1. Darkhorse

    Darkhorse

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    11
    Name:
    Peter
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    Yes
    Hey everyone.

    Being new to all this I ordered a second hand Canon 350D recently which was meant to come with an 18-55 kit lens. I only really looked properly at the numbers now and it appears that they have sent me a 38-76 mm f4.5-5.6. Basically I want to ask you guys if I have been ripped off? The whole thing was £90 which I thought was okay but is it worth making a fuss over and saying that they sent me the wrong lens? How much will the difference make to a complete noob such as myself. I think I read that the lens I have now is more of a zoom lens? But I honestly am a bit unsure.

    Cheers
     
  2. PaulButler

    PaulButler

    Messages:
    3,275
    Name:
    Paul
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    No
    No idea if you have been ripped off but that is not an overly useful focal length range on a crop camera, the 18-55 is far more useful imo/e.
     
  3. AndrewFlannigan

    AndrewFlannigan

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    118
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    If you made a copy of the advert and put it on this thread then people can advise you. Without knowing what the advert said we can't offer anything useful.
     
  4. Twigman

    Twigman

    Messages:
    206
    Name:
    Ian
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    No
  5. Darkhorse

    Darkhorse

    Messages:
    11
    Name:
    Peter
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    Yes
    Here is the camera that was advertised. And what I received.
     

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  6. AndrewFlannigan

    AndrewFlannigan

    Messages:
    118
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    No
    When you click on "Available from these sellers." the actual offer is listed in the second column under "condition". Have you got the text for that?
     
  7. tijuana taxi

    tijuana taxi

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    9,525
    Name:
    Rich
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    Send it back, that lens is less than useful, camera is ancient too.
    Think you can do better for the same or a little bit money
     
  8. Nikon photographer

    Nikon photographer

    Messages:
    58
    Name:
    Geoff Brown
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Although I'm not a Canon user, I would send it back, they haven't sent you the advertised product, the 18-55 basically gives you a 28-80 in full frame terms, the 38-76 basically gives you the equivalent of a 60-120, although you're gaining on the top end, you're losing a hell of a lot on the side angle end, I can't comment on the quality difference between the two lenses, as I'm not familiar with them.
     
  9. hashcake

    hashcake

    Messages:
    5,065
    Name:
    Darran, Daz or ****
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    Yes
    As already said send it back and get a refund.
    If you have a look here www.mpb.com they sell the 450D for £94 and it will have a 3 month warranty.
    They also sell various versions of the Canon 18-55 lens from £34.
    If you want some feedback about mpb just ask around here, lots of members have sold to and bough from mpb over the years.

    That's a very cheap entry into the world of DSLR cameras, I paid £699 in 2008 for a 450D with a 18-55 IS lens :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  10. Darkhorse

    Darkhorse

    Messages:
    11
    Name:
    Peter
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    Yes
    Oh no :( I think you are right "COMES WITH CANON 35-80MM LENS, CHARGER, BATTERY AND COMPACT FLASH CARD (USED 350D'S USUALLY HAVE SOME PEELING ON THE HANDGRIP"
    I completely didnt see that part :( I just assumed it was an 18-55mm as stated in that generic description.
     
  11. Jimi-the-fish

    Jimi-the-fish

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    308
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    No
    You could argue that you didn't get the advertised 35-80mm lens either...
     
  12. Darkhorse

    Darkhorse

    Messages:
    11
    Name:
    Peter
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    That is true. He messaged me back saying "There is almost no difference to the 38-76mm lens. However, if you would like me to replace for 35-80mm, I will do so". Which is of course not what I meant. It seems unfair that the generic message advertises something different to what he was selling. Seeing as this would rarely happen with any other product I feel like I have been swindled or something :(
     
  13. andy1868

    andy1868

    Messages:
    1,208
    Name:
    Andy
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    An awkward situation, while it wasn’t what was advertised on the main description they could argue that you hadn’t read the fine print of their listing.

    I would perhaps ask them if they were willing to swap it for an 18-55, and if not, eBay the lens you have and buy a cheap 18-55 from MPB or another reputable dealer.

    Don’t let this get you down though, just get out there and start taking photographs!
     
  14. hashcake

    hashcake

    Messages:
    5,065
    Name:
    Darran, Daz or ****
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    Yes
    Just tell him you are not happy and request a refund, if he refuses to then contact Amazon
     
    Peter Drought and Phil V like this.
  15. Phil V

    Phil V

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    20,955
    Name:
    Phil
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    No
    This^
    It’s simply not honest to advertise one thing and then change the offer in the small print.
     
    Peter Drought, Matt- and gremlin16 like this.
  16. Teflon-Mike

    Teflon-Mike

    Messages:
    948
    Name:
    Mike
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    Yes
    You have bopught a pretty cheap enrty level camera, that was when new still a pretty cheap entry level camera....

    The 38-76mm lens? Yup, well, dating back to '95, that was probably the 'kit' lens for one of the then reletively cheap entry level film SLR's, before widgetal was invented.

    In days of yore, on a 35mm film camera the 'standard' lens had a focal length 'aproximately' the diagnonal length of the film frame... 'about' 50mm..for 35mm film; and that is what most manual-focus 35mm SLRs shipped with. Same era 'compact' cameras usually shipped with a fixed, non changeable 35mm lens; towards the wide end, and towards the close of of the 35mm film era, the 'kit' lens SLR's shipped with, was more often a 'zoom' lens, in the range covering 'standard' with a bit either side to mild wide and mild tele... something like the Vivitar 35-70 on my OM10 or the Tammy 28-80 on my OM4.. sounds like your 38-78 is one of those late film era 'full-frame' lenses

    The 'normal' angle of view on a crop-sensor Digital-SLR like wot you got, is 'around' 30-40mm.. about 35mm ish...

    Means that that lens is skewed a tad towards the tele end and lacks the wide... it probably isn't a wonderful grade of lens as an older AF era 'kit' (if thats what, as I suspect, it is) BUT optically, it is possibly a slightly better lens than the standard kit that shipped with your camera

    Lenses for larger format cameras have to be bigger; means more glass to grind, and they tend to be more expensive to make to the same level of precission; so a lot of old 35mm film era lenses offer wonderful optical quility on smaller sensor widgetal cameras.. THEN the smaller 'sensor' something like 18x24mm oblong, instead of 24x36mm oblong, 'crops' the edge of the image projected by the lens, and in so doing an AWFUL lot of the possible distortion and edge abhoration that lens would give on the camera it was designed for.

    This is why folk shooting old film era lenses on Crop-Sensor digital or even more on Micro-Four-Thirds format digital cameras often rave about the 'fantastic' optics of old legacy lenses, they can often pick up for reletive penies for obsolete old camera systems.

    I have myself... when I bought my Nikon D3200, I bought an adapter to be able to use my old M42 screw fit lenses for film cameras, while I saved up to buy a similar range of lenses for the widgetal; I actually did some back-to-back test shots using the Kit-Grade Nikon 55-300 I got for the widgetal against the Prinx Galazy 300 'prime' for my old M42 film camera; difference was remarkeable... did NOT convince me to send the 55-300 back though.... the difference was not SO huge let alone noticeable that I would sacrifice the 'convenience' of the zoom or Auto-Focus..... But is interesting, how much difference there can be in optical quality between a modern Auto-Focus lens, and even a when new, 'budget' manual focus prime for larger format.

    THIS could be why you got wot-u-got... some-one, more interested in optical quality and more zoom than more wide, thought it was a good idea for the small cash it cost.

    DOES give you small framing problem, in that you have gfot a lens that barely goes even as wide as the 'standard' focal length, let alone any wider... B-U-T didn't cost you a lot.... and in years past, cameras came with often a fixed lens let alone a zoom, no closer to standard than what you got, they couldn't even swap, let alone change length just twisting a knob, and even if they could change lenses on a usually 35mm SLR... many never did, because those lenses were expensive and bulky to carry and they could do what they wanted with what was on the camera.

    Have you been Ripped off?

    Well... camera is as described... not sellers fault you didn't read the advert or know what you were buying.... mislead a little perhaps... yes... ripped off? Well ANY working DSLR for under £100 is PRETTY cheap! IS this REALLY worth quibbling over?

    A-N-D most buy alternative lenses for interchangeable lens cameras PRETTY quickly as they get exited by the fact they can... and your other post suggests you are little different and already looking at falling down the slippery slope of Gadget-Acquesition-Syndrome looking for all those 'must have' toys to do action photography, astro-photography, portrature, landscapes, etc etc etc...

    In that huge free-for-all mele of your initial enthusiasm for 'photography'.... THIS really is no big deal.... it REALLY isn't.

    Sure, you would probably have a better starting point with a more conventional 18-55mm ish 'kit' lens, that covers the standard focal length and some wide-side... B-U-T... thgese are so common and cheap, they are often given away... as makers did to start with in many cases! (My D3200 was actually cheaper with 18-55 as a 'kit' than the camera was 'body only'! Lenses dont come much cheaper than less than free, really, they dont!)

    If you really want a more conventional 'kit' its not like they are hard to come by or expensive when you do... and that is, if you dont go for alternative lenses that cover that range anyway, like a super-zoom, or go get lenses you will more often use in the wide side or tele-end, as so many are forever chasing, never using anything even close to standard... where if they do... they want a 30 or 35mm 'prime' for shallow focus DoF effects or whatever.

    Considering other post.... [shrug] aspirations and ambitions way out of control in your new found exitement for the hobby, wild U-Tube tutorials and old-master inspirations, when you probably dont know an f-stop from a bus-stop, or what either could do for your photo....

    MY Advice here and now, is CHILL OUT! Lol! itys not like you have just spent £900 on a camera to not get exactly what you expect, that you probably still dont know how to exploit.

    This £90 e-bay bargain, might not be quite the bargain you hoped for, but what the heck! It has a lens, it takes photo's and it is STILL far more camera than many of us started with in the film-era, and had little choiuce but to LEARN how to exploit what we got to get what we wanted, and do it witch olf fashioned CRAFT not EQUIPMENT... and THAT this camera and lens can still let you do....IF you chill out a bit, and dont let your ambition and inspiration get carried away egged on by effin U-Tube-Tuts... JUST try reading the bluddy owners guide that came with thge camera, or is likely in pdf in 50 places on the web!!!

    As advice others offered in other post; go look at what you did with the camera phone; go look at what you can do with this camera; and spend more time figuring out all that you CAN do with either, than ruing what you cant, without whatever new-toy some bit of web-blarney raves about as sooooo essential, to be even more dissapointed it dont do it for you, you still need learn the 'craft'....

    On which topic, answer to query in other post about 'motovation'?!?!? NMO bit of camera kit will fin you a subject that is natually photogenic, or perfectly composed, or wonderfully composed... YOU have to go find or make that on your own, and THAT is 99% of the persiot that IS photography... looking THROUGH the camera, not AT the camera.... and there is your first lesson in taking 'better' photo's...
     
    omens and Lez325 like this.
  17. jakeblu

    jakeblu

    Messages:
    7,678
    Name:
    Steve
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    Yes
    Your within the return period, if your not happy, send it back.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
    chuckles and Mr Pid like this.
  18. Tom Green

    Tom Green

    Messages:
    1,513
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    Yes
    Send it back. I’d invest a little more if I were you and get a better body. Doesn’t have to be much more.
     
  19. Nostromo

    Nostromo

    Messages:
    2,164
    Name:
    Dominic
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    Yes
    I have to say, I'm in agreement with most people, I'd send it back. You can get much better for a little more.
     
  20. gremlin16

    gremlin16

    Messages:
    1,653
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    Yes
    send it back, no arguement. spend more time when buying a replacement.
     
  21. Teflon-Mike

    Teflon-Mike

    Messages:
    948
    Name:
    Mike
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    Yes
    What else could you get for under £100 that was much if any significantly more?
    And how much would you loose having to pay the postage to return, and hassle, and inconvenience until replaced, to spend more to get not much more, the OP still had to learn now to get the best from?
    18-55 kit lenses are cheap.... very cheap, if THAT is the main quibble here, and is THE most important factor.... he can probably get one for less than the return postage price and a lot less hassle... meanwhile get out, get on and do a little learning with the camera still... and save penies towards that 'better' camera, and or just better lens, as and when he has the money and much better idea what he wants another 'better' camera and/or lens to do for him, and has that little extra experience and learning to possibly extract whatever that 'better' might be from the 'better' camera.
    Just being agrieved to not have got all he thinks he should have or exactly what he thinks the camera should be, 2nd hand off e-bay? Yeah... disappointment, but if you cant take that... just get rid! Photography is more disappointment than anything else when you look at the results you get for your enthusiasm compared to the master!
    Is this REALLY the biggest most expensive mistake or error a new photographer is likely to make? I don't think so....
     
  22. gremlin16

    gremlin16

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    1,653
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    Yes
    It’s more a point of principle for me.
     
    StephenM likes this.
  23. swanseamale47

    swanseamale47

    Messages:
    7,933
    Name:
    wayne clarke
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    Yes
    Well if it lists two different lens in the advert I would expect it to come with both. It clearly says 18-55 in the banner of the advert, thats the lens I would expect at very least. lets face it if they dont count that part of the advert then they could argue the camera is wrong too and send you a 10d or any old thing they have knocking around.
     
    sphexx likes this.
  24. Darkhorse

    Darkhorse

    Messages:
    11
    Name:
    Peter
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    Yes
    So I managed to get a refund. I was wondering then what kind of "upgrade" would be best. I think after the little time I had with the 350D I have some ideas, I would like live view seems like it would help. I am sure I would want to have the 18-55mm lens now. I guess the 450D will be suited with a kit lens. I liked a couple of things with the 350D so not too much I feel needs changing (unless you guys suggest something). I realise there is a limit that I have to set somewhere haha or else I end up spending hundreds haha.

    I have been learning a lot about aperture, iso and shutter speed and I think that I will l be able to put that into practise once I have my new camera.

    I think I would be happy to spend an additional £50 or so. Total about £150 then.

    Don't worry Teflon-Mike I don't intend to get into gadget acquisition. I will spend a lot of time learning about this camera now and learn the fundamentals. But I have been given a second chance so might as well get the best I can with my money. And this forum has been really helpful so far, I would appreciate any advice :)
     
    omens and sphexx like this.
  25. Nostromo

    Nostromo

    Messages:
    2,164
    Name:
    Dominic
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    Yes
    I'm glad you got your money back.
    A 450d or 500d will do you fine or look for a 50d although that maybe pushing your budget with a lens.
    Take a look at mpb photographic, they sell used camera's and lenses, you get a 3 month warranty and are a reputable company.
     
  26. sphexx

    sphexx

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    1,410
    Name:
    Richard
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    No
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
    Nostromo likes this.
  27. Box Brownie

    Box Brownie

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    5,543
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    FWIW

    My first dSLR was the 350D, when I upgraded I got the 40D. (Note ~ since sold long ago in part exchange.)

    IMO the 40D for image quality and the ease they could be post processed with a very light touch made it 'best in class' it's time. Yes, lacks many bells & whistles compared to more recent models but again and only IMO makes a great tool for learning where you need great control over the camera settings.

    Best of luck with your photography adventure :)
     
    ecoleman and maarten.dhaese like this.
  28. Mr Badger

    Mr Badger

    Messages:
    2,308
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    Yes
    I think MPB offer a 6 month warranty not 3 month? I believe WEX offer a 12 month warranty on used cameras, so might be worth checking out and comparing price/value. I've bought twice from MPB and each time the item was as described and arrived quickly and I was emailed by the courier company with a 1 hour delivery slot time on the morning of the delivery, which is always useful when planning your day (I wish all delivery services do that these days!). I've also bought a some items from Ffordes and found them to be as described too. Hope this is useful, but don't blame me if your experience with any of them isn't as good, because I'm sure everyone drops a clanger occasionally! Best of luck finding something and don't forget to let us know how you go on. (y)
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
  29. TonyT

    TonyT

    Messages:
    57
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
  30. TonyT

    TonyT

    Messages:
    57
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
  31. TonyT

    TonyT

    Messages:
    57
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
  32. StewartR

    StewartR Efrem Zimbalist Jr Advertiser

    Messages:
    11,179
    Name:
    Stewart (duh)
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    Yes
    Snap. I've never really found another camera that I get on with as well as the old 40D.
     
  33. TonyT

    TonyT

    Messages:
    57
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    Yes
    I tend to agree, I went from the 350D to the 50D, a better camera all round in both build quality and natural progression, a 40D would cut out a step on his journey, it was a class leader in its time, but to the person asking, it is a larger body in ones hand, but also is built a lot better.
     
  34. Phil V

    Phil V

    Messages:
    20,955
    Name:
    Phil
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    No
    Another vote for the 40d here, lacks the bells and whistles of modern cameras, but is a fantastic picture taking tool, head and shoulders better than a 450d and a no-brainier at current prices (bear in mind I think I paid close to a grand for mine)
     
  35. sk66

    sk66

    Messages:
    6,035
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    Steven
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    Yes
    Jeeze, I would be inclined to read that as additional to the primary listing it was under. I.e. 350D w/ 18-55, this listing *also* comes with 35-80, charger, battery, card.
    I apparently haven't shopped on Amazon enough...
     
  36. Darkhorse

    Darkhorse

    Messages:
    11
    Name:
    Peter
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    Yes
    Great, so I think I will go for the 40d then. Seems like a good purchase and should allow me to continue working on what I want to learn.

    I wondered with regards to the lens what does the II mean after the 18-55mm in the lens section someone linked above there is a 5 pound difference between the EF-S 18-55MM and the same thing with II at the end. I cant really see any differences in the stats or anything, and I guess it cant be too big a difference if its just 5 quid haha so this just made me wonder.
     
  37. Nostromo

    Nostromo

    Messages:
    2,164
    Name:
    Dominic
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    ii means it's the mark 2 version. It'll be slightly younger than the mark 1, probably have slightly better optics and focusing. I would seriously look for the Canon 18-55 stm, it's a much better lens than the other 2.
     
  38. Unicronatron

    Unicronatron

    Messages:
    18
    Name:
    Stephen
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    Yes
    The 18-55is I and II are optically the same I believe.

    Canon tweaked the design slightly but to my knowledge it shouldn't make any difference to the function of the lens, its purely cosmetic.

    I would save the fiver.

    There is also a newer (more expensive) STM version of this lens which has a different optical design and focus system.
     
  39. Unicronatron

    Unicronatron

    Messages:
    18
    Name:
    Stephen
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Also to avoid any confusion, some of the lenses on MPB are the even older version without "IS" in the name I.e. This lens lacks image stabilisation.

    You probably want to avoid unless you will always be using a tripod. Even then I not sure if the image quality on this older design is as good
     
  40. Willid1

    Willid1

    Messages:
    1,501
    Name:
    David Williams
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    No

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