New A3+ printer: Canon vs Epson vs going used and abused large format?

LongLensPhotography

LongLensPhotography

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LongLensPhotography
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To set the scene the printer would be helpful to do some smaller prints (A4 to A3+) for sale and also for some occasional marketing brochures printed in prohibitively small number. I've done some quick research and professional printers pretty much ask you to do 1000-2000min or else you pay near enough the same. I may have missed something though.
Typically I print rich colourful landscapes on fine art papers, but occasional portrait should be also expected.
The problem is that I often need to go to A2 or A1 so A3 would be only a partial and very limited solution.

The contenders:
1. Canon Pro 10S.
£350 at the show. Good prints, extra ink cartridges - do I need it???! Negatives are no roll feed and small cartridges. But maybe there are hacks?!

2. Canon Pro 100S.
£260. Similar as above except it needs less cartridges. Prints looked almost indistinguishable except 1% less depth in oranges and reds. Is the price saving worth it or not?

3. Epson P600.
£430. It's getting quite a bit more expensive for just an A3. Prints look great and there is roll feed. But on the other hand switching between matte and glossy is a very wasteful and expensive process.

4. Beaten up or even broken Canon 8300 / 8400 from fleabay. The format size is excellent for me just would I set up myself for some horrible expense and headache getting it back up and running and refilling all the ink? Sadly I can't quite afford new Canon 2000 / 4000 today.
 
For me it would be the 10S for the pigment inks... AFAIK no hacks for the roll feed and smaller carts. Other things to consider though.... the printable length is hardwired so limiting if you do ever print panoramas. plus for some media like third party fine art papers there is a wide margin (30mm I believe), however one can circumvent that one.

The 100S though is very good but with the same limitations as the 10S, I still run one alongside a Pro 1000...
 
PhilH04 said:
for some media like third party fine art papers there is a wide margin (30mm I believe), however one can circumvent that one.
Click to expand...

Could clarify that please. It would be a dealbreaker unless the border is less than <<1cm. I.e. I need full A3 prints no less. Epson I believe doesn't have this issue.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Could clarify that please. It would be a dealbreaker unless the border is less than <<1cm. I.e. I need full A3 prints no less. Epson I believe doesn't have this issue.
Click to expand...
It is simply that for certain media selected in the driver a margin of 30mm is imposed, it is my understanding that it is to allow the rollers to grab the paper properly. It can be circumvented by choosing a different media type, usually Matte paper instead of Fine Art paper.
 
Very much comes down to media handling. I believe that the Canons still cannot print borderless on some types of paper (maybe all, almost certainly fine art types). The Espon can print borderless on all papers. The Epson also has the option of printing onto roll media. There are reports of earlier Epsons getting blocked heads (more so than Canon) - I've had mine a good number of years and whilst I sometimes need to run a cleaning cycle, so far the head hasn't blocked. I got the Epson over the Canon because of the paper handling. I think the p600 will use a fair bit of black ink if you change between photo black and matte black, i.e. if changing between glossy/lustre paper and matt paper, so it is very much pros and cons. Fairly sure the Canon has separate ink channels.

One thing is that no matter which of the A3 printers you decide on, the output quality is very, very good.
 
I'm starting to lean towards Epson. P400 is a very interesting one with different ink set - an extra orange and red - could be good for my landscapes but is it too vivid for the rest? And no grey option means BW will be not as good. Then there is P800 which I'd really want for A2 size.

I have to say Canon marketing department is so good at removing features from their lesser products that you either buy top of the line (PRO-2000 / 5Ds R / 1 Dx II) or go straight to competitors.

edit: I pretty much can't see any proper 13" fine art paper rolls, so it is sheets only anyway. So in real life Canon 10S is not so disadvantaged if the border gap can be made to go away. But it makes 17" (A2) that much more desirable.
 
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If you "often" need to go A1 or A2, then you'll be farming out a lot of your work if you buy an A3 printer. If you're commercially supplying prints you then need to make sure your printer and your... printer (the people who do your printing!) are outputting the same looking images. You need to ask yourself whether this "partial solution" is acceptable. If it is - A3 printing is a good start to having control over your work from capture to finished product.

In terms of second hand, the bigger "industrial" printers I think are actually pretty good value if you get one that's been looked after. My Epson was used briefly by a printer friend. it then sat in his factory for 6 months before he passed it on to me. One nozzle check and I was away. The Epson 4800 can be had for as little as £100-500 on that auction site. Prices vary because it absolutely won't ship. It's a 2 man lift :) If I had the floor space, I'd take a punt on something bigger just because of how awesome it is to see a big print roll off the printer. Also - the bigger you go, the more cost effective the ink.

Either way - I think you need to make a decision on what paper size you want to print to. You can then narrow things down a bit.
 
I've gone a little crazy and bought a problematic Canon 8400s from ebay for not much money. It has "Tracking belt fault" so whatever that means? I could buy another printer with different fault and make a good one. There is a cheap 8300S without any ink or head.

If it comes to the worst I should have at least two good print heads and five tanks with at least half the ink to put to another bargain basement purchase. I will be picking up on Friday so we will see. Hopefully it will just fit into Passat estate.

I probably should have bought a non-S model for 12 ink system. I could probably put the good bits towards that if a right one comes along? Or is 8 ink just fine and just means less ink expense?
 
Update looks like I won't be getting 8000 series after all - I couldn't get it in through the doors! So that leaves with 24" 6300 / 6400 option at best to try again; don't see much point to get even smaller one (17" is not 18" so a waste for 12x18 roll prints).

I only wonder if it is worth it to prise the printheads and the ink out of 8400s or does the common sense says buy new heads whatever the cost?
 
LongLensPhotography said:
I only wonder if it is worth it to prise the printheads and the ink out of 8400s or does the common sense says buy new heads whatever the cost?
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Last time I looked at the price of replacement print heads (for Epson) they were extremely expensive, if the heads are functioning I'd be tempted to keep them - assuming they fit the intended printer(s).
 
PaulButler said:
Last time I looked at the price of replacement print heads (for Epson) they were extremely expensive, if the heads are functioning I'd be tempted to keep them - assuming they fit the intended printer(s).
Click to expand...

Canon PF-05 is 2 X £300 with 12 month warranty. Sometimes you only need to replace one. With Epson I heard it is far more severe.

I guess it is a lottery buying old print heads at £100. It may work or end up a waste of time. Also they would be going from *8 ink to 12 ink printer which may or may not be problem. They would need to be purged somehow for storage even if it is just 2-3 weeks. They might not even let me take bits and leave the heavy scaffold so I may need to play a naughty ebay guy this time :(
 
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Update: yesterday I brought back a Canon ipf6300 bought for a nominal fee. It's got most of the ink, heads may or may not still work after standing 2 months and there is the dreaded "Close upper cover" error on boot up. I checked the sensor and it is fine. (It's going from 2.5 to 3.3V on switching). Main PCB fuses are fine too which I suspect it all points to some fried main PCM component. Also there are lots of are in the ink lines but this is hopefully easier to deal with.

So I am on the lookout for a second 6300 with working main PCB and power supply, and ideally maintenance cartridge (- these things can fry main PCB so better play safe). I have no idea if 6400 may be compatible for any of the parts, particularly if I transplanted good 6300 bits into it.

I intend it to be a 100% DIY project, and if all fails there is a recycling centre just 5 miles away and I've lost almost nothing. Then I could look into Epson 7900 as an alternative.
 
The joy of doing something yourself is worth it. I've managed to do rear brakes on my passat B6 a couple of days ago just because I felt like it. I must be going through a weird phase in my life.
 
Update. I am pretty much in a deadend with two 6300 printers both down with "Close upper cover" and I strongly suspect that's bye bye to the main PCB. Second one looked somewhat more promising at first, just misbehaving in different ways, then one head literally fried at the nozzles, head tray won't retract, HW error 2F27 and then that upper cover error again.
I think I will be organising 2 trips to my local landfill this weekend. Not sure if there are any bits worth keeping, except the cartridges.

So I have a lot of Canon 6X00 series ink - nearly 2 full sets, but I feel the printers are so s*** that even if I get one working they are just a liability and too prone to failure. It doesn't mean the newer pro-2000 are just as bad, but it really puts you off from Canon printers for sure (also they use new type of ink).

I think I will be looking at Epson A2 range soon unless I can resolve the upper cover errors. Any suggestion are most welcome at this stage.
 
Get the Epson scp800... I’ve had one for a couple of years and it’s brilliant. The reknowned Epson head problems all seem to have disappeared, fantastic B&W. Ink change over isn’t that bad as long as you plan your printing, it would be silly changing from satin/gloss to matte willy nilly. To be honest I hardly ever use the matte. I know there is a lot of talk about using non Epson inks but once you have got the hang of the printer and paper profiling there is very little/no waste so that is a descision only you can make but I can give the printer a glowing recommendation
 
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