Raymond Lin said:Was in PC World or Currys getting a SatNav or something and some woman can't even buy the correct ink cartridge for her printer. What make you think the average joe can build a PC. Most people get scared when an electronic component is opened. Plus you forgot aspects such as:
1 - research, knowing what socket to match what motherboard. We are not born with this knowledge, it takes research and reading and constant update of knowing what is out there, what is going to come out and what is going to be obsolete. Buying an AMD CPU for an Intel motherboard is never going to work is it? But who knew? A lot of people don't even know you can't put Canon lenses on Nikon and vice versa. (lets not going into the adaptor ring debate).
2 - Even if someone online spec you the complete computer, with cables and stuff so you have every part. Little things like de-static yourself, knowing the steps to put it together is not the same for every case and every computer.
3 - Then there is the software, which is a whole other kettle of fish. Loads of people can't even keep a working, virus free machines. What make you think they can install windows?
I can map it
That's because you are a geek at heart
1 - if you're considering a self build then yes a certain degree of reading will be involved, but then you'd need to be researching what mac/pre build you want anyway. How are you going to know whether that nice shiney apple paperweight will run your copy of "Bobs editing suite 7.2"? But otherwise socket types, memory types blah blah blah are all clearly labelled on motherboards/components. If you're that worried then buy a bundle which will give you a motherboard, CPU and memory combo that will work together.
2 - There are loads of guides, forums, videos and other assistance available for the first timer. Oh and a little secret, I've never used a static strap in 15 odd years. As long as you're not running around in nylon socks on your carpet you'll be fine.
3 - Insert DVD, press any key to continue. Follow prompts. :shrug:
4 - There are much nicer keyboards in a windows format for much less money
5 - No, I mean faffing around with issues in a business environment.
I have people with PCs and Macs asking me to fix their network. They can't get the one talking to the other. They should have just stuck with PCs and then it would have been easy
Although you have confirmed what the other guy has posted earlier and confirm it is closer to 25%.)
You've got a long wait from me - your "rules" make it impossibleAndy, still waiting for that £900 i7 rig with a 10bit 2550x1440 IPS screen.
) keyboard than the Apple one (Filco mechanical)
You've got a long wait from me - your "rules" make it impossible
For example, I would never build a system with a 2550x1440 screen - I'd prefer 2 smaller screens. And I wouldn't ever spec a 680/680M graphics processor - I never use that sort of horsepower. And as for the Apple mouse.... every time I've used one I've found it incredibly awkward as my hands are very much larger than normal peoples, so I think the mouse is an expensive paper weight and prefer an Optical Intellimouse. I do however have a better (i.e. more expensive - because, after all, cost=quality
So, basically, OS aside, I would never build an iMac equivalent anyway as I think it is incorrectly spec'd to do what I want to do. Now if you asked to build a properly spec'd machine that is as powerful as an iMac....
My rule was equivalent processing, not the same. I can build something which processes images quicker and has more display space (I'd use 2 24" monitors) for around half the price. It won't be the same spec., and may not have features you keep saying must be included (I wouldn't spec Thunderbolt or Wifi or a 680 for example) but it would be quicker - and silent (save HDD mechanical noise)You set the rules when you made it a fact that you can
but then you'd just tell me it was missing some feature so it wasn't equivalent so it's a pretty pointless exercise.
This depends how you define spec.
Is the spec. the hardware spec. or the performance spec.? I.e. do you define the machine spec. as "I want to be able to process RAW files from a D800 in a reasonable amount of time on a quality screen" or is it "I want a 27" 2560x1440 display and an i7-3770 processor"? Most people only care about the first, but if you care about the second, then just you might as well go and buy an iMac as you'll probably even find a reason the lack of DVD drive is an advantage....Actually, the underlying components would be the same (or probably better - I'd probably use a better PSU than Apple for example). There is only one company you can get ix processors from for example (and I'd probably spec. the ix-3x70K and overclock it as that's pretty easy on the latest processors and is either cheaper than the non-K part [i5] or a £20 adder for the i7). I just wouldn't be charging an arm and a leg for them (for example the i7-3770 is a £160 upgrade option from Apple, the difference in price between it and an i5-3570 (which is in the base spec 3.2GHz iMac) is £53 retail).
).
No. It shows that Apple buy in bulk and have access to significantly lower prices than you or I have and still charge a lot. What is amazing is that even though Apple have a huge advantage in prices, you can still build pretty much the same for 75% and you can build better, just with different priorities for significantly less (let's call that 50%).
I'm not.
I'm not.
I'm criticising people for paying so much for so little real value.
But that's just my opinion
Yup. That's bad value, but one that should have cost you nothing (if it isn't fit for purpose, it should be refunded - if it wasn't, I'd have got Trading Standards involved).
I still haven't had to replace any PC I've built or bought over the years, from a variety of manufacturers, or built myself. The only time they get replaced is when something better comes out (and some have been reused as fileservers/media PCs). The only problems I've had over the years have been under-spec'd power supplies (my own fault - I over spec these now) and HDDs (I think I had 15 or so in operation here at last count - so I must see failure averages kick in at some time). So, you have to ask yourself, was the fact you got 4 years great life with your Mac Pro down to the fact that you paid more for it or simply the luck of the draw?
Only if you value footprint. I don't particularly. So?
I would spec. a completely silent (i.e. NO fans at all PC).
I'd have 2 monitors instead of 1. I don't want a single 27" monitor. It is too restrictive.
Well... I would never spec. that graphics card for anything I built as it is overkill.
No. No need for them. I'd rather put the money into better infrastructure.
Oooh.... I have some £3 ones here... do they count?
And the money saved could be saved... So?
Yup. It's down to what people will pay.
Sell an old PC? Why would you do that? It's more infrastructure - and since it doesn't incorporate a 27" screen, I can actually place it where I want it.
Well... the graphic card isn't £400 as it's the M processor which has half the memory bandwidth of it's desktop cousin. You can't actually buy a card based on the 680M processor - so I couldn't even if I wanted to. And my spec on the original post somewhere included a £550 Dell U2711 and I was still 33% cheaper than the base iMac.... But don't let that deter you from saying I didn't include it...
And my spec on the original post somewhere included a £550 Dell U2711 and I was still 33% cheaper than the base iMac.... But don't let that deter you from saying I didn't include it...
I can do it, I just CBA
You've got a long wait from me - your "rules" make it impossible
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=5221660#post5221660
and it is fun to play
No, this is very true, it's just you don't see people buying the high-end Windows pre-builds - that's more a corporate thing.
The problem isn't buying a Mac, the problem is believing it is somehow superior to other products. It isn't and OSX is downright backward in places if you want to interface it to anything non-Apple. BTW: I have the same dislike with Linux as a desktop for exactly the same reason (although that is at least sensible when it comes to networking and sharing).
No, this is very true, it's just you don't see people buying the high-end Windows pre-builds - that's more a corporate thing.
The problem isn't buying a Mac, the problem is believing it is somehow superior to other products. It isn't and OSX is downright backward in places if you want to interface it to anything non-Apple. BTW: I have the same dislike with Linux as a desktop for exactly the same reason (although that is at least sensible when it comes to networking and sharing).
That and purchasing one seems to turn some people into religious zealots overnight. As an atheist, I will stand and argue for fun with Jehovahs Witnesses who come round to my door if I'm in the mood... Pointing out the errors of religious ways is just in my nature
I run more Linux systems here than Windows
Try browsing a Windows network from a stock iPad.....
But don't you see... I'm right
If you read the OP, that was against the £1500 iMac which is the same spec as the parts linked. Add £70 for a 128G SSD, another £50 for i7 (if you think it's worth it, I'd prefer an overclocked i5 - there really isn't much in it for most apps - even video encoding it's only 10% clock for clock) and another £130 for silent PSU and heatsink and you're shy of £1300. The equivalent 8G iMac with i7, 1TB fusion and 680MX and it came to £2179. Even with a £400 graphics card (actually, it's £350), the self build with top quality components would come in at ~£1500 which is a good £600 cheaper...
