Nikon Df....First images

magicaxeman said:
I dont think its fair to compare it to the Sony A7/7R as they just dont have the lens range to go with their new bodies, in fact I think its just the kit lens so far and thats it until next year and even then their lens map is quite limited, especially in the pro/fast glass range.

The Nikon has the whole Nikon range that it can use.

Love the styling, just what I've always wanted and I've been banging on about wanting a physical ISO dial for ages, but its to heavy for me and of course just a lottery dream at that price.
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It's perfectly fair - when it first hit the rumour mill it was accompanied with words like "Hybrid" which instantly makes you wonder whether they were going to bring out something A7 like. That's exactly why I held off ordering a Sony because I have Nikon glass and if it was a suitable Full frame route I'd pribably have gone for it. However, it turns out to be Nikons idea of Hybrid is to doll up a mahoosive DSLR with Yet more buttons and dials rather than actually do what we all wanted them to and bring out something a lot more retro is size and function. Now that's not what the Sony set out to do, but it happened as a side effect. With that you get something that is trying to be a Full frame NEX that just happens to have ended up the same shape, size and weight as a proper old SLR.

I don't think Nikon is intending this as competition for the Sony, I see it more as trying to better Fuji by going for retro styling but on a DSLR rather than rangefinder platform. Now that we've seen it it's quite obvious that different people will by buying DF and A7s.
 
Strappy said:
I'm surprised at that, they've had a D800e on the shelf before and that's similarly restricted (apparently). And there's no way I'd spend nearly £3k on a camera without getting it out of the box in the shop!
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I went into local LCE to do the same,they told me it was Nikon they are no longer supplying cameras for customer to look at,and people coming in to buy such cameras don't want to buy an open boxes :)
 
magicaxeman said:
I dont think its fair to compare it to the Sony A7/7R as they just dont have the lens range to go with their new bodies, in fact I think its just the kit lens so far and thats it until next year and even then their lens map is quite limited, especially in the pro/fast glass range.

The Nikon has the whole Nikon range that it can use.
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I don't think it's fair to compare the Nikon and Sony cameras because one is a DSLR and the other is a CSC. Not everyone wants every Nikon lens ever made, and as long as the there are the lenses they want in the Sony range, the decision is which is the better camera for the individual. If it is the retro look you're after, the Sony is the more innovative and cheaper option if a CSC is a consideration.

With your logic Sony, or Olympus, or Pentax, or anyone not Canon or Nikon for that matter, will never be an option for anyone because there is not a massive range of lenses. :shrug: Not everyone wants/owns/uses a large range of lenses. Nice to have the options of course. ;) It could be said that those looking for the full retro experience may use little more than a 50mm lens. ;) :LOL:

As for the Nikon Df, that is a lot to pay for a retro look DSLR. :eek:
 
Incidentally we can use the US launch price to predict where the UK street price will end up. If it's $2749 (excl sales tax) over there, then it will eventually be about £2049 (incl VAT) here.

Remember, you read it here first.
 
IIRC though the D800 launched here for £2399, and in the US for $2999. Those prices equated nicely to each other from day 1?

Fair enough it's got the D4 sensor in it, but everything else teh Df offers, is this really a body that should place above the D800/E on Nikon's price range?
 
Price aside that thing's an eyesore! I'm all for having physical controls but that is going completely overboard IMHO.
 
I'm not really up on tech specs. Anyone got a view on how this Df is likely to compare with a D3?

Could the Df give D4 IQ for nearly £2k less? If so, apart from video, what are you missing?
 
boyfalldown said:
you're still missing US sales tax, which retailers over there quote without....not the same agreed, but a hell of a lot closer then made out
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True but I thought Americans were still avoiding their local sales tax on internet purchases or did they finally fix that?
 
BBR said:
I'm not really up on tech specs. Anyone got a view on how this Df is likely to compare with a D3?

Could the Df give D4 IQ for nearly £2k less? If so, apart from video, what are you missing?
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In some way,the guts of the 610,the body of Nikon FA and the sensor from the D4 :)
 
How long before Kodak do an update of the box brownie. l:D
the Nikon does look fantastic,
 
BBR said:
Anyone got a view on how this Df is likely to compare with a D3?
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Going purely off the spec alone, it's likely going to have worse AF (D600 system) but a sensor with higher resolution and better low light performance.
 
Purely as an emotional response, I think this is possibly the best DSLR ever created. I loved the new Sony RX10 for the retro vibe it was giving off, but the Df looks positively amazing, like something straight off the back page of Nat Geographic from 1982.

If it were a hell of a lot cheaper - say £1000 - then I'd be inclined to buy one right now but at the launch price it's way out of reach. But I can see people lapping it up even at over £2,000....
 
It's got a D4 sensor; it was never going to be anywhere near £1,000
 
Love the design, was hoping for a split prism manual focusing screen.....but that price seems a tad high. A bit close to £2k would have been ideal however as with all Nikons recently that price will drop and can get to that £2k price in a few months........:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
specialman said:
Purely as an emotional response, I think this is possibly the best DSLR ever created. I loved the new Sony RX10 for the retro vibe it was giving off, but the Df looks positively amazing, like something straight off the back page of Nat Geographic from 1982.

If it were a hell of a lot cheaper - say £1000 - then I'd be inclined to buy one right now but at the launch price it's way out of reach. But I can see people lapping it up even at over £2,000....
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THIS!! I love it [and no, have absolutely no desire for video, at all], and I actually like all those twiddly dials... but then, I learnt my film photography in the 80's, so maybe there is something in that. No way can I justify the cost until a D700 is due to be replaced, which isn't yet, but assuming it performs well on release, yes it would be on the list of options come that time.
 
Quite like the look of the body and like the idea of The dials to control the settings. May wait and see what happens with price just don't know if its going to be worth waiting for over a d600 or cannon 6d
 
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Yv said:
THIS!! I love it [and no, have absolutely no desire for video, at all], and I actually like all those twiddly dials... but then, I learnt my film photography in the 80's, so maybe there is something in that. No way can I justify the cost until a D700 is due to be replaced, which isn't yet, but assuming it performs well on release, yes it would be on the list of options come that time.
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Yeah I learn t my photography on cameras from the 80's to and I have no interest in video - but I still think this is a bit of an eyesore to be honest.
 
Alastair said:
Compared to the Sony A7/r it looks over-priced, but it is going to be better supported with AF OEM lenses at the point of release. I know the Sony can take A-mount via an adapter but the Nikon at least won't have the compromised ergonomics if having to work with or without an adapter for AF. Then again, the Sony is looking to be the best placed FF camera from any manufacturer for using legacy lenses - it's just the system conversion costs for anyone with Canon/Nikon set-ups that will be the barrier to entry to the Sony (not many will want to go MF only, and those Sony-Zeiss FE lenses aren't cheap). I suspect most buyers of the Nikon will already own most of the lenses that they'll need/want.
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Possibly just as well, since with the large (46.5mm) register distance of F mount, adapting lenses from just about any other 35mm system is impossible (without an optical element in the adapter at least). The A7's E mount is completely the opposite - at 18mm there isn't anything you cant use with it.

From the teasers, I had hoped for more, or rather less. Less is more.

Then again, Nikon are not a camera maker that I've ever thought of as purveyors of elegance.* Admirable tools, but rarely elegant.

There seems to have been an interesting concept which hasn't been followed through consistently - you can mount your Pre-AI lenses, but there's no split image finder to help you focus them manually.

It has a shutter speed dial, but you can effectively make it redundant and use the rear control dial.

They've supplied a 50mm kit lens (terribly trad) but it has no aperture ring!

I think I'm heading in the direction of the A7.


* perhaps as much or more in the sense of an elegant solution to a mathematical equation than self-conscious 'design'.
 
specialman said:
Purely as an emotional response, I think this is possibly the best DSLR ever created. I loved the new Sony RX10 for the retro vibe it was giving off, but the Df looks positively amazing, like something straight off the back page of Nat Geographic from 1982.

If it were a hell of a lot cheaper - say £1000 - then I'd be inclined to buy one right now but at the launch price it's way out of reach. But I can see people lapping it up even at over £2,000....
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Christmas is coming know anybody rich

;)
 
So I've woken and definitely just miffed about this camera (regardless of price, I was ok with it if the design was spot on). I posted a little transcript for fun on another forum and thought I share it here as well. It seems as if some people in Nikon Marketing had a conversation like this:

'ok we need to produce a retro camera - retro is all the rage. Look at Fuji, I thought they were dead!'

'True! Let's design it like one of our old film cameras!'

'Great idea! But, we can't just limit our market to the old film crowd, it has to be chic as well, and so needs to be easy enough for them to use.'

'You know if we say its made in Japan we can charge more as well! And as it's retro, lets not include video and make that an added feature!'

'Guys what about the specifications - after the whole D3/D700 debacle, we got to ensure this camera doesn't eat into the D800/D4 sales'

'Hmm, but we need to include a few interesting things. What about the sensor of the D4 - the D800 is too much hassle. And then as a compromise the AF of the D600?'

'Should we include AF? if this is retro should we not have manual focus?'

'Manual Focus is too much hassle, it must have AF. But we could make any Nikon lens compatible on this camera, that would be a cool feature.'

'And what do we charge for it? I hear Sony is coming out with a mirrorless Full Frame that will be cheap'

'Pfff, Sony and their cameras with no soul. This camera will have soul! That is worth more than a Sony!'

'You know, we should run a proper teaser campaign - this camera deserves it.'

Sadly I think camera companies are really run like this nowadays and who can blame them? Profit can't be easy in such a competitive market.
 
applemint said:
Thom Hogan's take:
http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/digital-confusion-with-the.html
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Thom Hogan is such a winge-bag. He tells us to have an emotional response to the DF rather than a rational one, and then goes on to rip it apart from a totally rational perspective.

I like the DF very much - and for mostly emotional reasons. I like knobs and dials, analogue controls, and mechanical operation (even if the dials are only electronic switches underneath). I enjoy the picture taking process, setting it up right, and it's not (for me) just about speed and efficiency. In the same way, I like cars with a manual gearbox - it adds another dimension to the pleasure of driving, even if modern dual-clutch 'boxes are better in every respect. I like mechanical/automatic watches, even though they're not as accurate as quartz. I've thought about getting a nice turntable to play all my old albums, even though I have them all on CD.

The DF is not merely fashionable retro, not a hark back to my first film cameras - though both those things are appealing too. It's just a nicer way of working.

Edit: shame there's no proper aperture ring though.
 
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HoppyUK said:
Thom Hogan is such a winge-bag. He tells us to have an emotional response to the DF rather than a rational one, and then goes on to rip it apart from a totally rational perspective.

I like the DF very much - and for mostly emotional reasons. I like knobs and dials, analogue controls, and mechanical operation (even if the dials are only electronic switches underneath). I enjoy the picture taking process, setting it up right, and it's not (for me) just about speed and efficiency. In the same way, I like cars with a manual gearbox - it adds another dimension to the pleasure of driving, even if modern dual-clutch 'boxes are better in every respect. I like mechanical/automatic watches, even though they're not as accurate as quartz. I've thought about getting a nice turntable to play all my old albums, even though I have them all on CD.

The DF is not merely fashionable retro, not a hark back to my first film cameras - though both those things are appealing too. It's just a nicer way of working.

Edit: shame there's no proper aperture ring though.
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Good post. I like the bit about "...it's just a nicer way of working."

People need to remember it seems to be a niche product so not all boxes are going to be ticked for everyone. It doesn't tick all of mine, but then I don't have the cash to drop on a D4.

It is slightly overpriced for me but it's definitely on my list. I can wait until Feb/March for a drop in price. After that, I'll see.

We've established it's Marmite, I have no problem with going Marmite. I can live with its looks, no problems there.

I'll just wait for now though.
 
I'd have one in a heartbeat. Can see it being a wedding photographers tool. 2of these for the price of a D4 (when prices stabilise). Fab low light, what's not to like ?
 
gramps said:
Limited AF quality? Single card slot?
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a general question. Is the AF really that bad on the d7100/d600/d610, cause for all the complaints I just don't see it. For sure its not the absolute best Nikon make, but its pretty far from unworkable and certainly blows what we had 5 or 6 years ago away. Same with the single card slot. How ever did we mange with those D700s, D300s etc etc

The more I think about this, the more I think whats not to like?
 
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Depends on your view of course, but in example quoted ... wedding photographer, I would have thought that a dual card slot would be very desirable, the fact that "we used to only have" is IMO not a reason to ignore what is now available. Similarly with the AF, the limited focus points is certainly a negative when compared with what is possible with the available technology and hence IMO what should be made available in 'latest' advances ... especially one touted as 'pure photography'.
The Df is launching at almost £1k above the cost of a D800, I'm not convinced that represents a quality advancement for the end user TBH.
 
I find this type of thing be something of an anachronistic curiosity if I'm going to be totally honest. I can see the attraction of such a thing, but I can't see that any pro or serious amateur would choose this for doing actual work as the "proper controls", as some of you refer to them, would be a hindrance in a serious shooting scenario compared to a DSLR using a modern control layout.

I'm a firm believer that as technology progresses we should move forward, and not waste time and money creating skeuomorphic mutants which fail to offer all of the advantages of the technology at hand.
 
gramps said:
Depends on your view of course, but in example quoted ... wedding photographer, I would have thought that a dual card slot would be very desirable, the fact that "we used to only have" is IMO not a reason to ignore what is now available. Similarly with the AF, the limited focus points is certainly a negative when compared with what is possible with the available technology and hence IMO what should be made available in 'latest' advances ... especially one touted as 'pure photography'.
The Df is launching at almost £1k above the cost of a D800, I'm not convinced that represents a quality advancement for the end user TBH.
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The costs has already been discussed at some length here.

I never understand why people think Nikon (and canon) should stuff all there top end features in anything other then their top end cameras. But I guess we'll disagree on that one. The 39 point AF is more then good enough. You could equally argue that if it real was 'pure photography' it should be MF only, with a split screen.

Theres lots of wedding photographers still more then happy with their d700s and 5d MKii - they don't see dual slots as a reason to upgrade. But despite the example quoted I doubt very much Nikon had produced a camera aimed squarely at wedding photographers. TBH much as I love this camera, I won't be buying one for work, purely because I regard work DLR's as tools. Nothing more.
 
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