Workshop Need some help and advice.

Ch1Ck3n TiM3

Ch1Ck3n TiM3

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Brett
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So I have a Canon 1200d with sigma 70-300mm. I'm trying to shoot birds but they all seem to come out not in focus. I have tried all sorts from manual focus and changing aperture and iso and shutter speed and meter readings but still the same result
 
I'm afraid I know little about your Canon and 70-300 combo but I'm going to start the ball rolling with this.

Birds generally are pretty small and fast. Very probably you are using the 70-300 without a tripod and at the fullest extent of the lens, I.e at 300mm.

Very probably the aperture is going to be f5.6 or higher and that'll mean that your shutter is likely to be slower. You hand holding the camera is likely to have enough shake to offer the result you talk about. As birds are fast you need to keep your shutter fairly swift.

Hopefully this helps?
 
Makes sense but even when I up the shutter speed to 1/1000 and F7.1 it's still blurry. Thanks for the reply mate
 
If you can do a remote or timed shutter with the camera on something solid, pointing at something not moving and if it still comes out blurry, MAYBE there is a problem but bet it is either you wobbling even a tiny bit either in gait or when you press the shutter. 70-300 lenses at 300mm have been my downfall in the past and I have found only useful when used with a remote shutter and tripod.
 
I shall try that. Would even a slight wobble at 1/1000 still make the focus off? Is there a better meter reading to use for small birds like Robins?
 
The first question is - are other photographs you take of static subject in focus and sharp?

If so this is surely camera handling technique and need to develop your technique.

Please do post an example or two of these pictures, only then can it be confirmed if camera shake or bird not in focus.......or a combination of the two?

As I said, at the very least try shooting at 300mm something static like the lamppost across the road or a brick wall so show that you are hand holding nice and steady. Do this with at least a shutter speed of 1/600 minimum.

Once you can prove a sharp and in focus image like the brick wall them "we" can start talking about bird photography techniques ;)
 
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I improved with practice - and a tripod and remote shutter. You'll see the more affluent types here will maybe suggest a lens that will allow more light in. You see the togs at the football later. They will probably have a humungous lens and a tripod and they are aiming at a huge millionaire rather than a tiny robin.
 
So i have uploaded some shots for you guys to see, The first one is on a tripod , @1/1000 F9.0 ISO 2000 at 300mm The second photo is HAND held @1/1000 F14 ISO 3200 @300mm.
I can see more detail in the tripod photo but not as much as i would like, Its very cloudy with no real sunlight to help. Any advice would really help me, i really dont want it to be a problem with either camera or lens as i dont have the money to replace either. I would just like nice sharp colorful photos. I would link them from my Flikr account so you could zoom in but i dont know how too lol.
IMG_4268.jpg
IMG_4258.jpg
 
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Wow, ISO 2000 and ISO 3200. Nikon has a bit of software to see your actual focus point - and I'd bet that Canon has something similar. Is the focus point exactly where you thought it was? Not the fence or a peg? That said, I think you have what you are going to get, maybe a bit of tweeking in PS may help?
 
So check your focus point if you can with software. My 70-300 was pretty cheap and so I can be philosophical about the results. Maybe yours is better or that you will be able to squeeze a better result from it. From memory, I think I found that round 200mm was about the best range for mine.

Hopefully someone else will be along soon with better advice than mine.

After edit; I just realised I have the Nikon fit Sigma 70-300.
 
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Are you using centre focus point and recomposing or are you selecting the focus point closest to your subject?
 
Ok well try different single focus points and then a range of groups and then the total auto focus group, just to determine if it's a lens issue.

It could be back focussing which can be adjusted using a focus card and your camera to a certain extent. Failing that you could ask someone like Lehmans in Stoke to take a look as they are quite reasonable
 
OK I shall try that. Thanks. At short range between 70 and 200mm even on the 300mm macro it focuses great. I shall try your method tomorrow if the sun is out
 
Why have you used f9 and f14 respectively? Many/most lens perform at about a sweet spot of f8......though your starting point should be wide open at f5.6 @300m end.

What about the camera setup?
What AF mode i.e. one shot or AI Servo?
Which 'mode' Shutter priority or Aperture Priority?

It is possible your copy of the lens is a little 'soft' in the centre, why? because on the first one taken on the tripod ~ though you are not square on it looks to me like the outer parts of the frame are sharper than the centre (I ma looking at the grain in the fence panels!

With the fence area of the line and far blue peg, take a picture of that peg at the centre of the image using the centre focusing point only in One Shot mode at f5.6, then f6.3 then f7.1, then f8 and see how they look ~ the peg is almost the same size a Robin so a good way to check critical focus at the most useful apertures. If the peg is sharp (assuming it is not moving because of wind effect) then apart from the Robin covering less than 5% of the frame it is possible that the bird is moving..........by that I mean micro movements that affect the appearance of sharpness.

Do you get pigeons in the garden or even perhaps a local lake with geese and ducks etc? If so try to fill more of the frame, because subject to the sort of confirmatory checks I mention the robin is just too darned small in the frame to be 100% sure why you are struggling.

If there is an issue with front or back focusing then hopefuly that can be calibrated by such as Lehmans as suggested above?

Edit ~ I think there are different versions of the 70-300 which one is yours?
 
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I did start at f5.6 and move up. I'm going to try focusing on the peg and using different focus points. Hopefully it's just me and not the lens. I have a sigma 70-300
 
Ch1Ck3n TiM3 said:
I did start at f5.6 and move up. I'm going to try focusing on the peg and using different focus points. Hopefully it's just me and not the lens. I have a sigma 70-300
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I meant there AFAIK different versions of the Sigma 70-300 lens, which one is yours (it should say on the lens or its box the exact model? ;) Oh, is it new and if so when bought, it would not the first time there was copy to copy differences!

Yes, if you can try the different focusing points that might reveal whether there is hint of centre softness though none of the 9 points are that close to the frame edges :(

Why did you end up using f9 and f14? And what about the answers to the other questions I raised :)

PS you mention your Flickr, care to link as seeing them there might help?
 
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I usually always shoot Manual with Al servo for moving subjects if I am on auto focus which for this I was. Usually I like manual focus. Yeah we get pigeons and we have a huge lake very close by. Is a lens that's soft in the centre a bad thing? Sorry if I seem like I'm not sure but I'm still pretty new. All I see is Sigma 70-300mm f4.5-5.6 DG telephoto zoom lens with macro
 
I have tried with Aperture priority and upping it after every shot to see how the detail and sharpness changes I saw better details in f9 and f14 with the tripod as the Robin was just a little further away. F5.6 works good on a nice sunny day but it was drab and cloudy
 
Ch1Ck3n TiM3 said:
I usually always shoot Manual with Al servo for moving subjects if I am on auto focus which for this I was. Usually I like manual focus. Yeah we get pigeons and we have a huge lake very close by. Is a lens that's soft in the centre a bad thing? Sorry if I seem like I'm not sure but I'm still pretty new. All I see is Sigma 70-300mm f4.5-5.6 DG telephoto zoom lens with macro
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Can you please specify what you mean by "I usually always shoot Manual with Al servo for moving subjects if I am on auto focus which for this I was" do you mean manual setting of Shutter speed, Aperture and ISO? Or are you, as you mention it, manually focusing in which case how are you sure the subject is bang on in focus???

For the posted images were you in auto focusing with One Shot or AI servo (frankly the focusing screens in virtually all modern dSLR's are rubbish for manual focusing!)

Yes, AI servo is designed for capturing moving subjects but in the lower grade models it is has not been in the past that reliable and can lose track too easily.

As for centre softness at the long end of a zoom or indeed anywhere is in range to that is not good..............if it is going to soft I would prefer it be at the edges.

Edit ~ most reviews of that lens are quite good with a few saying how poor it is.............perhaps you do indeed have a bad copy but that can only be 'proven' by careful testing to show where it is bad!
 
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Yes the mode I was in was manual so I set everything except ISO which is auto. Both images were shot with auto focus with Al Servo
 
Ch1Ck3n TiM3 said:
Yes the mode I was in was manual so I set everything except ISO which is auto. Both images were shot with auto focus with Al Servo
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Ah! try the same sort of shots in One Shot AF. AI servo will allow the shutter to release whether the AF system 'thinks' it has focused or not PLUS the AI servo will be making micro adjustments all the time so with a static subject it will be hunting ever so slightly.

Start again on the tripod using Auto Focus, with One Shot not AI Servo and then see what sort of results you get :)

Note ~ in One Shot you will get focus confirmation with either the lit green in the viewfinder plus a beep unless you have turned off the beep ;)
 
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I shall try that also. I get the light and beep confirmation with Al servo too. I'm hoping it's just me as I can't afford to be getting things fixed at the moment. Thanks to everyone so far you've been amazing and will keep you all posted when I try everything out tomorrow
 
Ch1Ck3n TiM3 said:
I shall try that also. I get the light and beep confirmation with Al servo too. I'm hoping it's just me as I can't afford to be getting things fixed at the moment. Thanks to everyone so far you've been amazing and will keep you all posted when I try everything out tomorrow
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Re Light & beep in AI servo ~ well that sounds like a different feature set to what I am used ~ daft question? It is AI Servo you have been using and not AI Focus which is a very different process and was/is something very few have found usefull or trustworthy!
 
So I tried the tests and moved the focus point to the one above the centre and it seems to have got better. Works better at F8 @200mm that seems to be the sweet spot. I have registered the lens on the Sigma site so I'm going to email them today with the photos and see if they will have a look at it under warranty. I had a look back at some of the photos and seems a few are soft in the middle area but a lot are pretty decent. Could it be when I zoom in on the LCD that it's blurry because of the resolution? Thanks again to everyone who gave advice and tips. Really appreciate it all and happy shooting :)
 
You finding 200mm the best range does not surprise me - it sounds very similar to my copy. I always put it down as the limitation of a reasonably priced lens but will be interested in what Sigma have to say. Hopefully for you they'll be able to meet your expectations.
 
Yeah 200mm brings out sharper photos than 300mm which disappoints me as the reason I got the lens was to reach the full length so I don't scare anything I shooting. Anyway I shall keep you updated as to what Sigma say.
 
Ch1Ck3n TiM3 said:
Yeah 200mm brings out sharper photos than 300mm which disappoints me as the reason I got the lens was to reach the full length so I don't scare anything I shooting. Anyway I shall keep you updated as to what Sigma say.
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I had the same lens many years ago, not the fastest focusing if the bird moves at all.
Most cheaper zooms don't do well at full stretch, you may have to settle at 250 max.
 
Most long zooms, especially the cheaper ones, decline in sharpness at their longest focal length. It's not uncommon to find that there is no more detail available at the longest end than you can get from shooting at a shorter sharper focal length and cropping down. So what's the point of a 70-300mm with no more detail at 300mm than 200mm? Why not just make it a 70-200mm?

Because they wouldn't be able to sell as many :)
 
Did you try it in One Shot AF not the AI Servo you said you were using?
 
Yeah I did it made a slight difference but until I compare on light room I won't know 100%
 
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