Nikon mirrorless definitely on the way

StewartR

StewartR

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StewartR said:
https://petapixel.com/2018/04/30/nikon-confirms-new-mirrorless-system-to-arrive-by-spring-2019/

It's hard to disentangle the hard facts provided by Nikon from the rumours and expectations added by third parties, so I'll leave you to do that. The only solid fact seems to be that Nikon definitely have something in the pipeline.
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Not really news is it... :D everybody knew they and Canon had to move with the times.... have they left it too late, that remains to be seen. :)
 
Eloise said:
Not really too late when 75% of people "seriously" taking photographs still use a Canon or Nikon dSLR and over 50% of ILC camera sales are still dSLR.
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And I suppose if everyone jumped off a cliff...

I do tire of the view that only Nikon and Canon make serious cameras because that's what pros use and as you've previously said that mirrorless isn't for you I wouldn't expect you to post otherwise.

Jase said:
Agree, if anything Sony left it too late to roll out the lenses that they need convert Canon & Nikon pro users, and to be honest they still don't have them.
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I wonder what percentage of users these pros and serious photograph takers who genuinely need the lenses that aren't available in native Sony mount are, x%? 0.x%? I wonder what percentage could use adapted lenses with no significant issues? That's real world but those who claim to need something that isn't available may include a percentage of fantasists and gear fondlers :D
 
woof woof said:
I do tire of the view that only Nikon and Canon make serious cameras because that's what pros use and as you've previously said that mirrorless isn't for you I wouldn't expect you to post otherwise.
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You really are a Sony / Mirrorless fanboy aren't you? Where did I say (or even suggest) that only Nikon and Canon make serious cameras? Where did I disparage anything about your beloved mirrorless cameras in this post (and yes I'm on record saying mirrorless cameras are not for me because of the viewfinder issue that I personally have but that has nothing to do with Nikon launching a mirrorless camera)? You are reading things into my posts which just aren't there because you are being defensive about mirrorless.

By "seriously taking photographs" I was intending to mean professional and enthusiasts ... to exclude the cell phones and (most) compact cameras which are used by "happy snappy" photographers to take photographs. (Maybe I'm digging myself deeper here!)

It is a FACT that (okay not a fact as I'm estimating) that around 75% of cameras - maybe even more - in use are still dSLR from Nikon or Canon or Pentax. Its also a fact that around 50% of camera sales are still for dSLRs. Therefore (related to the comment I was replying to) there is still a lot of camera users yet to be converted to mirrorless, so no, IN MY OPINION its not "too late" as @Riz_Guru asked for Nikon and Canon.

Thats all I was saying ... no need to be so defensive!
 
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Eloise said:
IN MY OPINION its not "too late" as @Riz_Guru asked for Nikon and Canon.
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Hopefully it's not too late.... I actually prefer Nikon as a brand over Sony, it has a lot more history.
I can't wait to see what Nikon bring out....... if its a Sony A9 beating body with their existing lens mount, it could be a winner.
 
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Going a little off topic now and excuse my ignorance, but why do/would the camera if mirrorless have a different mount, compared to the mirrored version?
 
Jase said:
Agree, if anything Sony left it too late to roll out the lenses that they need convert Canon & Nikon pro users, and to be honest they still don't have them.
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Sony are so far ahead in this mirrorless market and Nikon so far behind it’s not even funny. I’m a Nikon DSLR user and won’t be switching to mirrorless but I’m not under the illusions that Sony are behind on the lens front when it comes to mirrorless.

Assuming that Nikon F lenses won’t be native then Nikon have a total of zero full frame mirrorless lenses.
 
Nostromo said:
Going a little off topic now and excuse my ignorance, but why do/would the camera if mirrorless have a different mount, compared to the mirrored version?
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There are arguments both ways but essentially...
Using the existing F mount (for Nikon) allows Nikon to leverage the mass of F mount lenses out there to promote their camera; however a new mount (probably all electronic) could also avoid problems of compatibility with some lenses - Nikon F mount encompasses MF, 2 forms of AF (in body motor and in lens motor) as well as everything from pre-AI lenses through to modern G (no aperture ring but mechanical linkage) and E type (full electromagnetic aperture) lenses. To support them all would likely be problematic.

Developing a new mount gets around all those problems of compatibility and also allows you to design the mount and lenses exclusively for mirrorless cameras with shorter lens to sensor distances; however that also means purchasers have to "throw away" all their existing lenses meaning there is less incentive for someone who has extensively bought into Nikon to stick with Nikon for mirrorless rather than (say) going with Sony or Canon. An adaptor can get round that somewhat ... but then if an adaptor converts Nikon F lenses to Nikon "mirrorless" bodies, you can be sure some Chinese company will reverse engineer it to improve their Nikon F to Sony or Canon adaptors.
 
Riz_Guru said:
Hopefully it's not too late.... I actually prefer Nikon as a brand over Sony, it has a lot more history.
I can't wait to see what Nikon bring out....... if its a Sony A9 beating body with their existing lens mount, it could be a winner.
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I just can’t see their first incarnation, their mark 1, their toe dipped in the murky waters being as good as something that’s been honed over numerous revisions.

Don’t forget Sony bought Minolta out and all that went with it so that’s some history!
 
Nostromo said:
Going a little off topic now and excuse my ignorance, but why do/would the camera if mirrorless have a different mount, compared to the mirrored version?
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The short answer to that is because removing the mirror allows you to reduce the gap between the back of the lens and the sensor. Doing so makes lenses cheaper and lighter to make. You already see this to a point with DX vs FX Lenses (I can't remember what the Cannon equivalent is). If you wanted to, you could press those advantages further by changing the lens mount ( & also if you're Nikon remove some of the fundamental problems wth your lens mounts)
 
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boyfalldown said:
The short answer to that is because removing the mirror allows you to reduce the gap between the back of the lens and the sensor. Doing so makes lenses cheaper and lighter to make. You already see this to a point with DX vs FX Lenses (I can't remember what the Cannon equivalent is). If you wanted to, you could press those advantages further by changing the lens mount ( & also if you're Nikon remove some of the fundamental problems wth your lens mounts)
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Canon already have a superb range of lenses. Why start again? The saving in weight is minimal when your looking at superteles. Not everyone wants a smaller body. A 5d4 sized mirrorless body that did the business would be fine for many people.
 
Gaz J said:
Canon already have a superb range of lenses. Why start again? The saving in weight is minimal when your looking at superteles. Not everyone wants a smaller body. A 5d4 sized mirrorless body that did the business would be fine for many people.
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a) because this thread is about Nikon

&

b) because I answered the following question

Nostromo said:
Going a little off topic now and excuse my ignorance, but why do/would the camera if mirrorless have a different mount, compared to the mirrored version?
Click to expand...

I didn't express any opinion about if Canon, Nikon or anybody else should start again. Just answered that question. Not to tricky to comprehend
 
Nostromo said:
Going a little off topic now and excuse my ignorance, but why do/would the camera if mirrorless have a different mount, compared to the mirrored version?
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It doesn't have to be a new mount, but there are advantages to having one - both for practical/performance reasons and perhaps more importantly from a sales and marketing point of view.

If Canon and Nikon get it right, they'll attract mirrorless buyers who can use their existing lenses via an adapter. And that will work very well, but to take full advantage of what mirrorless has to offer, a range of sleek new custom designed optics with some small performance benefits will be very appealing. Canikon will gleefully seize the opportunity to sell, potentially, tens of millions of new lenses all over again. And we in turn can look forward to a corresponding increase in used DSLR camera and lens bargains flooding onto the market :)
 
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woof woof said:
And I suppose if everyone jumped off a cliff...

I do tire of the view that only Nikon and Canon make serious cameras because that's what pros use and as you've previously said that mirrorless isn't for you I wouldn't expect you to post otherwise.



I wonder what percentage of users these pros and serious photograph takers who genuinely need the lenses that aren't available in native Sony mount are, x%? 0.x%? I wonder what percentage could use adapted lenses with no significant issues? That's real world but those who claim to need something that isn't available may include a percentage of fantasists and gear fondlers :D
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so you've finally been found out Alan,you really are a Sony fanboy :LOL::ROFLMAO: dont tell Riz or Jonny or they'll be round your house :D
 
Brazo said:
I just can’t see their first incarnation, their mark 1, their toe dipped in the murky waters being as good as something that’s been honed over numerous revisions.
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Although they've never produced a Full Frame ... don't forget they have a lot of tech from the Nikon 1 range. They just need someone to fab their sensors!
 
Brazo said:
I just can’t see their first incarnation, their mark 1, their toe dipped in the murky waters being as good as something that’s been honed over numerous revisions.
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There's plenty of holes in Sony's approach but I think the biggest thing is where they placed the A73, I simply do not see Canon or Nikon making a camera better than the A73 at the same price point and they're both at least a year away from releasing said camera.

Competition's a good thing for us though.
 
You really think the guys in R&D have only just started working on the FF mirrorless project?

They've been R&D'ing for years so I imagine the first examples will still be pretty good.
 
Gaz J said:
Canon already have a superb range of lenses. Why start again? The saving in weight is minimal when your looking at superteles. Not everyone wants a smaller body. A 5d4 sized mirrorless body that did the business would be fine for many people.
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Might be required to get the most out of a new system (very high frame rate, silent/accurate focusing across different modes etc) and you can't ignore a company putting out new optical designs forever, they might not get them all right but most should outperform older ones which should make their system more attractive.
 
boyfalldown said:
a) because this thread is about Nikon

&

b) because I answered the following question



I didn't express any opinion about if Canon, Nikon or anybody else should start again. Just answered that question. Not to tricky to comprehend
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Ok substitute Nikon for canon and d850 for 5d4 but maybe not as you mentioned Canon.

Now that shouldn't be too difficult for you to comprehend.
 
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GreenNinja67 said:
You really think the guys in R&D have only just started working on the FF mirrorless project?

They've been R&D'ing for years so I imagine the first examples will still be pretty good.
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Exactly and have the advantage of seeing what has and hasn't worked with other brands. I'd like to see some retro styling on the Nikon body similar to Fuji then I'll be happy.
 
simonbarker said:
There's plenty of holes in Sony's approach but I think the biggest thing is where they placed the A73, I simply do not see Canon or Nikon making a camera better than the A73 at the same price point and they're both at least a year away from releasing said camera.

Competition's a good thing for us though.
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There is no way Canon’s competition in the FF pro mirrorless bodies can compete with the A73 for spec and price.
 
Gaz J said:
Ok substitute Nikon for canon and d850 for 5d4 but maybe not as you mentioned Canon.

Now that shouldn't be too difficult for you to comprehend.
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Yawn bore off and learn to read. It’s not difficult to understand what I wrote. Even an idiot could manage it
 
simonbarker said:
There's plenty of holes in Sony's approach but I think the biggest thing is where they placed the A73, I simply do not see Canon or Nikon making a camera better than the A73 at the same price point and they're both at least a year away from releasing said camera.

Competition's a good thing for us though.
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Mirrorless performance all hinges around the sensor, particularly with phase-detect AF pixels tech - where Canon has been something of a pioneer.

Canon are unique in making their own sensors and they've been criticised for lagging a bit in that department recently (not that it has held back sales one bit). It begs the question, do Canon simply not have the technical capability, or have they just been channeling everything into new mirrorless sensor development? My guess is the latter, and perhaps we will find out at Photokina this autumn.
 
Anyways watch canikon canalised there DSLR when there Mirroless drops because that is the only way they can compete with Sony.

No half arsed gimped Mirroless to try and protect there D850 will cut it
 
HoppyUK said:
Mirrorless performance all hinges around the sensor, particularly with phase-detect AF pixels tech - where Canon has been something of a pioneer.

Canon are unique in making their own sensors and they've been criticised for lagging a bit in that department recently (not that it has held back sales one bit). It begs the question, do Canon simply not have the technical capability, or have they just been channeling everything into new mirrorless sensor development? My guess is the latter, and perhaps we will find out at Photokina this autumn.
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Sorry but the phase detection from canon for moving subjects is pants.

It's great for slow static subjects but hasn't got a chance tracking a bird (there dual pixel af tech)
 
HoppyUK said:
Canon are unique in making their own sensors and they've been criticised for lagging a bit in that department recently (not that it has held back sales one bit). It begs the question, do Canon simply not have the technical capability, or have they just been channeling everything into new mirrorless sensor development? My guess is the latter, and perhaps we will find out at Photokina this autumn.
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There's also the possibility that despite having the technical ability they simply focused on maximum profit, take Intel as an example, when they were fighting for 1GHz with AMD you could see obvious performance gains even if you upgraded yearly but now you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference between their latest and what they put out 5 years ago.

No doubt there's a lot of work going into development that we're not aware of but I don't get the impression it was their priority. I do wish they'd hurry up and announce what they plan to do, it would be nice to know if people can rely on their old glass in the future etc.
 
Eloise said:
Although they've never produced a Full Frame ... don't forget they have a lot of tech from the Nikon 1 range. They just need someone to fab their sensors!
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Someone like...

Sony ;)
 
Gaz J said:
Canon already have a superb range of lenses. Why start again? The saving in weight is minimal when your looking at superteles. Not everyone wants a smaller body. A 5d4 sized mirrorless body that did the business would be fine for many people.
Click to expand...
I think that misses the point of mirrorless. It would just end up being mirrorless for the sake of it with zero size saving.

Canon (and Nikon) will have to start again from scratch which is why they have been resisting this for so long. They will be noobs in a matur(ing) market that Sony dominates. Sony will probably have the A7(4) out by the time we see a system from Nikon.

I honestly don’t think Nikon can compete but if it means dslr prices drop I can pick up some D850’s on the cheap:)
 
We all know Canonare holding back, they always feel like they are holding back something whereas Sony feels like every release they throw in the kitchen sink.

I really want to see what Canon can do it they just take Sony’s approach.

Brazo said:
I think that misses the point of mirrorless. It would just end up being mirrorless for the sake of it with zero size saving.

Canon (and Nikon) will have to start again from scratch which is why they have been resisting this for so long. They will be noobs in a matur(ing) market that Sony dominates. Sony will probably have the A7(4) out by the time we see a system from Nikon.

I honestly don’t think Nikon can compete but if it means dslr prices drop I can pick up some D850’s on the cheap:)
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The original point or mirrorless is lose the mirror box to make it smaller. However mirrorless also started with abs popularised with M4/3 which by default, is smaller anyway. When you scale it to FF, the size thing don’t translate and does not carry over. FF sensor will require FF lenses. You can put on a M4/3 lens on a FF body.

Mirrorless does not equal small.

M4/3 is small. Bigger sensor = bigger body and bigger lenses and bigger systems.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Sorry but the phase detection from canon for moving subjects is pants.

It's great for slow static subjects but hasn't got a chance tracking a bird (there dual pixel af tech)
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They could manage to track arsenals rise up the table then :)
 
•


Every year, there are assignments that require that I rent
mirrorless gear (since no blimp on the market cuts it) that
will justify me welcoming an eventual Nikon version. BUT
only on condition that the rest of the system is compatible.
 
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