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  3. It is with great sadness that we announce the passing of a long-standing member, Just Dave.

    Dave Barker was a member of Talk Photography for nearly 10 years, and was a prominent member for most of those.
    A very warm, friendly and enthusiastic member, he spent the largest portion of his time on TP welcoming and helping others.

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  1. S Haworth

    S Haworth Suspended / Banned

    Messages:
    48
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I've been using the SL for a week or two now and have been really impressed with the image quality. I wasn't expecting anything special from the 24 mpixel sensor but it is quite remarkable. It's sharper than my D810 but that may be a function of the inherent blur caused by my old hands. The DR is excellent and the colour is very similar to that of the M9. The 24-90 is nothing special though. Just a decent lens. It does save me carrying 5 M lenses so from that point of view is quite a decent alternative.

    So far, so good.
     
    dancook likes this.
  2. S Haworth

    S Haworth Suspended / Banned

    Messages:
    48
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Thank you.

    These 2 photos were taken about 50 metres from my front door so no real effort involved. They are numbers 2 and 3 of the new camera.
     
  3. dancook

    dancook

    Messages:
    3,117
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I have avoided the 24-90mm in favour of getting the 50mm 1.4 SL at some point this coming year.

    The performance of the 90-280mm is pretty stellar :) I can agree the SL is a great camera!
     
  4. S Haworth

    S Haworth Suspended / Banned

    Messages:
    48
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I have the 50 Lux M version and it works perfectly on the SL but I can't help not wanting to change the lens. The SL and the 24-90 is a supreme walkaround solution but I keep messing with it. I must stop. I must stop. I must stop. I won't though.
     
  5. dancook

    dancook

    Messages:
    3,117
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I have the same 50 lux M, and I do love the results from it. But I can't help it either :D also i feel like I could just take the 50SL anywhere!! rain or rain :D will i though? i don't know...but sure there's the option. The AF will be nice, and the 'look' they market as 'medium format' like sharpness and fall-off
     
    S Haworth likes this.
  6. snerkler

    snerkler

    Messages:
    8,224
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Interesting. Other than AA filters and MP how does the sensor affect sharpness, perceived or otherwise?
     
  7. S Haworth

    S Haworth Suspended / Banned

    Messages:
    48
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    You're talking to the wrong man. My view is simply perceptual. The images look sharper when compared in Capture One. I bet there are technical people on this forum who could baffle us all with good stuff, but none of it will alter the outcome. They'll still look sharper.
     
  8. Tobers

    Tobers

    Messages:
    2,902
    Name:
    Andy
    Edit My Images:
    No
    You could look at the thickness of the cover glass on the sensor. Leicas tend to have pretty think cover glass (especially on the M) which make wide angle lenses work more effectively. This is evidenced through the use of a wide (say 35mm or wider) Leica lens on a Sony A7x versus using one on an M. The Sony has thicker cover glass so has blurring and smearing off centre whereas the M doesn't.

    Other than that, it could be to do with the orientation and use of microlenses on top of the pixels.

    Could just be a better matched sensor/lens combo too.
     
    snerkler likes this.
  9. mid_gen

    mid_gen

    Messages:
    2,024
    Name:
    Chris
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I've got a pre-ASPH 50 Summilux M and it's better than those shots! Someone has a duffer.
     
  10. dancook

    dancook

    Messages:
    3,117
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Oh great, I'd love to see a sample.
     
  11. Nuzik

    Nuzik

    Messages:
    840
    Name:
    Neil
    Edit My Images:
    No
    So would I...
     
  12. dancook

    dancook

    Messages:
    3,117
    Edit My Images:
    No
    50mm 1.4 ASPH Leica-M @ f1.4

    L1150842.JPG

    And just because sharpness can be hard to see without relative comparison, because some people are just in denial, 50mm 1.4 ASPH Leica-M @ f2.8

    L1150865.JPG

    at 1.4 it has a much softer look just as in the article comparison

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vuUyVLPsGOE/WFhKMo_tYMI/AAAAAAAAgSY/Q-2t96hCOCMhjavC5c0wuYQkVbx1qj3QgCLcB/s1600/Screenshot+2016-12-19+21.44.45.png

    By comparison the 50mm 1.4 SL will produce near sharpest results even at 1.4 - which is to be expected for what the lens is all about..

    It is their Zeiss Otus ..
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  13. mid_gen

    mid_gen

    Messages:
    2,024
    Name:
    Chris
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Other half wants some headshots done over the weekend so I'll have a look. Maybe the SL is just that much better and the side by side makes the M look poor by comparison, but I've never thought it looks that soft.
     
    dancook likes this.
  14. dancook

    dancook

    Messages:
    3,117
    Edit My Images:
    No
    SL 90-280mm @ 90mm 2.8 is sharper still, but it's not exactly apples for apples :D

    L1150847.JPG

    sharpness is not everything either, the leica-m lux renders lurrrveeelly :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  15. snerkler

    snerkler

    Messages:
    8,224
    Edit My Images:
    No
    1st doesn't look overly soft to me, just very shallow DOF. Some of the bottom eyelashes and eyelid look sharp at f1.4 imo, at least as sharp as at f2.8.
     
  16. dancook

    dancook

    Messages:
    3,117
    Edit My Images:
    No
    It's as sharp as the eyeball will get at 1.4, I tried a lot of photos.. and i have four crops equally as 'sharp'
     
  17. dancook

    dancook

    Messages:
    3,117
    Edit My Images:
    No
    You saw the SL 50mm 1.4 in comparison? that's the SAME dof.. and you can see the sharpness difference.
     
  18. snerkler

    snerkler

    Messages:
    8,224
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Yeah, I can see it's sharper (assuming there's no user error) I was just saying that the M doesn't look terrible, imo of course ;)
     
  19. dancook

    dancook

    Messages:
    3,117
    Edit My Images:
    No
    no one said it looked terrible, people are just being blatantly obtuse about there being a difference in sharpness.
     
    snerkler likes this.
  20. Swanseajack

    Swanseajack

    Messages:
    3,640
    Name:
    Simon
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I'm not seeing much, if any difference on the eye lashes either. It's on the skin under the eye where the difference is, and more noticeable than I expected at f2.8 over f1.4. I should pay more attention to these things.:D
     
  21. snerkler

    snerkler

    Messages:
    8,224
    Edit My Images:
    No
    It's 2 stops, and when you're starting with wafer thin DOF the difference is quite considerable. Even stopping down from f1.8 to f2.8 there's a marked difference if doing close up portraits.
     
    Swanseajack likes this.
  22. dancook

    dancook

    Messages:
    3,117
    Edit My Images:
    No
    My entire point is that this is a valid comparison of the M vs the SL - since my shots are close to that on the left

    both shot at 1.4, both have same DOF, any softness is the lens

    [​IMG]
     
    snerkler likes this.
  23. Swanseajack

    Swanseajack

    Messages:
    3,640
    Name:
    Simon
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I shoot to much wildlife, as you can be seen by my comment. I have never bothered, or paid much attention to compare two photos side by side like Dan has posted. I just didn't expect that much difference, as f2.8 is still a fast lens so to speak. Interesting(y)
     
    snerkler likes this.
  24. snerkler

    snerkler

    Messages:
    8,224
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Yep markedly sharper. What's the rendering and bokeh like?
     
  25. Nuzik

    Nuzik

    Messages:
    840
    Name:
    Neil
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Both look crap. Have you tried a Fuji?
     
    snerkler likes this.
  26. dancook

    dancook

    Messages:
    3,117
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Probably not as nice as the M :D but then I haven't seen any decent portrait samples to look at, but here's a few other

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  27. snerkler

    snerkler

    Messages:
    8,224
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Dog looks a bit weird, but the last one is nice enough (y)
     
    dancook likes this.
  28. dancook

    dancook

    Messages:
    3,117
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Not a lot of people have the lenses :) and Leica's own images were a bit.... odd
     
    snerkler likes this.
  29. Nuzik

    Nuzik

    Messages:
    840
    Name:
    Neil
    Edit My Images:
    No

    Cauliflower looks off
     
  30. Swanseajack

    Swanseajack

    Messages:
    3,640
    Name:
    Simon
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Dan are these your photos?.........For clarification when I look at the EXIF, the one on the left is taken at f2.4 and the one on the right is f1.4. I'm reading the EXIF for the left photo as, 1/125, f2.4, ISO 100, 50mm and in brackets the lens make/type ( Summilux M or SL 1.4, 50 ASPH)

    Is LR or whatever software reading the lens data wrong due to a manual lens????????????
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  31. dancook

    dancook

    Messages:
    3,117
    Edit My Images:
    No
    No they aren't, I don't have the 50mm SL lens

    The SL camera cannot read the aperture of the M lens.
     
    Swanseajack likes this.
  32. Sassafras

    Sassafras

    Messages:
    108
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Lightroom is guessing.
     
  33. dancook

    dancook

    Messages:
    3,117
    Edit My Images:
    No
    The camera is guessing, and giving LR a random number
     
  34. Sassafras

    Sassafras

    Messages:
    108
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Yes, you are explaining more precisely than me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  35. wakarimasen

    wakarimasen

    Messages:
    269
    Name:
    Roy
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Tobers likes this.
  36. Tobers

    Tobers

    Messages:
    2,902
    Name:
    Andy
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Latest M10 "spy shots" are looking interesting. I love the ISO dial. I want to see ISO, shutter speed and aperture all in a glance without needing to turn the camera on, press any buttons or look at a screen. We'll find out what sensor it has next week, plus more details at the official launch. I suspect it won't have any sort of hybrid viewfinder which is unfortunate but understandable as you can add an EVF on top.
     
    dancook likes this.
  37. jojo90

    jojo90

    Messages:
    531
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Got a great deal on a 'used' M-E with 113 on the shutter. Took it for a spin around Bangkok. Cracking camera that made the process as fun as I'd have hoped. Exactly what I wanted - complete control over every part of the exposure. Yes, other cameras have manual mode, but none have that rangefinder patch and most are overloaded with 'features'.

    Happy I went CCD over CMOS, personally I like the high ISO performance.

    Anyway, here's a few of the snaps:
    [​IMG]
    Tuk Tuk Dreams
    by _Jo Gray, on Flickr

    [​IMG]
    BTS Siam
    by _Jo Gray, on Flickr

    [​IMG]
    Sharks @ Siam
    by _Jo Gray, on Flickr

    [​IMG]
    Bee
    by _Jo Gray, on Flickr

    [​IMG]
    View from our hotel overlooking the Chao Phraya River
    by _Jo Gray, on Flickr
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
  38. jojo90

    jojo90

    Messages:
    531
    Edit My Images:
    No
  39. dancook

    dancook

    Messages:
    3,117
    Edit My Images:
    No
    trevorbray and Michael Little like this.
  40. dancook

    dancook

    Messages:
    3,117
    Edit My Images:
    No
    still processing, and in between i'm shooting another portrait session with my wife, she's in 'make up' right now :D busy sunday

    [​IMG]L1160499 by dancook1982, on Flickr

    [​IMG]L1160563 by dancook1982, on Flickr
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
    Ruffmeister and trevorbray like this.

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