Official Talk Leica thread

dancook said:
Because he was using a manual focus, manual aperture lens. Leica-M adapted to SL
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Ahh right, I guess it's more to do with the adapter then rather than just the fact it's a manual lens as the 50mm f1.8 on my OM1 (manual focus, manual aperture, well manual everything ;)) stays wide open until I actually press the shutter (y)
 
snerkler said:
Ahh right, I guess it's more to do with the adapter then rather than just the fact it's a manual lens as the 50mm f1.8 on my OM1 (manual focus, manual aperture, well manual everything ;)) stays wide open until I actually press the shutter (y)
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edit. no i believe I was wrong :D

Yea maybe it's the adapter
 
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Most mirrorless bodies with EVF will gain up the viewfinder if you set them to not show the actual exposure simulation. You're effectively using LiveView all the time with a mirrorless body so the aperture will stop down as you adjust it whereas a DSLR will only stop it down when you take the shot.
 
snerkler said:
Ahh right, I guess it's more to do with the adapter then rather than just the fact it's a manual lens as the 50mm f1.8 on my OM1 (manual focus, manual aperture, well manual everything ;)) stays wide open until I actually press the shutter (y)
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The other point i was going to make which is still valid.

The cameras that the m-lenses are designed for have optical view finders (rangefinders) - so having to open and close the aperture is not necessary.

But yes the adapter doesn't allow control of aperture.
 
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That is correct @dancook. There is no ability to set aperture on M lenses from the SL - you need to do it on the lens.

While @snerkler's OM1 may be manual aperture on the lens, the camera only closes the aperture when firing the shutter. The rest of the time it is open unless you hit a depth-of-field preview button, which will close the aperture (and result in a darkened viewfinder if the aperture is smaller than fully open) so you can see how it looks.

The OM lenses have a little lever on the mount to do this. If you use an OM lens on a Sony A7R with an adaptor, the adaptor has a sliding lever which acts like the depth of field preview and ensures the lens is always at the aperture you set on the barrel, rather than leaving it fully open.

Leica M lenses have no such lever mechanism as they don't need it. Because you look through the rangefinder all the time, you see everything as it is in front of you. The light meter in the camera gives an indication in the viewfinder whether you are under of overexposed, and you adjust accordingly.
 
stevelmx5 said:
Most mirrorless bodies with EVF will gain up the viewfinder if you set them to not show the actual exposure simulation. You're effectively using LiveView all the time with a mirrorless body so the aperture will stop down as you adjust it whereas a DSLR will only stop it down when you take the shot.
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That's a good point - there's probably a setting in the SL somewhere to not show exposure simulation. But it wouldn't make any difference in this case as the lens is set to the aperture you set it to, so that's all the light the live view has to work with.
 
Tobers said:
But it wouldn't make any difference in this case as the lens is set to the aperture you set it to, so that's all the light the live view has to work with.
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Exactly. The only difference the exposure simulation setting makes is to how dark your EVF is when the lens aperture is stopped down as per all mirrorless systems. As the original rangefinder body doesn't use a through-the-lens view, the aperture set on the lens makes no difference on the M (as per your post)
 
stevelmx5 said:
Most mirrorless bodies with EVF will gain up the viewfinder if you set them to not show the actual exposure simulation. You're effectively using LiveView all the time with a mirrorless body so the aperture will stop down as you adjust it whereas a DSLR will only stop it down when you take the shot.
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Can't say I've noticed that before tbh when using the Olympus OMD series, but just tried it with my XT1 and it doesn't stop down until I half press the shutter (so no problem with manual focus) and it makes no difference in this regards whether preview is on or off. If I'm in a dark environment as soon as I half press the shutter (and therefore the aperture stops down) it does get a bit noisy, but it's still not bad at f16 tbh. I guess it depends how dark an environment we're talking ;)

Interesting though that some mirrorless effectively stop down even before half pressing the shutter, I can see that being an issue for MF in extreme darkness.

Edit, just seen the post about Leica not having the lever to keep the aperture open, makes sense then why the light to the VF reduces.
 
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Tobers said:
That's a good point - there's probably a setting in the SL somewhere to not show exposure simulation. But it wouldn't make any difference in this case as the lens is set to the aperture you set it to, so that's all the light the live view has to work with.
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From what I've noticed the SL only shows exposure simulation when you half press the shutter. Not sure what related options there are off my head. This is going to be SL lenses
 
I'll have to test my A6K later now :0) I generally use MF lenses but will test with my AF lenses and find out but I'd assume it's determined by the exposure simulation configuration. If you setup the body to show the expected exposure in the EVF I'd expect it to stop down the lens before you half press to AF.
 
What is a pain, exposure simulation on half press -when the screen goes completely black, because it was going to be flash lit anyway.. and now you can't see your subject ;)
 
stevelmx5 said:
That's where you turn off exposure simulation so you can use a mirrorless body with external lighting :0)
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Whilst I could with my A7S :D I'm not sure I can with my Leica Q, haven't checked the SL
 
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Looks like the SL is the same if this guys' blog is anything to go by;

http://www.wildlightphoto.com/SL/index.html

"So now I get to the 0.5% I'm not thrilled with. The camera's viewfinder defaults to automatic brightness mode, with 'exposure simulation' mode enabled with a half-press of the shutter release or by pressing the exposure simulation mode button on the front of the camera. The viewfinder reverts to the default automatic brightness mode after each exposure.

WTF were they thinking? One of the really huge advantages of the EVF is real-time exposure feedback. Automatic viewfinder brightness in these scenarios makes the bird go so dark I can't see any detail for focussing or for catching the desired posture...

..Very distracting, breaks my concentration, makes focussing and seeing what the bird is doing very difficult. In polite company I'd call the automatic viewfinder brightness feature an 'epic fail', and it can't be disabled. It can be turned off in the Leica M (240), why not the SL? Re-enabling the exposure preview mode after every exposure reminds me of the days before SLRs had instant-return mirrors. This one feature is a deal-breaker for me."
 
stevelmx5 said:
I'll have to test my A6K later now :0) I generally use MF lenses but will test with my AF lenses and find out but I'd assume it's determined by the exposure simulation configuration. If you setup the body to show the expected exposure in the EVF I'd expect it to stop down the lens before you half press to AF.
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With the XT1 you get exposure and white balance preview without half pressing the shutter, but it doesn't show DOF. You do have a DOF preview button but not sure if this then makes the EVF go grainy. Also, the fact that the EVF goes grainy on half press of the shutter makes me think that the lens does stop down on half press, and therefore I would imagine does show DOF. If it does it then makes me wonder why there's a dedicated DOF function if it does this anyway on half press of the shutter :confused:o_O I'll try it later ;)
 
I've just tested my A6K and it has 2 options, Setting Effect ON and Setting Effect OFF. ON is the same as constant exposure simulation so the aperture stops down as soon as you change it meaning the EVF/screen goes darker at narrower apertures. Setting that to OFF changes it to only stopping down the lens after the camera has found focus (with half press).

In a low light situation (small room lit by standard 60w bulb) I find that the focus locks quickly down to F11 then begins to hunt a bit at narrower apertures before locking on.
 
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stevelmx5 said:
The EVF going grainy on half press or DOF button is definitely stopping the lens aperture down. The EVF gains up to maintain a level of brightness.
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Yeah, I understand why the EVF goes grainy, just I don't understand why it has a DOF preview button if it does this anyway on shutter half press

stevelmx5 said:
I've just tested my A6K and it has 2 options, Setting Effect ON and Setting Effect OFF. ON is the same as constant exposure simulation so the aperture stops down as soon as you change it meaning the EVF/screen goes darker at narrower apertures. Setting that to OFF changes it to only stopping down the lens after the camera has found focus (with half press).

In a low light situation (small room lit by standard 60w bulb) I find that the focus locks quickly down to F11 then begins to hunt a bit at narrower apertures before locking on.
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Ahh OK, works different to the Fuji then. With preview off it does not show exposure changes but does go grainy on half press. With preview on it does show the exposure changes but again is not grainy until half press suggesting that the exposure preview is a simulation rather than actually altering the aperture. When you half press it goes grainy but does not alter the actual exposure in the EVF.
 
If your EVF is going grainy that will be because it's gaining up because there's less light, suggesting that the aperture is stopping down. If you look at the front of the lens you should be able to see the blades closing.
 
stevelmx5 said:
If your EVF is going grainy that will be because it's gaining up because there's less light, suggesting that the aperture is stopping down. If you look at the front of the lens you should be able to see the blades closing.
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Lol, I think you're mis-reading what I'm saying ;) For clarification yes I realise this is why it goes grainy ;)
 
the 90-280mm hunts a bit whilst doing portraiture in a bulb lit lounge, using 'field' - maybe I should try 'point'.

There was a lot of gain in the evf, made Louise look like she had terrible blotches on her skin. Think it could have been the white balance that was set actually! so nevermind that

I was happy with the output though.

Louise by dancook1982, on Flickr

[url=https://flic.kr/p/PMUPEG]Louise by dancook1982, on Flickr[/URL]
 
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dancook said:
the 90-280mm hunts a bit whilst doing portraiture in a bulb lit lounge, using 'field' - maybe I should try 'point'.

There was a lot of gain in the evf, made Louise look like she had terrible blotches on her skin. Think it could have been the white balance that was set actually! so nevermind that

I was happy with the output though.

Louise by dancook1982, on Flickr

Louise by dancook1982, on Flickr
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Love the first one Dan, looks like an ad for a high end perfume or something (y)
 
We're these taken using a beauty dish for the lighting?
 
That first mono one is fab! I think the rear light is a bit strong and harsh though - you might want to look at toning it down a bit and bringing it a bit closer to just get a bit of sheen on hair and gentle separation from the background.
 
IMO the designed usage of the preview DOF function (on say a Fuji) is to enable you to check DOF whilst setting up the shot

The thing it (again IMO) actually does that's of benefit is to remove a tiny bit of shutter lag:

What happens when you shoot stopped down with a mirrorless Fuji (and probably other brands, but my experience is mainly fuji)

1: set aperture stopped down
2: camera keeps aperture wide open
3: half press shutter
4: camera stops down to working aperture
5: take shot

Preview DOF will cut out step 4, and the need for step 3

On any camera wearing a mechanical aperture lens, the aperture is always set to the working value, as the blades are physically connected to the aperture ring and can't be 'overridden' with firmware, although turning off 'preview exposure' would probably make a stopped down EVF view brighter
 
Adzman808 said:
IMO the designed usage of the preview DOF function (on say a Fuji) is to enable you to check DOF whilst setting up the shot

The thing it (again IMO) actually does that's of benefit is to remove a tiny bit of shutter lag:

What happens when you shoot stopped down with a mirrorless Fuji (and probably other brands, but my experience is mainly fuji)

1: set aperture stopped down
2: camera keeps aperture wide open
3: half press shutter
4: camera stops down to working aperture
5: take shot

Preview DOF will cut out step 4, and the need for step 3
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Lol, I think you've missed my point too ;) :p I must learn to describe things better :oops: :$
On any camera wearing a mechanical aperture lens, the aperture is always set to the working value, as the blades are physically connected to the aperture ring and can't be 'overridden' with firmware, although turning off 'preview exposure' would probably make a stopped down EVF view brighter
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I assume you're referring to digital cameras here?
 
The Leica SL in low light is a bloody nightmare.. using 90-280mm lens.

Field focus or spot focus - in ...out.....in....out....focus? if not try again.

I tried the 'zone' focus, put the majority of the nine focus squares on this subject, it chose the background time and time again...

L1050161.jpg

This is ISO 5000, f2.8, 1/60th - so it wasn't even that bad..

I can get the shots I need with persistance, but this is beyond belief. I put the field/point over eye, eyebrow, hair line - trying to find contrast for the camera - still it messes it up time and time again.

There is an AF assist lamp, but I've never seen that as an option if you want to avoid annoying your subjects during a steathy candid shot..

Anything I can do? short of selling the SL and buying that damn fuji....lol
 
Could you just accept that it isn't so good in this light and switch to manual focus? Possibly with peaking?
 
woof woof said:
Could you just accept that it isn't so good in this light and switch to manual focus? Possibly with peaking?
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Manual focus telephoto to capture instantaneous laughter that's gone a second later? :D

Whilst I don't want to hold the Leica SL to the same standard of the D750, the D750 never had such trouble..it's frustrating.
 
dancook said:
Manual focus telephoto to capture instantaneous laughter that's gone a second later? :D

Whilst I don't want to hold the Leica SL to the same standard of the D750, the D750 never had such trouble..it's frustrating.
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Welcome to my hell! Ok i have issues going with the Fuji from the D750. I cant help you at all i wanted to acknowledge i feel your pain
 
Nuzik said:
Welcome to my hell! Ok i have issues going with the Fuji from the D750. I cant help you at all i wanted to acknowledge i feel your pain
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it's just my technique though Neil...

I can overcome the AF system... the world will tell me how..
 
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