Noise free images and more!

Messages
4,909
Edit My Images
Yes
#1
In another thread I've talked about Topaz Labs new AI program "JPEG to RAW".
I've continued to test it and am even more amazed at what it can do.

"A picture is worth a thousand words" so here are several thousand words:

Before processing:


Insect on Buddleia Bush - VERY NOISY! 1DsMkII/5853
by Albert Hurwood, on Flickr

After processing:


Insect on Buddleia Bush - SAVED by AI! 1DsII/5853
by Albert Hurwood, on Flickr

Before processing:


Heron and Fish (1) 40D/3307
by Albert Hurwood, on Flickr

After processing:


Heron and Fish (2) 40D/3307
by Albert Hurwood, on Flickr

Frankly after these results I don't think anything else need be said about whether the program works or not.

Because it so obviously does!

See even more results here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/20926615@N05/stats
 
Last edited:
Messages
2,869
Name
Richard
Edit My Images
Yes
#2
The noise reduction in the first shot is decent, I'll give it that. The Heron looks a tad oversharpened, and there is nothing there that couldn't be achieved with the sharpening slider in any image editing program.

And it still doesn't make jpeg files into raw files, that's an out and out lie.
 
OP
OP
petersmart
Messages
4,909
Edit My Images
Yes
#3
The noise reduction in the first shot is decent, I'll give it that. The Heron looks a tad oversharpened, and there is nothing there that couldn't be achieved with the sharpening slider in any image editing program.

And it still doesn't make jpeg files into raw files, that's an out and out lie.
Well I certainly can't be bothered arguing about semantics but if you think you can achieve the same results in another program - here's your chance

I have put that JPEG here:
https://we.tl/t-ghCroNixXc

Just download it and see how you get on.

I gave a similar challenge before but no one took me up on it.

BTW it should be noise free and have full details in the reeds etc.

It was also upscaled in AI Gigapixel after processing in JPEG to RAW so I could get a decent size to work on.

In my case all the pics above were also put through my HDR program EasyHDR3 to bring out the full details before final editing.
 
Last edited:
Messages
6,812
Name
Steven
Edit My Images
Yes
#7
I gave a similar challenge before but no one took me up on it.
Ok, but there's only so much time/effort I'm willing to spend on it... so here's a quick edit (somewhat overdone, but comparable IMO)
One thing to note; I didn't apply any sharpening/edits to the water areas... it's very busy in your after example. And that's a benefit of doing it manually, plus I didn't need to buy another $100 program/plugin.
I just copied the before image posted above, so it's a little different from your after composition.

Untitled-3.jpg
 
OP
OP
petersmart
Messages
4,909
Edit My Images
Yes
#8
Ok, but there's only so much time/effort I'm willing to spend on it... so here's a quick edit (somewhat overdone, but comparable IMO)
One thing to note; I didn't apply any sharpening/edits to the water areas... it's very busy in your after example. And that's a benefit of doing it manually, plus I didn't need to buy another $100 program/plugin.
I just copied the before image posted above, so it's a little different from your after composition.

View attachment 236944
As you say you've sharpened it but it misses all the subtle details apparent in the J2R processed image with far less detail in the feathers, reeds, fish scales etc.

But if you're happy with that kind of image then fine, I will be buying the Topaz program because it can produce excellent images in addition to being a far better NR program than any other I have seen or used.

And far simpler to use.
 
Messages
5,456
Edit My Images
No
#9
I know that I don't need this software, evidenced by the difficulty in going through thousands of images and being unable to find a suitably noisy file, but I thought I'd give it ago.

So this was one of the noisiest photos I could find.
  1. JPG file size of 14MB converted to a DNG/TIFF of 123MB
  2. There is a colour shift between these two images
  3. There is negligible difference in noise
First image is original, second is the J2R image.



 
Last edited:
OP
OP
petersmart
Messages
4,909
Edit My Images
Yes
#10
I tried it and as you say it makes no difference.

But I think that is due to the fact that it is not a digital image but taken from a b/w film which will have a noise structure totally different to a digital image with noise.

I would say it is probably a film like Kodak's Tri-X pan going from the grain.
 
Messages
5,456
Edit My Images
No
#11
I tried it and as you say it makes no difference.

But I think that is due to the fact that it is not a digital image but taken from a b/w film which will have a noise structure totally different to a digital image with noise.

I would say it is probably a film like Kodak's Tri-X pan going from the grain.
No it’s from a raw processed using lightroom, does it matter that it’s a processed file.
 
OP
OP
petersmart
Messages
4,909
Edit My Images
Yes
#12
No it’s from a raw processed using lightroom, does it matter that it’s a processed file.
No it doesn't matter but as I say the structure of the grain or noise makes me feel it was originally a film, was it scanned etc?
 
Messages
5,456
Edit My Images
No
#16
I thought I'd do a more controlled test.

ISO 50,000 which is the max the camera I'm testing with will do, colours obviously become a bit anaemic (results below)

It's not doing anything that couldn't be achieved in Lightroom so far, and it causes an unwanted colour cast as it did with the monochrome image.

I'm glad you find it works for you, but it does nothing for me.




Imported the file to Lightroom and exported to JPG without an edit.



Ran the JPG through JPG to RAW as DNG/TIFF (same results) - it changed the colour again as it did with my monochrome image above.

 
Last edited:
OP
OP
petersmart
Messages
4,909
Edit My Images
Yes
#18
Well the ones of you have less noise in the background so it's certainly doing something, and you're almost there with the heron.

But as I said it works brilliantly for me on almost all the images I've tried, and I can batch process hundreds at a time - at this moment over 250 images are being processed on my Z800.

And programs like this really are the future and will only get better and better as time goes on.

And Topaz have just upgraded AI Gigapixel again and they are constantly feeding more and more images into their AI to improve the results, and the same for J2R.

And more and more companies are doing the same so AI really is the future.
 
Messages
6,610
Name
Ned
Edit My Images
Yes
#19
Well the ones of you have less noise in the background so it's certainly doing something, and you're almost there with the heron.

But as I said it works brilliantly for me on almost all the images I've tried, and I can batch process hundreds at a time - at this moment over 250 images are being processed on my Z800.

And programs like this really are the future and will only get better and better as time goes on.

And Topaz have just upgraded AI Gigapixel again and they are constantly feeding more and more images into their AI to improve the results, and the same for J2R.

And more and more companies are doing the same so AI really is the future.

This isn't AI, it's machine learning (as is everything branded as AI) - quite a big difference and nowhere near sophisticated enough to rely on to process 100's of images IMO (and who wants 100's of images processed at a time?). AI is a loooong way off.

Scanning the thread there is nothing that makes me want to use Topaz, I think @RichardC27 edit is the best of the heron and preferable to the Topaz version (which looks over sharpened to me). Glad you're happy with it though.
 
OP
OP
petersmart
Messages
4,909
Edit My Images
Yes
#20
This isn't AI, it's machine learning (as is everything branded as AI) - quite a big difference and nowhere near sophisticated enough to rely on to process 100's of images IMO (and who wants 100's of images processed at a time?). AI is a loooong way off.

Scanning the thread there is nothing that makes me want to use Topaz, I think @RichardC27 edit is the best of the heron and preferable to the Topaz version (which looks over sharpened to me). Glad you're happy with it though.
Well batch processing is necessary for me because I have literally thousands of older images to process.

I have batch processing in almost all my programs, Neat Image, EasyHDR3, J2R, AI Gigapixel etc.

And I am extremely happy with both Topaz programs because they do exactly what I want.
 
OP
OP
petersmart
Messages
4,909
Edit My Images
Yes
#21
nowhere near sophisticated enough to rely on to process 100's of images IMO
It's sohisticated enough because it can adjust to the image without having to keep on adjusting different sliders etc - there is only ONE adjustment to the blur and noise adjustment.

And the over sharpening is down to me if there is some, all the Topaz images were then put through my HDR program EasyHDR3 before final editing.
 
Messages
2,869
Name
Richard
Edit My Images
Yes
#22
This isn't AI, it's machine learning (as is everything branded as AI) - quite a big difference and nowhere near sophisticated enough to rely on to process 100's of images IMO (and who wants 100's of images processed at a time?). AI is a loooong way off.

Scanning the thread there is nothing that makes me want to use Topaz, I think @RichardC27 edit is the best of the heron and preferable to the Topaz version (which looks over sharpened to me). Glad you're happy with it though.
Looking at it now I've overdone it a bit, it's more contrasty than I would like but in terms of sharpness and noise reduction I did it Lightroom Mobile on my phone in a couple of minutes. The sharpening is way, way more than I would normally use but I've got loads of masking on there as well to make sure it only applies where I want it to.
 
OP
OP
petersmart
Messages
4,909
Edit My Images
Yes
#23
Looking at it now I've overdone it a bit, it's more contrasty than I would like but in terms of sharpness and noise reduction I did it Lightroom Mobile on my phone in a couple of minutes. The sharpening is way, way more than I would normally use but I've got loads of masking on there as well to make sure it only applies where I want it to.
Well with J2R I did nothing except put it through the program, then upscaled it in AI Gigapixel, again no adjustments necessary until it went into EasyHDR3.

It may seem odd to use a HDR program but this one is more like using multiple layers and can work on single images without making it obvious that HDR has been used.

In fact nearly all the images on the Topaz albums on my Flickr have been through this program.

So much easier than using layers and masking etc.

The final editing in my usual program Serif PhotoPlus X2 which I've used for years.
 
Messages
6,157
Name
Terry
Edit My Images
Yes
#26
I leave all my old images as they are till I want them for something. Only then might I revisit them with the latest versions of Lightroom or photoshop. who knows what we might be able to extract from the originals in the future. An intermediate batch work over would not be a help. It is always best to work from an original.
 
OP
OP
petersmart
Messages
4,909
Edit My Images
Yes
#27
I leave all my old images as they are till I want them for something. Only then might I revisit them with the latest versions of Lightroom or photoshop. who knows what we might be able to extract from the originals in the future. An intermediate batch work over would not be a help. It is always best to work from an original.
All I can say is that these new programs can now do what your programs cannot.

AI Gigapixel can upscale images from my 8MP 350D to over 30MP and a 40D to over 40MP which is why I bought it and not the Canon 5D MkIV I was considering.

And it also gives the equivalent "reach" of much more expensive lenses - so my 70-300mm L lens is now equivalent to 600mm without a loss of aperture - or a 200mm f2.8 can become equivalent to a 400mm f2.8 - which costs over £7000! - so that £80-90 price for the program doesn't look so bad now does it?

And as I showed in another thread J2R can actually improve a lens such as the 75-300mm:

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/now-convert-your-jpegs-to-raw.691289/page-2

Regardless of what people claim I have shown what these programs achieve - and they are being improved all the time.

And since so much is now being poured into even greater improvements especially in smartphones It's not surprising that AI is now at the forerunner of photographic improvements.
 
OP
OP
petersmart
Messages
4,909
Edit My Images
Yes
#29
Thing is, it's only you that thinks this.
Pity you didn't get the 5Dmk4 instead. You don't know what you're missing.
Well my bank balance is healthier, and I'm not the only ones who thinks these programs are great.

And I think it's quite likely that within a year or so they will be able to correct lens faults so even our good lenses will look better.
 
Messages
2,153
Edit My Images
Yes
#30
...It was also upscaled in AI Gigapixel after processing in JPEG to RAW so I could get a decent size to work on.

In my case all the pics above were also put through my HDR program EasyHDR3 to bring out the full details before final editing.
Surely if you are plugging a product those latter two extra processing stages should have been left out!?
 
OP
OP
petersmart
Messages
4,909
Edit My Images
Yes
#31
Surely if you are plugging a product those latter two extra processing stages should have been left out!?
I'm not plugging anything, I'm saying why I think these new programs are excellent and unlike a lot of naysayers I can prove they actually work, If I didn't think they were any good I certainly wouldn't be spending money on them.

After all how many people on here are always talking about PhotoShop or Lightroom, do you accuse them of plugging those products?

And as part of a work flow the way I work is just as relevant as the way they work.
 
Messages
2,701
Name
Brian
Edit My Images
Yes
#32
The examples are unrealistic. Sharpened to death, contrasty and realistic shadows totally eliminated. I don't know if thats due to the software your evangelising about or if it's the HDR you say you impose on everything. To me they look like cartoons.
I certainly wouldn't want my whole back catalogue looking like that. I prefer things to look real.
If it suits your needs thats good for you, enjoy.
 
OP
OP
petersmart
Messages
4,909
Edit My Images
Yes
#33
The examples are unrealistic. Sharpened to death, contrasty and realistic shadows totally eliminated. I don't know if thats due to the software your evangelising about or if it's the HDR you say you impose on everything. To me they look like cartoons.
I certainly wouldn't want my whole back catalogue looking like that. I prefer things to look real.
Really? then where are your photographs which must certainly put mine to shame?
 
Messages
7,141
Name
Graham
Edit My Images
No
#37
Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I had a bash at Gigapixel and JPG to RAW with a low light shot of my dog ISO12800 and used the highest settings in the Topaz software and it seems to have created noise? Also, why is the interface so sparse in the Topaz software?

First is a screen grab of the RAW file from Windows explorer
Second is Gigapixel (which is then resized to 1200px wide in PS)
Third is JPG to RAW (which is then resized to 1200px wide in PS)


Beau - RAW Screen Grab.jpg

Beau GigaAI.jpg

Beau JPG to RAW.jpg
 
Messages
7,141
Name
Graham
Edit My Images
No
#38
Here is my edit in LR with absolutely no noise reduction. Obviously the additional editing is going to help with the exposure, contrast etc, but I'm focusing on the noise here, which I never touched in LR.

Beau LR.jpg

Also, now Topaz have my email address to use and abuse :(
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
petersmart
Messages
4,909
Edit My Images
Yes
#39
Pete are those images yours? They have the name Albert Hurwood under them.
Yes I am AH - and have been for many years:LOL:

When I first joined this forum many years ago I was told it was a good idea to have a screen name so I chose one at random.
 
OP
OP
petersmart
Messages
4,909
Edit My Images
Yes
#40
Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I had a bash at Gigapixel and JPG to RAW with a low light shot of my dog ISO12800 and used the highest settings in the Topaz software and it seems to have created noise? Also, why is the interface so sparse in the Topaz software?

First is a screen grab of the RAW file from Windows explorer
Second is Gigapixel (which is then resized to 1200px wide in PS)
Third is JPG to RAW (which is then resized to 1200px wide in PS)


View attachment 237009

View attachment 237007

View attachment 237008
 
Top