Nikon mirrorless definitely on the way

snerkler said:
There’s very little wrong with the D750, or the D850, or the 5D4 etc etc. Mirrorless aren’t the be all and end all, but I think it’s the way the market is shifting. For me it gives the option of a lighter setup when paired with the right lens meaning I could have FF for travel as well as everyday stuff. Also, Nikon has the worst liveview on the market, mirrorless certainly trumps it here. Now to be fair DSLRs don’t lend themselves to frequent use of live view like mirrorless do imo, but then this is another advantage of mirrorless for travel for me (I use liveview a lot on holiday). Lastly AF spread, mirrorless has a big advantage.

But that’s about it for me, all the other bells and whistles I’m not bothered about. The final image will be no better, and there are some downsides to mirrorless such as balance with large/heavy lenses. If it wasn’t for wanting a lighter camera for travel I don’t think I’d honestly be tempted by mirrorless at this stage.
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That's an interesting point with regards to live view. I very rarely use it but when I do it's when I'm holding the camera over my head. On those occasions the AF is slow. That said, I wouldn't use live view even if it were lightning fast. I prefer holding the camera to my eye and I believe it's more stable held that way.
 
redhed17 said:
Towards the end the is a camera on the stand with a grip, and it looks awful and huge. :eek: Let's hope it is for reference and the real thing will be designed better. ;)
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Here is a thought…you know how a couple of the Sony lenses are small, like the 35/2.8 and 55/1.8. They are basically the width of the mount, and have you notice the size of the Nikon 35/1.8 which is the width of the mount, so I doubt they will release "small" lenses because the mount is that big, unless it tapers in like a cone.

We might be seeing a new breed of lenses that is MUCH bigger than we've ever seen in DSLR. Especially if they take the no compromised approach like Sigma did with the Art series, alas 105/1.4. This new mount will open up the possibility to some hefty lenses.
 
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snerkler said:
interesting, how does this work?.
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I have the Group Area-AF set as the default AF, then the top button selects Single Point and the bottom button selects 9-Point.
I find thid gives me a lot of flexibility with wildlife inc BIF.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I wish you the best of luck at your next job.

(If the card fails and you your all the images, it may be your last)
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Maybe the camera isn't targeted at the professional photographer - they have the D850 & D5 as the pro bodies. (Pic the correct camera for your use if dual cards is high on the agenda)

For an amateur/enthusiast a card failure is a PITA but not a matter of life and death. Further to this XQD is far more reliable than CF where the majority of failures come from bent pins and poor electrical contact.

Like @HoppyUK - card failure has never happened on my XQD cards and is way down the list of worries (In fact it isn't on the list) & it's importance is over hyped; there are far more camera failures than memory card failures in reality.

I don't worry about which of the two brake pedals to press in my car in case one doesn't work or load two films into my camera.

Nikon may well loose sales through no dual card slot but if they had put dual XQD cards in there people would have moaned about costs and if they had put XQD and SD people would have moaned the SD card 'deliberately' slowed the data transfer down.

After the recent thread about changing to mirror-less I can't yet see any advantage of a full frame mirror-less over a FF DSLR so your choice as a Pro buying Nikon would be D850 or D5 and D750, also the Z series if dual card slots are not a concern, if you're a keen enthusiast you now have the Z series if you want mirror-less for some reason.
 
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snerkler said:
You could of course, assuming you could find someone who had the same taste as yourself ;)
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The point of the profile is not taste, it's accuracy. You get it accurate and then you apply your 'taste' or style, and the if you are consistent in your taste or style, and do the same things most of the time, you can save what you do as a preset applied to profiled image on import. That could be your starting point for more detailed editing if needed.
 
Fraser Euan White said:
Maybe the camera isn't targeted at the professional photographer - they have the D850 & D5 as the pro bodies. (Pic the correct camera for your use if dual cards is high on the agenda)

For an amateur/enthusiast a card failure is a PITA but not a matter of life and death. Further to this XQD is far more reliable than CF where the majority of failures come from bent pins and poor electrical contact.

Like @HoppyUK - card failure has never happened on my XQD cards and is way down the list of worries (In fact it isn't on the list) & it's importance is over hyped; there are far more camera failures than memory card failures in reality.

I don't worry about which of the two brake pedals to press in my car in case one doesn't work or load two films into my camera.

Nikon may well loose sales through no dual card slot but if they had put dual XQD cards in there people would have moaned about costs and if they had put XQD and SD people would have moaned the SD card 'deliberately' slowed the data transfer down.

After the recent thread about changing to mirror-less I can't yet see any advantage of a full frame mirror-less over a FF DSLR so your choice as a Pro buying Nikon would be D850 or D5 and D750, also the Z series if dual card slots are not a concern, if you're a keen enthusiast you now have the Z series if you want mirror-less for some reason.
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No. But your car does have dual circuit braking so you don’t loose both the front and rear at the same time.

Like I said. Managing avoidable risk.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Here is a thought…you know how a couple of the Sony lenses are small, like the 35/2.8 and 55/1.8. They are basically the width of the mount, and have you notice the size of the Nikon 35/1.8 which is the width of the mount, so I doubt they will release "small" lenses because the mount is that big, unless it tapers in like a cone.

We might be seeing a new breed of lenses that is MUCH bigger than we've ever seen in DSLR. Especially if they take the no compromised approach like Sigma did with the Art series, alas 105/1.4. This new mount will open up the possibility to some hefty lenses.
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But as I keep saying, the opposite is true, lenses designed specifically for the reduced distance to sensor can be small and fast. What is happening atm is that lenses designed for a DSLR are having a spacer added to their mount which allows a lens design to be bodged to fit.
 
A7III colours in a few different lighting situations. I don't think my processed images are any different to my Nikon ones. Once you've adjusted your base preset(s) it isn't any more difficult to process them either.

ouNeXn4.jpg
 
Fraser Euan White said:
Maybe the camera isn't targeted at the professional photographer - they have the D850 & D5 as the pro bodies. (Pic the correct camera for your use if dual cards is high on the agenda)
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They are both in the enthusiast/ pro price range, and feel like mirrorless versions of the D750 and D850 to me. I think Nikon may have called the pro cameras in their announcement too. ;)

Fraser Euan White said:
For an amateur/enthusiast a card failure is a PITA but not a matter of life and death. Further to this XQD is far more reliable than CF where the majority of failures come from bent pins and poor electrical contact.

Like @HoppyUK - card failure has never happened on my XQD cards and is way down the list of worries (In fact it isn't on the list) & it's importance is over hyped; there are far more camera failures than memory card failures in reality.
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It is generally not life and death for a pro either, though possibly for their career in the right/wrong situation. ;)

The thing about not hearing of XQD card failures is that there are not many people using them in comparison to SD, and CF in the past. Will there be more problems arising as more people use them? I read one person on Nikon Rumors today say he had had an XQD card fail. Now that's one, but divided by the number of users/cards it could be significant, time will tell.

Fraser Euan White said:
Nikon may well loose sales through no dual card slot but if they had put dual XQD cards in there people would have moaned about costs and if they had put XQD and SD people would have moaned the SD card 'deliberately' slowed the data transfer down.
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I don't think the SD card in my D500 slows down the camera significantly. :thinking: And that has XQD and SD card slots in a camera cheaper than either of these two Z cameras. These mirrorless cameras are supposed to save the manufacturers money as they don't have to pay for the expensive prism and align the AF. ;)

Fraser Euan White said:
After the recent thread about changing to mirror-less I can't yet see any advantage of a full frame mirror-less over a FF DSLR so your choice as a Pro buying Nikon would be D850 or D5 and D750, also the Z series if dual card slots are not a concern, if your a keen enthusiast you now have the Z series if you want mirror-less for some reason.
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You pays your money, or not, and you make your choice. :) Great to have all these choices though isn't it. ;)
 
Fraser Euan White said:
Maybe the camera isn't targeted at the professional photographer - they have the D850 & D5 as the pro bodies. (Pic the correct camera for your use if dual cards is high on the agenda)
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A £3399 camera isn't targeted at professionals?! And if it isn't targeted at professionals why would it use XQD cards that can cost as much as some basic DSLRs?
 
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but FroKnowsPhoto just posted a photo on his IG using a Sigma 50mm Art through the adaptor. Looks like non-Nikon lenses are working.

That almost tips the balance for me to upgrade from my D800 now.
 
@decigallen ..........because they already have the best full frame DSLR on the market (D850) that they want to keep as the Pro choice of their line up for high resolution work. What significant advantage at this point in time does any FF mirror-less give over this awesome package with it's fantastic lens choice? (I would suggest just a 'fashion' statement and a new gadget.)

I've no doubt mirror-less is the future as it's much easier/cheaper to produce but at the moment I can see no reason whatsoever to change from full frame DSLR to full frame mirror-less. I can see reasons to change from Full Frame DSLR to a different format mirror-less though.
 
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Fraser Euan White said:
@decigallen ..........because they already have the best full frame DSLR on the market (D850) that they want to keep as the Pro choice of their line up for high resolution work. What significant advantage at this point in time does any FF mirror-less give over this awesome package with it's fantastic lens choice? (I would suggest just a 'fashion' statement and a new gadget.)

I've no doubt mirror-less is the future as it's much easier/cheaper to produce but at the moment I can see no reason whatsoever to change from full frame DSLR to full frame mirror-less. I can see reasons to change from Full Frame DSLR to a different format mirror-less though.
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Silent shooting
Size and weight
Easier to use with manual lenses thanks to peaking
Easier to nail exposure
Sharper focusing with no AF micro adjustments needed
EVF shooting
Accurate AF with the LCD screen
More AF points with near edge to edge coverage

Just off the top of my head..

As for crippling their mirrorless to keep D850 sales, Steve Jobs said that you should never be afraid to cannibalise your own sales, or someone else will. I would've bought a killer 24mp Mirrorless Nikon. I don't want or need a D850 - the file size and larger, heavier body put me off.
 
twist said:
@snerkler and @SsSsSsSsSnake @jonneymendoza I know which I prefer.... and it sure aint pinkie pie.

View attachment 132998
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Fraser Euan White said:
The iPhone looks best!

Sony looks like he has been on a 'dirty protest', Canon looks anaemic and Nikon looks like he has come off a sunbed!
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That canon image is clearly almost a stop brighter than the rest, and the iPhone is half a stop under, which many will find ‘pleasing’, when comparing colour, surely the first step is to baseline exposure?
 
Phil V said:
That canon image is clearly almost a stop brighter than the rest, and the iPhone is half a stop under, which many will find ‘pleasing’, when comparing colour, surely the first step is to baseline exposure?
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I thought the canon one was a touch OE also
 
I also couldn't care less about the missing card slot. I would actually much prefer UHS-II SD card if anything.

What concerns me is the very low declared battery life. I know it is CIPA standard, but still look terrible when compared with other cameras.

I was waiting for this, but not preordering my Z7 just yet as the battery life can be a deal breaker if it is really as bad as older Sony models. I will wait until it gets into hands of someone who is not a Nikon ambassador or affiliated in any way. Usually, those initial launch reviews are very biased and almost never reveal any real issues.
 
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decigallen said:
Silent shooting
Size and weight
Easier to use with manual lenses thanks to peaking
Easier to nail exposure
Sharper focusing with no AF micro adjustments needed
EVF shooting
Accurate AF with the LCD screen
More AF points with near edge to edge coverage

Just off the top of my head..

As for crippling their mirrorless to keep D850 sales, Steve Jobs said that you should never be afraid to cannibalise your own sales, or someone else will. I would've bought a killer 24mp Mirrorless Nikon. I don't want or need a D850 - the file size and larger, heavier body put me off.
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The main reasons I bought into mirrorless were to reduce size and weight but also as I thought that smaller kit would attract less attention and it does. It was only later that I saw the other advantages you've listed. The fact that I can have a FF camera with a Sony 35mm f2.8 or Voigtlander f1.4 and it'll fit in a winter coat pocket or the same bag my MFT GX9 fits in still amazes me.
 
Phil V said:
That canon image is clearly almost a stop brighter than the rest, and the iPhone is half a stop under, which many will find ‘pleasing’, when comparing colour, surely the first step is to baseline exposure?
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Feel free to take the canon down in post to match the exposure.
 
decigallen said:
A £3399 camera isn't targeted at professionals?! And if it isn't targeted at professionals why would it use XQD cards that can cost as much as some basic DSLRs?
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No, these new cameras are not targeted at professionals. Neither are the Sony A7-series. That doesn't stop professionals using them of course, but Nikon's success will not stand or fall by what a few wedding photographers think - they're a very small sector of the total market (even if we could be forgiven for thinking otherwise from the vocal minority on here) ;)
 
woof woof said:
The main reasons I bought into mirrorless were to reduce size and weight but also as I thought that smaller kit would attract less attention and it does. It was only later that I saw the other advantages you've listed. The fact that I can have a FF camera with a Sony 35mm f2.8 or Voigtlander f1.4 and it'll fit in a winter coat pocket or the same bag my MFT GX9 fits in still amazes me.
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.........but I absolutely hate the Sony! I have handled one and used one and not in any way shape or form would I buy one - I think it looks Sh*t and looking through the EVF is a horrible experience; there is no pleasure in use whatsoever from my own perspective. I photograph for a hobby and if I have no desire or pleasure in using a camera then it's of no use.

I'm not a Pro so the ultimate performance isn't important; using a camera gives me as much fun as seeing the end result (quite lucky here as the end result is usually disappointing!). I have a Rollei 35 with an f2.8 Sonar lens that is just bigger than a cigarette box if I want something to 'slip in my pocket' to take some pics and is much more enjoyable to use than anything Sony could produce!

It is an 'appreciation of the tool' more than the product (photograph) that gives me my love of photography and is why I probably prefer film as the mechanical engineering in older cameras gives me delight & the chemical process of recording and developing the image. Sometimes people need to appreciate that everyone enjoys hobbies for different reasons, if having the latest gadget gives you fun then there is no problem with this either!
 
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twist said:
Feel free to take the canon down in post to match the exposure.
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If you look at the big to the left of the subject you can see that the canon and iPhone images have different exposure, I’ve no desire to put it right, I have no interest in other camera makers colours. ;)

I’m more interested in why the camera mfrs aren’t interested in making lenses the right size for these new cameras.
 
twist said:
@snerkler and @SsSsSsSsSnake @jonneymendoza I know which I prefer.... and it sure aint pinkie pie.

View attachment 132998
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meh, I’m not convinced they bother with WB settings on those shots, my D750 never had Percy Pig skin tones ;)

gramps said:
I have the Group Area-AF set as the default AF, then the top button selects Single Point and the bottom button selects 9-Point.
I find thid gives me a lot of flexibility with wildlife inc BIF.
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Interesting. Does it change on press and then change back if you press again, or do you have to press and hold?

redhed17 said:
The point of the profile is not taste, it's accuracy. You get it accurate and then you apply your 'taste' or style, and the if you are consistent in your taste or style, and do the same things most of the time, you can save what you do as a preset applied to profiled image on import. That could be your starting point for more detailed editing if needed.
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My comment was tongue in cheek ;)
 
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