New to film

Eighth Avenue

Eighth Avenue

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Iain
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Hi,

first time on this part of the forum as I got into photography on the digital side of the market and currently own digital cameras. I came across some batteries tonight and wondered if they would fit my granddads Canon EOS 600 - to my joy they do (after spending 20 mins trying to find the battery compartment :D)

I would love to have a go with a 35mm camera but there are a couple of things I am not used to. Firstly I had no idea that you could adjust the ISO on older cameras and (no doubt naively) thought that it was only dictated by the film you used. How do these tie together, I take it using 1600 ISO on the camera with 100 ISO film would make the shot look awful but with 1600 ISO film (if possible) would make it look ok?

Really keen to master this as this camera was the whole reason I bought Canon rather than any other when I got my first 400D (to steal the zoom lens he had), I imagine it would make me appreciate digital a lot more and improve my technique massively. I also want to do it as my granddad died when I was 11 and I had no clue up until recently that he was actually a very keen photographer, I'd love to learn more about film using his camera.

Any general tips to avoid mistakes that a noob to 35mm would make would also be very much appreciated

Iain
 
On my Centon SLR you pull the shutter dial up, and then twist it to change the ISO. I've always shot with the camera ISO identical to the film ISO, that way you get a pretty perfectly metered exposure; the good thing about film is, it has plenty of leeway, so you can shoot on higher or lower ISO's (camera settings) if you want, to get the image slightly under or over exposed. I've used this for some cool effects before, and also to add a little contrast on some very grey film.
Enjoy using film, you will love it :D
 
Most SLR cameras after 1990 read the film's ISO automatically. 100 ISO or less = slow film for good light or a tripod, 100 - 200 ISO medium speed film for general shooting in daylight, 400+ ISO fast film for duller conditions, higher shutter speeds or smaller apertures. Every time you double or half the ISO is the equivalent to one f-stop or shutter speed setting, i.e. 400 ISO film shot at 200 ISO is one stop over-exposed, 100 ISO film shot at 200 ISO is one stop under-exposed.

My advice would be leave the camera on auto exposure mode and shoot a couple of rolls and take things from there.
 
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Oh also film is extremely forgiving when it comes to over and under exposing, usually the lab will automatically correct under/over exposed frames for you during development.
 
colpepper said:
Most SLR cameras after 1990 read the film's ISO automatically. 100 ISO or less = slow film for good light or a tripod, 100 - 200 ISO medium speed film for general shooting in daylight, 400+ ISO fast film for duller conditions, higher shutter speeds or smaller apertures.

My advice would be leave the camera on auto exposure mode and shoot a couple of rolls and take things from there.
Click to expand...

Just to add on colpeppers post,
If your camera is an automatic, it reads the ISO from the little barcode strip on the film, and sets the ISO in camera automatically :)
 
Ah, so rather than adding noise etc it will over or under expose the image? Makes sense. Am I right to assume that the every day film people use would be around 400 ISO?

Really looking forward to getting stuck in! Can my camera take FD lenses? Just had a look on ebay for them and am gobsmacked at how cheap they are!
 
Eighth Avenue said:
Am I right to assume that the every day film people use would be around 400 ISO?
Click to expand...

400 ISO would give you all the depth of field of focus (small aperture) and faster shutter speed (avoiding camera shake) you'll need. A little more grain than slower films but who's counting? 400 is as good a place to start as any.
 
Eighth Avenue said:
400 it is then :)

can you still buy film on the high street or is it mainly on the net. We have a max speilman round the corner from work, will pop in if they have it :D
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Both. The net is usually cheaper, sometimes much. OTOH Boots sometimes do deals on overstocks. Poundland sell Kodak 200 ISO colour print for a quid a roll. Black and white is a doddle to process in a cheap tank (ebay) and 30-50p a pop for chemistry.
 
Unfortunately your EOS won't take FD lenses, which are manual focus. I agree they're cheap and excellent and the bodies to take them, FTb - A-Series - T-series, also very reasonable.
 
The eos 600 will automatically set ISO to match the film you load, if you get DX coded film (most of it is, don't worry about it) You CAN alter the ISO down by 1 stop (say 200 from 400 as coded) or up by up to 2 stops (say to 1600 from 400 as coded) provided you have a film processing company that know how to pull or push process the film. The important part is that once you've set the ISO, it's set for the duration of the film - no bumping the ISO because you've gone into a darkened church for a couple of shots, then putting it back when you come out.

In case you haven't got the manual for the eos600 theres a downloadable one here (it's for the 630V - american spec version but functionally identical)

The EOS will work with FD lenses with an adaptor, but obviously, theres no electrical or mechanical connection, so you'll need to change the aperture yourself, stopping down to meter, and it's not ideal. It'll work happily with any of the Canon EF lenses though, so it's a perfect excuse to go out and buy some more L glass :LOL:
 
Boots also do some good deals like 3 for 2 on fuji 200, and they sells packs of 5x fuji 200 too (at my local anyways), i have only found film cheaper online if you buy in bulks of 10, you save around £2 in total after postage, don't know if thats a lot to you, but for me its every penny that counts Lol. Your local Max Spielman will have a great range of films, and you'll only find them about 20-40p dearer than online ones.
You are right about the ISO, it just fools the exposure meter, nothing else, once you have picked an ISO, you're stuck with it :p
I usually use 200 or 400 ISO, and the grain is hardly noticable so i wouldn't worry about it, besides it gives it that natural filmy look :)
 
Oh and for the record, i've found Black and white film a lot more forgiving than film, as far as ISO is concerned.
A little birdy also told me that Fuji is much better than the Kodak film, so try about both by all means, but apparently Fuji is the way to go for local films :)
 
Actually considering taking the camera with me now to play on my dinner break. The hardest thing for me is going to be not knowing what the shots look like until they're developed. I'm paranoid enough that the LCD screen isn't accurate enough on the back of the camera sometimes so take extra shots, god only knows what I'm going to be like if I can't see it at all.

How much does development cost nowadays?
 
Eighth Avenue said:
Actually considering taking the camera with me now to play on my dinner break. The hardest thing for me is going to be not knowing what the shots look like until they're developed. I'm paranoid enough that the LCD screen isn't accurate enough on the back of the camera sometimes so take extra shots, god only knows what I'm going to be like if I can't see it at all.

How much does development cost nowadays?
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Lol thats what i was like at first, you just have to make sure that the first shot is the best shot, you don't really get a second chance with film :p You can always take several shots, but its best just to take one and walk away. Trust me it is very satisfying to wait for your prints and take them from the store and see them for the first time in your hands.
For a 200ISO 24exposures, developing is around £4-5, and i think i get one set of 6x4 prints for free, from my local Kodak shop.
 
A lot of the people on here seem to process their own black and white (me included!) which is around £40 set up costs and another £30 or so for the chemicals which will do at least 60 rolls of B&W film.

Alternatively, there's a guy who's doing a special TP price on mail-order develop and scan.
 
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Wow! that's going to be expensive, I'm going to have to limit myself to 2-3 rolls per month :(

Also, i know the film is sensitive to light, do I have to be careful when loading, i.e. be in darker conditions or stick a tea towel over my head and camera? :D Only ever used APS :confused:
 
Apart from the Special Infra-Red film that is really, really sensitive to light, it's fine to load film into the camera in subdued light - no need for a loading bag or any of that stuff.
 
Eighth Avenue said:
Wow! that's going to be expensive, I'm going to have to limit myself to 2-3 rolls per month :(
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B&W is actually pretty cheap per film once you've bought the tank, thermometer and spirals. The most economical way of shooting colour is hunt the bargain bins and have a supermarket process it. Or looked at another way, you could buy a film camera, all the kit and (depending how much you shoot) a few years worth of film and development for the price of a DSLR. And your equipment is unlikely to worth a penny less than you paid for it after that time.
 
Its actually killed my wallet off getting all my films developed, i also had to do 6 A4 prints for my college workbook, cost me £40 to get those 6 printed... and it was done by a machine, on machine quality paper... definitely cheaper in the long run to develop them yourself, also you are bound to feel damn good with yourself, seeing your prints come to life before your eyes.
I am going to be developing my own B&W film in 2 weeks for my college course, i can't wait!! :D
 
Recently gotten into film also, initial cost for equipment can be steep if you throw in a negative scanner but its a one off investment. The chemical can be reused if you use it correctly and it's very cheap for the amount of rolls it can develop before being exhausted
 
It's Fuji Acros 100 or Neopan 400 under a different wrapper, so the 100 is a lovely smooth fine grained film, the 400 is a bit less grainey than Hp5+ - maybe similar to Delta 400. I highly recommend it to be honest.
 
mcc49 said:
Recently gotten into film also, initial cost for equipment can be steep if you throw in a negative scanner but its a one off investment. The chemical can be reused if you use it correctly and it's very cheap for the amount of rolls it can develop before being exhausted
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For domestic use, re-use the stop bath and fix, but use developer as a one-shot and dispose - if you're concerned about economy, get hold of a bottle of Rodinal - that one bottle will do something like 80 35mm films in the standard patterson tank @ 300ml of dev. per roll.
 
just had a 'quick' read through this ... anyone mention a film changing bag , to be added to the list ?
 
Tricky69 said:
just had a 'quick' read through this ... anyone mention a film changing bag , to be added to the list ?
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Nice to have if you're going to develop your own film - it's certainly easier than making somewhere light-tight in the house - though I've heard of people climbing into wardrobes, under stair cupboards or into the loft to do it...

Unless you're loading IR film, or plate film into 5x4" and the like, they're not really essential for loading cameras though :shrug:
 
I was thinking for loading the spirals .... much easier.

Although, before I got mine, I used the bedroom - light off , under quilt ! (yes - for the film loading :LOL: )


is it 'really' a no no to re-use DEV ?

I hear of people re-using it, but altering the times, the more it is used ?


What about Colour film in B&W chemicals ??? again, I hear it is done - what are the results ? can you print from it, or do you need to scan ?

I have used coffee to develop colour film, which works and gives a 'unique' look to it, but the neg is too dense to print from - scan only
 
Tricky69 said:
is it 'really' a no no to re-use DEV ?

I hear of people re-using it, but altering the times, the more it is used ?
Click to expand...

Well - most of the ilford liquid developers have a shelf life of around 24 hours when mixed up, so they're not ideal. If you're using something like ID-11 which was really intended for big dip and dunk tanks and use at stock solution concentration in commercial applications, then provided you have some way of checking on the depletion level of the developer, its okay, at a push. But, really, in all honesty, £18.50 posted worth of rodinal will make up 25 litres of developer - at 300ml a roll for 35 film, that's 83 films - or 22p a roll - is that too much to pay for a roll of film developing ?
 
TheBigYin said:
Well - most of the ilford liquid developers have a shelf life of around 24 hours when mixed up, so they're not ideal. If you're using something like ID-11 which was really intended for big dip and dunk tanks and use at stock solution concentration in commercial applications, then provided you have some way of checking on the depletion level of the developer, its okay, at a push. But, really, in all honesty, £18.50 posted worth of rodinal will make up 25 litres of developer - at 300ml a roll for 35 film, that's 83 films - or 22p a roll - is that too much to pay for a roll of film developing ?
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no, it's not a lot ... but if it can be re-used, it's even less :D

I was more thinking about saving them up and developing several negs at once , rather than putting it back in the bottle for next week/month - or whenever.

as it's all newish to me, I just like to know everything there is to know ! :)
 
well - for the 22p a shot it costs, I'd sooner not stuff up a film by under-developing it and waste the £2 of the film, plus the travelling costs of a re-shoot. Maybe i'm just not pikey enough :shrug:
 
:eek:
 
Just re-read the instructions on the ID-11

if gives the adjustment times for re-use of the dev, up to a max of 10 films.

So I guess shelf life would be the one to watch . Although , I've just used some I mixed a few months ago - used half, and kept the other half in a Jar. Not hidden from light either. It developed a roll of FujiColour ok.

So I shall experiment, and keep notes.
 
ID-11's okay to re-use, provided you're working with stock solution. If you're going to work like that, best way is to buy a 5L pack of it, make it all up, and just decant the 300ml for a 35mm film, process the film, and return the 300ml to stock. You'll get the first 5 films at standard time that way, then the next 5 at +10% time, and so on up to around 50 films, by which time the ID-11 would be depleted. You would have to be shooting a lot of film to get through 50 rolls before the stock solution expires though!

i'd leave the last word to Ilford on this though...

Reusing stock developer solutions can make more
economical use of them but it is not without its
drawbacks particularly when small volumes are
being used. More inconsistencies will be seen by
reusing a developer than by using a fresh
developer solution on each occasion. The time
compensation can only be an approximation to
cover a range of circumstances such as film and
negative types, solution losses and its age, etc.
For example, if your negatives are night shots
which will be relatively clear when developed then
little of the developing agents will have been used
in processing them. At the other extreme if the
negatives are well blackened after development
because they are of beach scenes in bright
sunlight then more developing agent will have
been used.


Overall reusing developer lowers image quality
slightly and increases the risk of physical damage.
As the developer oxidises with reuse and storage,
the risk of contamination is increased, precipitates
may be formed and tiny particles of emulsion from
the films processed previously may be held in
suspension. In addition there is also a risk of miss
counting the number of films that have been
processed by a batch of developer.


“One-shot” processing using stock or 1+1 or 1+3
developers eliminates or greatly reduces these
problems. One–shot processing is recommended
when image quality, reliability and consistancy are
more important than economy.


We do not recommend reusing diluted developers,
1+1 and 1+3, always use fresh solutions on each
occasion.
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Thanks for the added info TBY

At the moment, I am just 'playing' / experimenting with film and darkroom stuff, so economy is really a 1st thought.

I have just come to the conclusion that my cheap agfa film scaner at £25 posted, isn't really up to the job I now want it to do.

I originaly bought it with a mind of just 'proofing' the negs, making it easier to choose which ones I will print.

oh well ... money not wisely spent that time ! had seen some good comments too on various forums :|

so ... saving for new film scanner

always saving for the next lens

economy is needed in some circumstances, but I know , at other times, quality will be more important.

I've just bought a 5L kit of ID-11

Maybe I'll mix it up, and keep the used stuff separate, so if I need some 'fresh' stock, I'll have it . and for 'playing' I'll re-use the used stuff.

not that urgent now though, as I need a scanner to make it all worthwhile :crying:


need to find my eos to nikon adapter for my slide film duplicator, and see if that works for digitizing my negs. it was ok for B&W on my 450d, except for the crop factor. Now I have the 5DII, I am hoping I can get a full 35mm digitized with no crop.

Still struggle with the colour mask on colour stuff though !

it's all learning :)
 
Since there's a thread for this and I don't know anything about developing film, I might as well ask some questions too..

Can a b+w film be developed without a dark room?
What's the difference between Rodinol and ID-11?
What are all the chemicals needed to develop a roll of b+w?
Could you briefly outline the process of developing a roll of film? (include everything you do)
 
ok . from my newbie point of view

yes, you can develop without a dark room


ID-11 or Rodinol is fine (I have only used ID-11 though

you will need at least a Fixer too, and maybe a stop bath, although water may do for starters (that's what I did)
You will need to get the film onto a spool/spiral and into the dev tank in complete darkness. They make bags for this. you put everything in the bag and zip it up. then there are arm holes for you to put your hands/arms in and take the filme and load it into the tank by feel.

Then you can take the tank out of the bag, and develop in daylight. adding and changing the chamicals

Dev 1st . add and agitate for aroung 8 mins

then rinse / stop ... to stop development. this just means you empty the tank and 'flush' it out.

then fix - the empty the tank (turn it upside down) and add the fix mix for 5 ish mins
then rinse

then you can open the dev tank and hang the roll of film up to dry

job done :)
 
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