about the Malayan bureaucracy. Given that nothing has been found going East yet, and there is in the eyes of some a possibility of it having gone West, it's probably being seen as better to at least make a start on that direction now. If not, then it becomes more and more difficult over time to find the aircraft.
What we are seeing though is a magnification of almost every major incident in terms of information. At first things are arriving from all directions, and it does take time, even when you are organised and used to that sort of thing, to put it together into some form of picture which can be released. I think the Malaysians jumping in too quickly trying to satisfy the media, and perhaps should have waited a few days before saying much more than it's missing and we're looking for it.
 
arclight said:
Malaysian press conference in KL this morning:-

1 Turnback not 100% certified. primary military radar shows an unidentified aircraft flew across the peninsula.
2 US satelliet information cannot be revealed right now until verified and confirmed
3 we are now sharing info that is not normally shared because of national security
4 cannot confirm that there has been no hijacking
5 we are extending the search into the Indian Ocean and further into the South China Sea
6 two oil slicks found near area of last point of contact - one had jet fuel but say not from MH370. Other had no jet fuel.
7 Plane flew across the peninsula and on up to Andaman islands question - Transport minister will not confirm or verify.
8 Reports engine data continued not true.
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treeman said:
Sorry I've not read this whole thread, so may have been mentioned already.


As for #6, how do they know that? Are there different types of Jet fuel? Does say BP have different "markers" in than say, Shell? (Assuming both make Jet fuel!)

They're now saying the two transponders were deliberately turned off, 14 minutes apart, and the then the last 'Ping' sent out to Rolls Royce, was 4 hours later, before they too were turned off, is it not possible that this plane landed somewhere else, possibly safely?
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Whilst anything is a possibility, chances of landing a 777 somewhere safely, and "nobody" spotting it..... better chance of winning the Euromillions tonight
 
CNN this morning are reporting that full technical analysis, have record the planes position as north and west 4-5 hours after the transponders were turned off in an attempt to mask the planes directions. They also have seen the planes attitude changing climbing up and down and changing course a few times, indicating a lack of control, so are suggesting the pilots not in control of the plane. They are now suggesting a hijack and are relooking at the Iranians with false passports.
 
Which makes me think, the captain had a simulator he'd built in his home. Was that not for him but to train others?
 
Byker28i said:
Which makes me think, the captain had a simulator he'd built in his home. Was that not for him but to train others?
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Most pilots love flying. Many commercial pilots also fly hang gliders,light aircraft, aerobatics, etc etc. a simulator at home isn't really unusual
 
boyfalldown said:
Most pilots love flying. Many commercial pilots also fly hang gliders,light aircraft, aerobatics, etc etc. a simulator at home isn't really unusual
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Several years ago, watching some house moving program, or something, can't recall what the hell it was, one of the lifestyle reality things - however, there was a guy in it that had a full blown airliner flight simulator in the space under his stairs. He was portrayed as something of an anorak, a plane spotter that took his hobby to extremes though I think he may of had a flying licence for small aircraft. Actually, just remembered, I think it was a Come Dine With Me episode as I now remember the other 'guests' finding it. Don't ask why I might have been watching such inane rubbish :exit:



Meanwhile the Malaysian prime minister has now agreed that satellite signals were indeed received many hours after the other systems were disabled [in whatever way] and they have now shifted the search to new areas with the indication that they do think hijack is a possibility and habe now decided to go public with it, despite previous denials about the satellite information.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26591056
 
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Lynton said:
So far as far as I know, nothing been found... it's at the bottom of somewhere very wet. How it got there without debris though, i have no idea.
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If the plane was to descend downwards in a vertical manner, not as though they were landing but as in noses heading straight to the ground and tail to the heavens. Then when the plane hits water, that's if it has hit water, then with force of the plane submerging it was cause a vortex which in turn would pull the most of the debris with it as the plane sinks further. Therefore the chances of finding much debris would be slim but then again I could be wrong.:thinking:
 
archangel said:
If the plane was to descend downwards in a vertical manner, not as though they were landing but as in noses heading straight to the ground and tail to the heavens. Then when the plane hits water, that's if it has hit water, then with force of the plane submerging it was cause a vortex which in turn would pull the most of the debris with it as the plane sinks further. Therefore the chances of finding much debris would be slim but then again I could be wrong.:thinking:
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I have seen that Come Dine with Me, the producers obviously pair up people who are going to wind each other up. Image, then a version of TP photographers with strong opinions. It would be hilarious !
 
Malaysian police have said they are searching the pilot's house.
A lot of info seems to getting made public long after it was known to the authorities such as the plane having flown for over 5 hours after last contact. Things get curiouser and curiouser.
 
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Its a terrible thing and my prayers go out to the poor people all tied up with this. Its starting to look very much like a hijacking gone wrong for me.

I do think this poor plane will turn up much further away from where it should be and also hope it has managed to land to give the people a ray of hope.
 
boyfalldown said:
Most pilots love flying. Many commercial pilots also fly hang gliders,light aircraft, aerobatics, etc etc. a simulator at home isn't really unusual
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Most of the pilots on PPRuNe seem to disagree with the idea of having a simulator as a normal thing, as they say, if you fly a 777 for 10 hours a day, using a 777 simulator is just like another day at work, that's why they go for gliders or aerobatic planes, they love flying and it's something different from "being at the office".
 
I wouldn't get too excited about what PPrune contributers think. Some are pilots, but most that are seem to be staying out of the thread over there. In any case, just because some say it's strange, doesn't make it so. It's a bit like professional photographers using their work kit to take pictures of the wife and kids.

Doug. Again, I wouldn't read anything into delays in telling the world what's going on. The UK does it in major incidents. A sad part about these incidents is that if you release a lot of detail, all of a sudden people decide they 'saw' or 'heard' something that ends up being a red herring.

As for searching the crews homes, I would have been getting that done after the first day, as I am sure the Malay Authorities probably did.
 
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Bernie174 said:
I wouldn't get too excited about what PPrune contributers think. Some are pilots, but most that are seem to be staying out of the thread over there. In any case, just because some say it's strange, doesn't make it so. It's a bit like professional photographers using their work kit to take pictures of the wife and kids.
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There is a lot of wild speculation on Pprune over this (200 pages of it, now). Quite a few people making their first post on that thread. Pprune has become a hunting ground for journos looking snippets of info.
 
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Fresh from the rumour-mill.

The Fountain of Truth said:
Doomed airliner pilot was political fanatic: Hours before taking control of flight MH370 he attended trial of jailed opposition leader as FBI reveal passengers could be at a secret location.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-trial-jailed-opposition-leader-sodomite.html

Read with a pinch of salt due to the source (DM) but interesting if true.

Surely this whole missing plane thing is a bit too extreme to be a political protest solely because the pilots favourite politician was being smeared?
 
Comment of the day:

DM Comments - richtapestry said:
Passengers on all flights should be allowed to check the political and religious backgrounds of the aircraft crew before booking their flights.
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DM Comments - richtapestry said:
Passengers on all flights should be allowed to check the political and religious backgrounds of the aircraft crew before booking their flights.
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Oh? And how does the DM think that's going to work when the crew changes at the last minute due to sickness/late arrival of the crews previous sector or any other reason????
 
Bernie174 said:
Oh? And how does the DM think that's going to work when the crew changes at the last minute due to sickness/late arrival of the crews previous sector or any other reason????
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I am guessing that was quoted from the comments section underneath the article, not the DM itself. If you ever need a really good laugh, the DM comments on articles by members of the public are a good place to start :rolleyes:
 
I would give no credence to the Daily Wail, according to them everything is bad for you and gives you cancer!
 
archangel said:
If the plane was to descend downwards in a vertical manner, not as though they were landing but as in noses heading straight to the ground and tail to the heavens. Then when the plane hits water, that's if it has hit water, then with force of the plane submerging it was cause a vortex which in turn would pull the most of the debris with it as the plane sinks further. Therefore the chances of finding much debris would be slim but then again I could be wrong.:thinking:
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Having just flown back on a 777, this really isn't the case. The plane will break up, the cabin is full of personal effects, pillows and quilts from the elite class, shoes, bags, all sorts of stuff that would float. There's no way all that would be pulled down. Something would show.
 
archangel said:
If the plane was to descend downwards in a vertical manner, not as though they were landing but as in noses heading straight to the ground and tail to the heavens. Then when the plane hits water, that's if it has hit water, then with force of the plane submerging it was cause a vortex which in turn would pull the most of the debris with it as the plane sinks further. Therefore the chances of finding much debris would be slim but then again I could be wrong.:thinking:
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Aircraft hitting water directly like that may as well be hitting concrete, it would be torn to shreds in milliseconds rather than sink complete.

Byker28i said:
Having just flown back on a 777, this really isn't the case.
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Indeed it isn't but it would be the same case for any commercial plane, not just the 777.
 
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Byker28i said:
Having just flown back on a 777, this really isn't the case. The plane will break up, the cabin is full of personal effects, pillows and quilts from the elite class, shoes, bags, all sorts of stuff that would float. There's no way all that would be pulled down. Something would show.
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I think that a plane hitting water at speed would be similar to hitting concrete. It would smash up into millions of pieces. As you allude to, a lot of the soft bouyant material would surface. and steadily disperse.
 
PMN said:
Aircraft hitting water directly like that may as well be hitting concrete, it would be torn to shreds in milliseconds rather than sink complete.



Indeed it isn't but it would be the same case for any commercial plane, not just the 777.
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According to a pilot that was interviewed on radio 2 the vortex would pull most of the debris making it difficult for search and rescue to identify......eventually the tidal force will disperse the buoyant stuff.......similar to the air France crash in the Atlantic......but like I say as I am no expert I may be wrong:confused:
 
archangel said:
According to a pilot that was interviewed on radio 2 the vortex would pull most of the debris making it difficult for search and rescue to identify......eventually the tidal force will disperse the buoyant stuff.......similar to the air France crash in the Atlantic......but like I say as I am no expert I may be wrong:confused:
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Air France flight 447? Debris was spotted the followign day: The sighted wreckage included “an orange life vest, an aircraft seat, a drum, kerosene and oil,”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/world/europe/03plane.html?_r=0

It took ages for the black boxes to be recovered due to the depth of water
 
I flew back on a similar plane last night from Thailand. As you walk out the front exit (I was sat almost last in the plane) it's amazing just how much loose stuff is left behind on the floors, on the nice fancy bed seats etc. They hand out pillows, blankets (or quilts for the posh seats), slippers, newspapers, cups, all sorts.
 
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