Official Talk Leica thread

Is it possible to identify this old Leica from this photo or do I need more information? It belongs to my daughters partner, he says it "doesn't work" and wants to get a rough idea of it's value before getting quotes to fix it.
Thanks for looking.

50626175587_f417019b81_c.jpg

A shot of the top plate might be helpful..
 
Thanks Trevor, there is one problem I can see, the letters DRP engraved on the top stand for Deutsches Reichspatent which is a Nazi era marking.
The serial number fits into the 1951 batch. Possibly, the casings were new old stock already pressed with "D R P" as well as the other markings.
 
The serial number fits into the 1951 batch. Possibly, the casings were new old stock already pressed with "D R P" as well as the other markings.
Interesting, I suppose that in 1951 raw materials were at a premium in Germany so they would have been "scavenging" for anything available.
Slightly related, I have a 1951 Contax IIa and there is an amazing story of how the Zeiss engineers fled to the west from the Russian occupation with all their blueprints and designs in their heads being unable to smuggle them out physically.
Thanks for the help people.
 
The DRP is the German Right Party which was formed in 1950, I think. A lot of Leicas had that marked on to them.
 
Hi, D.R.P. stands for Deutsches Reichs-Patent (not Deutsche Reichspartei).

After WW2 Germany lost all its IP (Intellectual Property) acquired up to 1945, which was taken over and used by the Allies.

After the formation of the Federal Republic of Germany, new patents were called D.B.P. (Deutsches Bundespatent).

German pre-1945 IP was used by Russia, for example, which explains their Leica and ZEISS copies.

The father in-law of a friend worked for ZEISS Jena (East-Germany), and fled to ZEISS Oberkochen, where he acquired a few patents, again...

Patents are ambivalent: on the one side you obtain the exclusive right to use them commercially, on the other hand they make your findings public,
and others can work around your invention and use your slightly modified IP.

(Which is why important inventions are often not patented. (I know this from my former job ---) )
 
Slightly related, I have a 1951 Contax IIa and there is an amazing story of how the Zeiss engineers fled to the west from the Russian occupation with all their blueprints and designs in their heads being unable to smuggle them out physically.
The even more interesting thing about the Contax is that the prewar model II and III long outlived the postwar IIa and IIIa. The West German versions were introduced around 1951 and ceased production in 1961; whereas the renamed but more or less identical Kiev IVa and IV derivatives of the II and III continued in production well into the 1980s, aquiring a few cosmetic changes along the way...

Kiev camera in ERC GH2 P1320261.JPG
 
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Hi, D.R.P. stands for Deutsches Reichs-Patent (not Deutsche Reichspartei).

After WW2 Germany lost all its IP (Intellectual Property) acquired up to 1945, which was taken over and used by the Allies.

After the formation of the Federal Republic of Germany, new patents were called D.B.P. (Deutsches Bundespatent).

German pre-1945 IP was used by Russia, for example, which explains their Leica and ZEISS copies.

The father in-law of a friend worked for ZEISS Jena (East-Germany), and fled to ZEISS Oberkochen, where he acquired a few patents, again...

Patents are ambivalent: on the one side you obtain the exclusive right to use them commercially, on the other hand they make your findings public,
and others can work around your invention and use your slightly modified IP.

(Which is why important inventions are often not patented. (I know this from my former job ---) )
I thought someone who knew what they were talking about would put us right!
 
Hi, a brief look at the ZEISS Distagon 1,4/35 and the ZEISS Biogon 2/35 on the Leica M9 at f 8:


Distagon :

L1004014_DxO-z35d-8.jpg



Biogon :

L1004016_DxO-z35b-8.jpg



Distagon :

L1004014_DxO-z35d-8-c.jpg



Biogon :

L1004016_DxO-z35b-8-c.jpg



Distagon :

L1004014_DxO-z35d-8-c-m.jpg



Biogon :

L1004016_DxO-z35b-8-c-m.jpg



Distagon :

L1004014_DxO-z35d-8-c-r.jpg



Biogon :

L1004016_DxO-z35b-8-c-r.jpg
 
I seem to recall that Leica had a ‘Oskar Schindler‘ type thing going on whilst the Nazis were in power with as many people being helped as possible.
 
Thanks Immo! That deserves a copy/paste

Paula H Nachman 2nd September 2020 from Facebook

View: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/link.php?url=https://www.facebook.com/paula.nachman/posts/10157424316917231


LEICA AND THE JEWS

The Leica is the pioneer 35mm camera. It is a German product - precise, minimalist, and utterly efficient.

Behind its worldwide acceptance as a creative tool was a family-owned, socially oriented firm that, during the Nazi era, acted with uncommon grace, generosity and modesty. E. Leitz Inc., designer and manufacturer of Germany's most famous photographic product, saved its Jews.

And Ernst Leitz II, the steely-eyed Protestant patriarch who headed the closely held firm as the Holocaust loomed across Europe , acted in such a way as to earn the title, "the photography industry's Schindler."

As soon as Adolf Hitler was named chancellor of Germany in 1933, Ernst Leitz II began receiving frantic calls from Jewish associates, asking for his help in getting them and their families out of the country. As Christians, Leitz and his family were immune to Nazi Germany's Nuremberg laws, which restricted the movement of Jews and limited their professional activities.

To help his Jewish workers and colleagues, Leitz quietly established what has become known among historians of the Holocaust as "the Leica Freedom Train," a covert means of allowing Jews to leave Germany in the guise of Leitz employees being assigned overseas.

Employees, retailers, family members, even friends of family members were "assigned" to Leitz sales offices in France, Britain, Hong Kong and the United States, Leitz's activities intensified after the Kristallnacht of November 1938, during which synagogues and Jewish shops were burned across Germany.

Before long, German "employees" were disembarking from the ocean liner Bremen at a New York pier and making their way to the Manhattan office of Leitz Inc., where executives quickly found them jobs in the photographic industry.

Each new arrival had around his or her neck the symbol of freedom - a new Leica camera.

The refugees were paid a stipend until they could find work. Out of this migration came designers, repair technicians, salespeople, marketers and writers for the photographic press.

Keeping the story quiet The "Leica Freedom Train" was at its height in 1938 and early 1939, delivering groups of refugees to New York every few weeks. Then, with the invasion of Poland on Sept. 1, 1939, Germany closed its borders.

By that time, hundreds of endangered Jews had escaped to America, thanks to the Leitzes' efforts. How did Ernst Leitz II and his staff get away with it?

Leitz, Inc. was an internationally recognized brand that reflected
credit on the newly resurgent Reich. The company produced cameras, range-finders and other optical systems for the German military. Also, the Nazi government desperately needed hard currency from abroad, and Leitz's single biggest market for optical goods was the United States.

Even so, members of the Leitz family and firm suffered for their good works. A top executive, Alfred Turk, was jailed for working to help Jews and freed only after the payment of a large bribe.

Leitz's daughter, Elsie Kuhn-Leitz, was imprisoned by the Gestapo after she was caught at the border, helping Jewish women cross into Switzerland . She eventually was freed but endured rough treatment in the course of questioning. She also fell under suspicion when she attempted to improve the living conditions of 700 to 800 Ukrainian slave laborers, all of them women, who had been assigned to work in the plant during the 1940s.

(After the war, Kuhn-Leitz received numerous honors for her humanitarian efforts, among them the Officier d'honneur des Palms Academic from France in 1965 and the Aristide Briand Medal from the European Academy in the 1970s.)

Why has no one told this story until now? According to the late Norman Lipton, a freelance writer and editor, the Leitz family wanted no publicity for its heroic efforts. Only after the last member of the Leitz family was dead did the "Leica Freedom Train" finally come to light.

It is now the subject of a book, "The Greatest Invention of the Leitz
Family: The Leica Freedom Train," by Frank Dabba Smith, a California-born Rabbi currently living in England.

Thank you for reading the above, and if you feel inclined as I did to pass it along to others, please do so. It only takes a few minutes.

Memories of the righteous should live on.
 
Hi, Jugendstil architecture in Ennepetal-Milspe/D ... (Leica M9 - ZEISS Distagon 4/18 f 8, crop, level-gauge) :



L1004059_DxO-z18-8-c.jpg



(I took this pic across the street. The Distagon was not wide enough, so I had to hold the camera vertically. I should have brought a 15mm lens.

In dubio pro latitudine, the Ancients might have said ... ( ;) ) --- )
 

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Hi, have a nice weekend ! :) ... (Leica M9 - VOIGTLÄNDER Ultra Wide-Heliar 5,6/12 asph. screw-mount, f 5,6 ; crop) :



L1003897_DxO-v12-56-c.jpg



(For metering I used the M9 body (140mm length) ... ---)
 

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Hi, in the park at Wiesbaden-Biebrich/D ... (Leica M9 - Elmarit-M 2,8/90 E46 f 2,8):



L1003928_DxO-L902-28.jpg



L1003926_DxO-L902-28.jpg



(Quite interesting, how the background is rendered differently, when one moves closer ... --- )
 
Hi, the palace at Biebrich/D ... (Leica M9 - VOIGTLÄNDER Ultra Wide-Heliar 5,6/12 asph. screw-mount, level gauge; f 8 ; crop) :



L1003915_DxO-v12-8-c.jpg



(The handling of this lens is not easy on the M9. - But it is very compact, and I am happy with the IQ.)
 

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I actually took the m9 out yesterday (and will do again today) for the first time since July.

I’d sorta forgotten just how special the pictures from it are. Well not all the pictures, but the ones that play to its strengths
 
some m9 pictures from today

there was to be more, but the forum says they're large and I'm a bit too hungover to give a f**k about resizing them right now (it was 20 deg here today, so when the 1pm curfew/lockdown started I ended up drinking a whole bottle of wine on the balcony, now several hours later I feel like complete crap - damn you mid life alcohol tolerance, damn you)


L1020634.LR.jpg



L1020640.LR.jpg

L1020653.LR.jpg

L1020674.LR.jpg
 
some m9 pictures from today

there was to be more, but the forum says they're large and I'm a bit too hungover to give a f**k about resizing them right now (it was 20 deg here today, so when the 1pm curfew/lockdown started I ended up drinking a whole bottle of wine on the balcony, now several hours later I feel like complete crap - damn you mid life alcohol tolerance, damn you)


View attachment 300567



View attachment 300568

View attachment 300569

View attachment 300570

Cracking colours.
 
Having spent longer than is healthily sane trying to decide between C1 and LR for my PP tasks, I've decided to stick with LR.

This is a bit of shame because C1 is faster and has better tools (a couple of which I actually use :D) and cost me a lot of money!

C1 also makes a sharper image, and has far, far superior noise reduction.

The sad thing is that I just prefer the end result with Leica and LR, the files from LR just have a, well to me at least, an intangible charm and quality that easily gets lost with the superior digital editing abilities of C1 (it's almost like adobe and Leica have some sort of partnership and that C1 and Leica f**king hate each other... oh yeah right)

LR also has a few other sweeteners... the inbuilt lens profiles actually do something, they can be applied automatically when LR sees that I've used a particular lens from the EXIF, and also LR has lens profiles for my non-Leica Zeiss and Voigtlander glass too. C1 manages none of these things.

Having used the M9 for a bit this week I'd almost forgotten a) what an antiquated digital camera it is, and b) just how much I love, love, LOVE the M9 DNGs.

I mean they're not even that good :D the colours are way off neutral, red bleeds into magenta, caucasian folk often look like sunburnt lipstick wearers, blue drops off into cyan and green is often over saturated, never quite finding a true natural balance between pure green and yellowy-green.

But these M9 files (as heaps of blog posts and forum message boards attest too) just have a charm and delight that far outweighs their inferior-to-a-smartphone 8-9 stops of DR, the colours may be about as believable a low budget Sy-Fy movie, but one is inspired to believe. Finally the M9 is possessed of an acuity to the image when viewed at 'fit to screen' size that most other cameras need zooming into 100% to see.

By all accounts the M9 "look" is such a thing that Leica went out of their way to get the M10 images to replicate it.

And doesn't that sound like just the ticket? The M10 - all the modern good bits from the M240 (plus more besides) but with the charm of the M9 files.

Trouble is I don't have an M10, nor any budget to get one any time soon...

I also like that my M240 has a massive battery and a few things that Leica deleted from the M10 only to re-implement in the M10-P and R

Making files from Camera 'A' look like they came from Camera 'B' is IMHO a fools game, this particular fool (me!) learnt that with the X-Pro1 and X-Pro2

That said...

It wouldn't break my heart if my 240 files had some of the look and feel of the M9 files...

So I decided to try and make a preset that vaguely made the two sets of images look a little closer to one another*.

I did it by comparing a ton of my images shot with each camera, trying to identify what made an M9 file look like an M9 file, specifically in regards to what I liked about M9 files.

This morning was the acid test...

I took both cameras and one lens out, and shot the same things with each.

Came home and imported them all into LR. Edited each set (ie each camera's set) without referring to the other's then compared the exported jpegs

Some results below... quite pleased with this, (even if I say so myself) not, can't and never will be exactly the same of course but as a starting point to edit my M240 pictures (in LR) I'm pleased with this.**

I'll put some notes below the image


comps.JPG



*Yes some chap on the internet did this whole M240-M9 thing already. Good results too IMO. But things change, LR got updates and the M240 got FW updates. His advice of dropping the 240's exposure a stop and warming up the WB simply doesn't work anymore. The 240 is usually a darker exposure than the M9 (when the camera choses, or even if the SS is the same... different ISO at work I think... or different metadata that LR responds too differently) and also the 240 usually runs at 500-700 kelvin more WB.

**Having never quite got this game to work on the Fujis, I'm feeling really quite pleased that I've had better success doing it on the Leicas
 
Hi, thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences, and for the work you put into it. (y)

The M9 files have their charm, and I have never seen an article on the net (from a trustworthy source) stating that the M10 files are better.

Most agree that they look different, preferring the M9 files. Even the gentleman I bought my second M9 from seems to regret his move to the M10.

Life is easy for me. I can buy any camera I want. But I stay with my iron ladies (I mean my M9s ( ;) ) (for the time being)) ...

(Another reason: from my IT days I still carry these high availability concepts in my head, meaning with two M9s I always have a backup ... ---)
 
Hi, thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences, and for the work you put into it. (y)

The M9 files have their charm, and I have never seen an article on the net (from a trustworthy source) stating that the M10 files are better.

Most agree that they look different, preferring the M9 files. Even the gentleman I bought my second M9 from seems to regret his move to the M10.

Life is easy for me. I can buy any camera I want. But I stay with my iron ladies (I mean my M9s ( ;) ) (for the time being)) ...

(Another reason: from my IT days I still carry these high availability concepts in my head, meaning with two M9s I always have a backup ... ---)

If anyone has any specific questions I'm happy to help.... not sure how M240 owners are on here wanting it to look more 'M9-a-like' (it's probably more M10-a-like really!

Long story short, the M9 produces a much more textbook tone curve (looks like a mountain) and the M240 makes a tone curve more like a ski slope.

On the 240 push as much data as you can into the middle of the histogram, use the LR tone curve tool to add as much midtone contrast as you can, then drop the WB to as cool as you can get away with.

Afterwards simply butcher the green/red/blue hues and add clarity to taste :D

(feel free to try this on your Sony Immo, I'm curious....)

I think Leica were just trying to give the M10 m9-esque colours... the native tone curves seem quite different. Although if the DRP sample M10 DNGs are indicative, then using 'embedded' in LR gets a far more M9 looking picture than using adobe standard.

Whether or not one can live with 'just' an M9 I think depends on what one shoots and if one has any other cameras better suited to the rather long list of things that are very difficult to shoot with a rangefinder.

The M9 charm is indeed very charming, and for want of a better analogy I suspect it just has perfect mechanic grip where the end experience is somehow greater than the spec sheet suggests

Cheers!
 
Hi, have a nice weekend ... (SONY A7R2 - ZEISS Distagon 1,4/35 f 1,4; Voigtländer Adapter) :



DSC00941-a7r22-z35d-14.jpg



(I must confess that I only take RAWs (DNG) with my Leicas. For the SONYs, and how I use them, the JPEGs are O.K. The same goes for the NIKON D800. --- )
 
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