One for the Intrepid users

Peter B

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I know that a few on here have Intrepid 5x4 and 10x8 cameras, but many seem to move on to more expensive makes of 5x4 quite quickly. While I understand that Intrepids are made to a pricepoint rather than engineering excellence, they do seem to be quite regularly replaced/upgraded to improve them and I'm not sure whether any users change to a newer model rather than a more expensive make?

My main interest is in the 5x7 version which seems to have only one online review, and that wasn't greatly positive. It's only 1.5kg/3.2lb compared to my Kodak wholeplate with halfplate back coming in at 4.6kg/ 10lb+, so that's a big difference in portability for me. I know that others have chosen more expensive 5x7 cameras in preference to the Intrepid, but I'm not sure how heavy some of these are and there's generally a big price difference as well.

I'd be happy with any thoughts, either publicly or privately, since I'm not looking to be anti-Intrepid in any way.
 
I've got an MPP 5x4, I don't know the weight and unfortunately the public weighbridge closed many years ago so I probably never will.

:coat:
 
They’re decent cameras if you’re slow and methodical, only reason I moved my 5x4 and 10x8 on was that I tend to work on the faster end (5 to 10 mins for a portrait) so my other cameras with sturdier builds were better for my use case. The closest thing to the 10x8 in terms of weight is literally 11x the price (Chamonix Alpinist X). They’re a little springy and never truly feel totally locked down like my Linhof/Walker Titan, but they’re very light and I always managed to get perfectly sharp results from them.

Mine were problem free but two accessories I bought from them (a 3D printed Sinar to Linhof board and a fresnel screen for the 10x8) were defective, Intrepid were quick to sort it out - in the case of the fresnel it was several months after purchase as I noticed they had a new version of the fresnel that illuminated the ground glass better (the one I bought originally was pretty rubbish), they simply sent out a replacement one when I enquired about the differences.
 
I have had two Intrepid 4x5s - a Mark II and a Mark III.

On my first proper outing with the Mark II, the tripod attachment screw snapped whilst I was tightening it. The remains of the screw were stuck in the camera base and I had to send the whole camera back to Intrepid who changed the camera base (at no cost to me),

Later the Mark II was crushed after I fell and landed on my back with the camera in a rucksack. No fault of the supplier and any wooden camera would have been at risk in the same situation.

I replaced the camera, at my cost, with a Mark III which included the ability to swing the back standard and also to tilt the back standard backwards. I'm not certain but I think that the latest model doesn't have these rear standard movements. Omitting them is understandable because it is very difficult to prevent the movements being applied accidentally. The action of fitting the film holder can provide enough force to accidentally tilt the rear standard forward, spoiling your carefully-tuned focus.

Other issues I have experienced include:

a) The screws that hold the bar that moves down to keep the lens board in place have a habit of coming loose, and landing on the ground. On one occasion they disappeared in the grass and the camera was unusable whilst waiting for replacements to be sent (Intrepid did send them, again at no charge to me). I need to carry an allen key to regularly tighten the screws up. The Mark II model actually had a much better screw with a knurled end that could be finger-tightened without tools.

b) The screws that hold a metal plate to the baseboard came loose without warning, leaving no means of attaching the tripod. (Later versions of the camera may not have this plate). Intrepid once again sent me replacement screws without charge, although it was a little worrrying that they had to send two different types of screws because they no longer had a reference Mark III camera (or even the drawings) to check which was the right type.

c) One of the graflock clips on the back broke and was replaced by Intrepid, again free of charge.

d) The knobs on the front standard, which control rise and fall and tilt, got worn after a while and became more difficult to tighten. These were later replaced (free of charge, and without me asking) when the camera was returned to have new bellows fitted.

e) I discovered that the bellows were full of holes when the camera was 3 years old. Whilst the camera was well out of warranty, I was suprised that the bellows deteriorated so quickly. I have cameras over a hundred years old that have perfectly sound bellows. The Mark III did not have user-interchangeable bellows (the latest version does) so I had to send the camera back to have new bellows fitted. The cost was reasonable and the turnaround quick.

More generally, the light weight of the camera is both a strength and a weakness. Easy to carry round but also easy to blow around in the wind, easy to damage, and difficult to keep the standards in the positions you set.

I could have upgraded my Mark III to use the base introduced by the Mark IV, but I chose not to spend the money as I didn't want to throw any more money at the camera and I wasn't convinced that changing the base would solve the problems I was having.

I have now relegated the Intrepid to being used when light weight is the criteria that overrules everything else. So if I was walking five miles with the camera or up a steep hill I would certainly take it. But if I'm walking only a mile from the car I'll take my Horseman monorail instead, even though the camera is about five times as heavy and also needs a more sturdy tripod.

Finally, it is true that Intrepid have been responsive when I have experienced problems, and sent new parts either free of charge, or in the case of the bellows, at a reasonable cost. But I just wish that the camera was more robust in the first place and didn't have these problems.
 
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They’re decent cameras if you’re slow and methodical, only reason I moved my 5x4 and 10x8 on was that I tend to work on the faster end (5 to 10 mins for a portrait) so my other cameras with sturdier builds were better for my use case. The closest thing to the 10x8 in terms of weight is literally 11x the price (Chamonix Alpinist X). They’re a little springy and never truly feel totally locked down like my Linhof/Walker Titan, but they’re very light and I always managed to get perfectly sharp results from them.

Mine were problem free but two accessories I bought from them (a 3D printed Sinar to Linhof board and a fresnel screen for the 10x8) were defective, Intrepid were quick to sort it out - in the case of the fresnel it was several months after purchase as I noticed they had a new version of the fresnel that illuminated the ground glass better (the one I bought originally was pretty rubbish), they simply sent out a replacement one when I enquired about the differences.
Thanks, that's useful. Slow and somewhat methodical is pretty much me as I mainly shoot landscapes and other things that don't move! It's the "springy" part that's a bit more of a worry, but I suppose I could be careful with that aspect.
 
I have had two Intrepid 4x5s - a Mark II and a Mark III.

On my first proper outing with the Mark II, the tripod attachment screw snapped whilst I was tightening it. The remains of the screw were stuck in the camera base and I had to send the whole camera back to Intrepid who changed the camera base (at no cost to me),

Later the Mark II was crushed after I fell and landed on my back with the camera in a rucksack. No fault of the supplier and any wooden camera would have been at risk in the same situation.

I replaced the camera, at my cost, with a Mark III which included the ability to swing the back standard and also to tilt the back standard backwards. I'm not certain but I think that the latest model doesn't have these rear standard movements. Omitting them is understandable because it is very difficult to prevent the movements being applied accidentally. The action of fitting the film holder can provide enough force to accidentally tilt the rear standard forward, spoiling your carefully-tuned focus.

Other issues I have experienced include:

a) The screws that hold the bar that moves down to keep the lens board in place have a habit of coming loose, and landing on the ground. On one occasion they disappeared in the grass and the camera was unusable whilst waiting for replacements to be sent (Intrepid did send them, again at no charge to me). I need to carry an allen key to regularly tighten the screws up. The Mark II model actually had a much better screw with a knurled end that could be finger-tightened without tools.

b) The screws that hold a metal plate to the baseboard came loose without warning, leaving no means of attaching the tripod. (Later versions of the camera may not have this plate). Intrepid once again sent me replacement screws without charge, although it was a little worrrying that they had to send two different types of screws because they no longer had a reference Mark III camera (or even the drawings) to check which was the right type.

c) One of the graflock clips on the back broke and was replaced by Intrepid, again free of charge.

d) The knobs on the front standard, which control rise and fall and tilt, got worn after a while and became more difficult to tighten. These were later replaced (free of charge, and without me asking) when the camera was returned to have new bellows fitted.

e) I discovered that the bellows were full of holes when the camera was 3 years old. Whilst the camera was well out of warranty, I was suprised that the bellows deteriorated so quickly. I have cameras over a hundred years old that have perfectly sound bellows. The Mark III did not have user-interchangeable bellows (the latest version does) so I had to send the camera back to have new bellows fitted. The cost was reasonable and the turnaround quick.

More generally, the light weight of the camera is both a strength and a weakness. Easy to carry round but also easy to blow around in the wind, easy to damage, and difficult to keep the standards in the positions you set.

I could have upgraded my Mark III to use the base introduced by the Mark IV, but I chose not to spend the money as I didn't want to throw any more money at the camera and I wasn't convinced that changing the base would solve the problems I was having.

I have now relegated the Intrepid to being used when light weight is the criteria that overrules everything else. So if I was walking five miles with the camera or up a steep hill I would certainly take it. But if I'm walking only a mile from the car I'll take my Horseman monorail instead, even though the camera is about five times as heavy and also needs a more sturdy tripod.

Finally, it is true that Intrepid have been responsive when I have experienced problems, and sent new parts either free of charge, or in the case of the bellows, at a reasonable cost. But I just wish that the camera was more robust in the first place and didn't have these problems.
Dear me Kevin, what a tale of woe! I really appreciate the time you've taken to write this comprehensive reply, and I think you've probably made my mind up for me. Many thanks. (y)
 
I'm not sure I'm of much help for the next few months or so, but I have recently ordered the latest version of the 8x10. I had initially thought about a Chamonix/Canham, but the prices are just too high for a first time user of this particular format. If it turns out I really enjoy this format, I may reconsider, and the experience I have with the intrepid will no doubt form a part of whether I stick with it in the long term or not. Part of me is keen to self repair any issues I find with the camera, but then again I don't want to be in a position where intrepid then refuse to help.
 
I'm not sure I'm of much help for the next few months or so, but I have recently ordered the latest version of the 8x10. I had initially thought about a Chamonix/Canham, but the prices are just too high for a first time user of this particular format. If it turns out I really enjoy this format, I may reconsider, and the experience I have with the intrepid will no doubt form a part of whether I stick with it in the long term or not. Part of me is keen to self repair any issues I find with the camera, but then again I don't want to be in a position where intrepid then refuse to help.
Thanks Jonathan, so what colour of bellows did you go for?

20181006_214038-web.jpg
 
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It's little things on the intrepids, no bag bellows option, struggle to fit wider lenses, set up ease with having to screw the front standard on when first setting up or changing focal lengths, try that on a cold blustery day.

I own an intrepid 5x7, plan to mainly use it with my 6x17 back, BUT, my favorite lens is a 75mm, that will cover 6x17, but no way will the intrepid accept it.

4x5 I went for one of the mid range, new build cameras, the Chroma Carbon Adventurer, light and portable and easy to set up, just wish Steve would put the optional 5x7 back into production.
 
I have a black Intrepid 5x4 and a Mk2 10x8. To me, the advantage is the light weight, and with the 5x4, small size.

I have two other 5x4 cameras, a Walker Titan SF and a Canham DLC. The latter two are larger, heavier, and have longer, interchangeable bellows. There are difference between the 3 in terms of ease of setup, but the size and weight of the Intrepid makes it earn its place.

I prefer longer to shorter focal lengths, and this does have some limitations with the Intrepid. The 10x8 will just cope with my 450mm lens, whereas my Canham MQC (5x7) will take my 610mm lens(es). My Canham 10x8 has 36" bellows, which means it can cope with everything I have.

For my purposes, the Intrepids are justified by the weight, and, dare I say, comparative disposability - I feel less anxiety about the camera's safety.

I looked at a 5x7 in their workshop before they went on sale. I did consider getting one, but as I already had a 5x7 camera that suited me, I left it. I gave a comparative run down on Canham MQC and Gandolfi Variant 5x7 in a PM to Peter a while back. If that's of wider interest here to others, either Peter or I could copy/paste it here.
 
It's little things on the intrepids, no bag bellows option, struggle to fit wider lenses, set up ease with having to screw the front standard on when first setting up or changing focal lengths, try that on a cold blustery day.

I own an intrepid 5x7, plan to mainly use it with my 6x17 back, BUT, my favorite lens is a 75mm, that will cover 6x17, but no way will the intrepid accept it.

4x5 I went for one of the mid range, new build cameras, the Chroma Carbon Adventurer, light and portable and easy to set up, just wish Steve would put the optional 5x7 back into production.
Thanks Karl, that's useful info. Would I be right that thinking you couldn't fit the Intrepid 4x5 recessed board onto/through a 5x7 one to allow you to fit the 75mm, or is it a compressed bellows problem?
 
Afterthought. Intrepid are very close to where I live. I haven't walked there (they are on a bus route that passes my house), but based on the map it would probably take 40 mins or so. So in the event of problems, it's easy to pop in. Not so easy with Keith Canham in the States...
 
Thanks Karl, that's useful info. Would I be right that thinking you couldn't fit the Intrepid 4x5 recessed board onto/through a 5x7 one to allow you to fit the 75mm, or is it a compressed bellows problem?
The 5x7 doesn't use the same lens boards as the 4x5, as far as I am aware there isn't a 5x7 recessed lens board. If there was it would need to be quite deep too and I would still struggle to get much movement. I am toying with removing the bellows and getting custom bellows to make a set of combination bellows for it.
 
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