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Not a good sign there, surely the replacement would have been inspected and checked before sending in a case like this?
Doesn't bode well for their professionalism.
Panamoz Serial numbers
- Thread starter Eddzz!!
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Not a good sign there, surely the replacement would have been inspected and checked before sending in a case like this?
Doesn't bode well for their professionalism.
OP
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Not true at all. Companies make their mistakes. When I said 'lemon' I didn't mean that the camera was non-functional. It had marks on the focus screen and a large black speck in the view finder. That to me appears to be a manufacturing fault - so down to Canon!
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good to hear you got everything sorted out eddy, panamoz may have many detractors but i certainly can't knock them been excellent thus far.
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I disagree, they sent you a camera with a fake serial number, with all the ensuing bad publicity a company should show the professionalism of ensuring they send you a perfect camera as a replacement. It's pretty lackadaisical that they chuck a camera into a box and send you something with marks on the focus screen and specks in the viewfinder.
If they can't do QC for a case like yours, what's the chances they do anything at all for normal customers?
They are heading more and more onto my "avoid at all costs" list with every new thread and post on the forum.
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Must admit Dave I agree and certainly dont think I would order from them..even if they do replace etc sounds like a lot of grief.
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wow! ..they've had a camera returned due to a tiny spec of dust on the viewfinder, haha AVOID AT ALL COSTS!
seems there are a lot of people trying to find fault with a company who have had an impeccable past service on this forum! .. maybe its due in someway to the fact that buyers have paid well over the odds for equipment through high street stores (and been fleeced via UK taxes) ..for the SAME products
waiting to get flamed lol
seems there are a lot of people trying to find fault with a company who have had an impeccable past service on this forum! .. maybe its due in someway to the fact that buyers have paid well over the odds for equipment through high street stores (and been fleeced via UK taxes) ..for the SAME products
waiting to get flamed lol
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wow! ..they've had a camera returned due to a tiny spec of dust on the viewfinder, haha AVOID AT ALL COSTS!
seems there are a lot of people trying to find fault with a company who have had an impeccable past service on this forum! .. maybe its due in someway to the fact that buyers have paid well over the odds for equipment through high street stores (and been fleeced via UK taxes) ..for the SAME products
waiting to get flamed lol
Who mentioned a `tiny spec`?
The quote was " It had marks on the focus screen and a large black speck in the view finder."
Hope YOU never receive marked/dirty goods, but if you did, presumablt you'd be happy.
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wow! ..they've had a camera returned due to a tiny spec of dust on the viewfinder, haha AVOID AT ALL COSTS!
seems there are a lot of people trying to find fault with a company who have had an impeccable past service on this forum! .. maybe its due in someway to the fact that buyers have paid well over the odds for equipment through high street stores (and been fleeced via UK taxes) ..for the SAME products
waiting to get flamed lol
Not at all but having had issues I would expect the OP not to have to return yet another item 1000s of miles away and yet again wait for a replacement.Seems a lot of aggro just to save a few quid.Just my opinion of course!
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Flip side of that is that, given the history, if they'd have opened the box and fired off a few frames to check it, they'd have been wide open to accusations of tampering with the goods or selling a used camera.
How do you think the OP would have reacted?
Having worked in mail order retail myself, it's certainly safer for them to make sure it's factory sealed.
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Did you read the whole thread before jumping into "Panamoz defence" mode?
He received a camera
So I bought my Canon 7D from Panamoz, knowing full-well that it would be a grey import. Who cares? Reputable company, one year warranty with them as standard and all for a unbeatable price. I knew therefore that the Camera would most likely come without a UK serial. Well I checked the sticker on the bottom of the camera where the serial number is located. Firstly, the sticker is slightly askew, which leads me to believe someone at Panamoz has tampered with the sticker. Anyway I registered the product with Canon no problem.
Today I checked the serial number of the sticker against the serial number included in my exif data and they are completely different! Why would Panamoz go through the hassle of sticking a UK serial sticker onto the bottom of a grey import camera?
OK? Pamamoz supplied a camera with a faked serial number.
He then complained and after much messing about Panamoz sent him a replacement.
Marks on focusing screen and a large black speck in the viewfinder.
Considering he has been messed about by a less than professional company, who couldn't be bothered to even check the replacement before sending it.
The same company that pays no tax or import duty whilst selling their goods in the UK, and has now started charging prices that are almost at the level charged by legitimate UK companies who do pay their fair share of UK tax and duty. Yes, I probably will avoid them at all costs, I cannot see a single positive in dealing with them at present.
I am amazed by the Panamoz "customers" (other grey HK retailers as well) who jump into forum threads about the company to vociferously defend the company, even in the face of a legitimate complaint or concern :shrug:
I always wondered if some of these companies employ people to patrol forums looking for negative posts....
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Rob, there would no need to fire off the shutter (but they could have got Eddzz permission to do a full test if needs be), they could have checked the camera and made sure the serial stickers hadn't been tampered with "by the supplier" (as has been intimated previously happened), and checked the camera for QC reasons like scratches or manufacturing defects. After all, the camera is being sent thousands of miles, and now has to be returned thousands of miles, and another (third) replacement has to come back thousands of miles. It's just lunacy for one camera to cause enough air travel to almost go to space.
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It's fairly well documented that one of the HK suppliers (not Panamoz) does exactly that, quite aggressively in fact.
There have been various mentions of Panamoz offering money to previous customers for positive forum posts and reviews (a TP regular had one a while back), but I don't know how widespread that is. It's certainly enough to make me very untrusting of the very strong defence they appear to get on here for issues that would never be accepted if caused by UK stores.
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I was extremely sceptical prior to purchasing with panamoz not knowing if my money would just disappear etc. however, I have nothing but praise for them and I didn't just buy a £500 lens! Issues can occur I have a family member who's brand new £28k car came with scratched door trim. I purchased a new laptop from Sony a year a go and it came with a scratched screen. Stuff happens its how it's dealt with that makes or breaks a company.
And nobody from panamoz asked me to post up a review!
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Matt
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I can assure you that we have never taken any money from Panamoz other than for 1 month of advertising, when they couldnt satisfy us of a few things that we wanted to know, we terminated the advertising contract.
I have no idea if any members have been asked to do that. Normally, companies that have bad reviews on here send us threats to remove or they will sue for damaging their business..wallies.
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I have no idea if any members have been asked to do that. Normally, companies that have bad reviews on here send us threats to remove or they will sue for damaging their business..wallies.[/QUOTE]
have PANAMOZ ever threatened "this forum" ..in response to a bad review? :shrug:
have PANAMOZ ever threatened "this forum" ..in response to a bad review? :shrug:
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Apologies if I didn't word my post clearly, I was referring to emails to customers, not TP itself. I guess buying positive reviews is a more subtle way of building a rep, rather than trying to 'clean' the internet of everything bad written like some do.
Matt
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No, not at all and any company that receives a bad review here [whether they complain to admin or not] is welcome to join as a member and given a right to reply and offer both sides of the story.
not to worry
I know someone that purchased goods from Panamoz and was told if they left a good review of there service on here that they would refund them back £10 of their purchase.
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Hi guys, OP here. I am afraid, Dave that you are quite simply wrong on a number of accounts.
Yes, I have had some issues with the couple of Canon 7Ds that I have received from Panamoz. However, these issues pale in comparrison to the number of positive dealings that other people have had with Panamoz. You can't rule a company out just because a few customers have complained. By that logic you should also be condemning Amazon, eBay, ebuyer, Play, etc... In fact, you may as well condemn the whole internet on that basis!
There wasn't any 'messing about' - after one email, Tina from Panamoz responded immediately and without hesitation offered a replacement. I was delighted.
I think I have OCD. The 'large black speck' in the viewfinder was only visible when taking your eye away. A 'normal' person wouldn't have noticed it. I'm not normal
... The marks on the focus screen were only visible when looking through the viewfinder, without a lens attached, into bright light. Again, your average Joe probably wouldn't have noticed it, but me being me, I did! The camera was tested and checked before it was sent to me. I can forgive Panamoz for not picking up on the issues that I found, because they were so minute. Unfortunately for them, I'm extremely picky. Panamoz again responded positively and were wholly apologetic . Again, they offered me a replacement (it's being dispatched today). I call that professional.
The reason customers like me continue to defend Panamoz, DigitalRev, Hdew, etc... is because they offer great value and service for well below UK prices. The UK is one of a few countries in the world that continues to charge above the odds for good such as these. Some view it as tax-dodging, and that's fine - if you want to stick to your guns and pay hundreds more, you do that. As long as it's legal I will continue to purchase from reputable over-seas sellers, just like Panamoz.
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But it's not legal and they've sold counterfeit goods.
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I wasn't aware of that :shrug: Please elaborate.
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So are you now saying the counterfeit label on the base of the original camera wasn't counterfeit? And was actually a genuine Canon label?
I'm getting lost in the Panamoz love in that seems to be starting up in this thread :shrug:.
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Lol I don't mind - people can have their own opinions and I shall keep mine!
It was a genuine Canon label. It looks like Panamoz suppliers had swapped labels out from another camera. Panamoz have confirmed that they no longer deal with that supplier.
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Well, it's not the SAME equipment is it? If it was exactly the same it wouldn't have a different warranty attached would it?
I just have this moral problem, I, and my family, use the NHS, I drive on the roads of the UK, I believe in paying my share to the Government to maintain the services of this country.
I just find tax evasion, whether by a single camera being smuggled in, or Vodafone avoiding £6 billion, or creative accountancy by companies like Starbucks to all be morally wrong. I just can't condemn Starbucks but then happily accept Joe Bloggs has "had a great deal" by literally smuggling a camera into the country.
Buy from Panamoz by all means, just declare it for tax and duty on arrival and then if possible, claim your costs back from them (like Digital Rev claim you can do).
Is that an old fashioned or outdated concept?
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Of course, if their service is that good, I presume people will continue to support them despite their significant price hikes recently?
(I'm also quite shocked, that this far down the line somebody still believes what they're doing is above board)
(I'm also quite shocked, that this far down the line somebody still believes what they're doing is above board)
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Leaving the Panamoz views to one side for a moment. If it's legal then I wouldn't care... I used to, but after paying years of taxes etc and gaining nothing much in return (in relation to many people who really abuse the system) then I will try to save money where possible. If it is illegal then that's a different matter.
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That's just it, it actually is illegal. People who evade the duty take a chance and that's their choice, what gets me is the fact they then jump on the net and boast about the "good deal" they got.
Customs and Excise Management Act 1979
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Why? Surely it's only correct to debate the good and the bad of dealing with these companies.
I'm suspect that now you have had a successful conclusion to your problem you want the spotlight of attention taken off them as it has served it's purpose for you, but the case is a good account of why sometimes it can be more sensible to buy in the UK (well, other than the fact you didn't have to pay the VAT on your camera).
Ok, first up don't flame me for asking this. Until now I've been sitting on the side-lines .... and try to accept that I'm not choosing sides here.
What I'd like to work out is how are Panamoz evading UK import tax?
Over the years I've purchased a number of items from abroad and sometimes they get impounded until I've paid the import tax on them. I can't put a precise figure on it, but I'd say 1 in 5..... and those odds tend to drop the bigger the package is.
When I considered purchasing from Panamoz for the first time a few weeks ago I read on their website: "All import charges are covered by us (No more surprising charges)".
Ok, of course they could of fibbed so then I started reading the reviews around the Net. There are numerous positive accounts of Panamoz, many more than your average UK company in fact. But let's just take Reviewcentre as an example. I read loads of mostly positive reviews there and not one person said 'I had to pay import tax..... but Panamoz refunded it'.
Now what are the odds that in some 600 reviews on that one site alone not a single person is saying their item was detected by UK customs and impounded?
So based on those odds and their statement I assumed Panamoz was paying the duties and operating above board.
Now I'm open to the fact that they may not be, but rather than folks jumping straight to the conclusion; 'they must be because their prices are too cheap', can someone offer some tangible proof that they 'definitely' are not paying import tax?
What I'd like to work out is how are Panamoz evading UK import tax?
Over the years I've purchased a number of items from abroad and sometimes they get impounded until I've paid the import tax on them. I can't put a precise figure on it, but I'd say 1 in 5..... and those odds tend to drop the bigger the package is.
When I considered purchasing from Panamoz for the first time a few weeks ago I read on their website: "All import charges are covered by us (No more surprising charges)".
Ok, of course they could of fibbed so then I started reading the reviews around the Net. There are numerous positive accounts of Panamoz, many more than your average UK company in fact. But let's just take Reviewcentre as an example. I read loads of mostly positive reviews there and not one person said 'I had to pay import tax..... but Panamoz refunded it'.
Now what are the odds that in some 600 reviews on that one site alone not a single person is saying their item was detected by UK customs and impounded?
So based on those odds and their statement I assumed Panamoz was paying the duties and operating above board.
Now I'm open to the fact that they may not be, but rather than folks jumping straight to the conclusion; 'they must be because their prices are too cheap', can someone offer some tangible proof that they 'definitely' are not paying import tax?
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I hate to point the obvious out, but the whole tax thing has been talked about more than once in this post:
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=425562
It seems pointless having another 'debating' post about it.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=425562
It seems pointless having another 'debating' post about it.
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They post the item from HK, and label it falsely, as Soda Farl says "toy parts".
I can say I'm Bill Gates, and worth £10 billion, doesn't make it true.
Review centre is flawed, there is no control over who posts, and you don't even have had to be a customer to post a review.
A number of the HK retailers also offer to pay customers to give a glowing review. Many of the HK retailers will also threaten sites and forums with legal action if they allow negative stories or reviews.
Bad assumption, you can easily find the proof, just phone them and ask them, look on their website or invoices for UK registration numbers for VAT and company registration.
The mere fact they see fit to label their parcels as "toy parts" should be enough for most to realise they are deliberately helping the customer evade duty.
Last summer I bought a 550D via e.bay/paypal from a private buyer. After joining this forum I came across this and similar topics.
When I checked the serial number on the base of the camera with the exif details within I found they were different. I then contacted Canon UK and was shocked to find that my camera, although genuine was infact a 'grey' market product. Obviously I am aware that the initial one years guarantee from Canon has now expired but my main worry is that if and when I decide to sell the camera in the future. I have tried contacting the seller and sent him details of what Canon say but as expected heard nothing back from him. Maybe he was unaware of the problem ? but my main question to him was where did he buy it from ... not too much to ask and might help me get to the bottom of this.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
COPY OF E.MAIL I RECEIVED YESTERDAY FROM CANON UK :
Thank you for your email.
Please be advised that both the internal and external serial numbers on our DSLR cameras should match. The camera itself appears to be genuine, however the external serial number is counterfeit.
Please be advised that we would not repair counterfeit products as they have been tampered with.
We would advise to forward our original email onto the seller to request a refund. This seller can then approach their retailer with the same correspondence to request a refund. Please enlist the help of trading standards to seek a refund from the seller.
When I checked the serial number on the base of the camera with the exif details within I found they were different. I then contacted Canon UK and was shocked to find that my camera, although genuine was infact a 'grey' market product. Obviously I am aware that the initial one years guarantee from Canon has now expired but my main worry is that if and when I decide to sell the camera in the future. I have tried contacting the seller and sent him details of what Canon say but as expected heard nothing back from him. Maybe he was unaware of the problem ? but my main question to him was where did he buy it from ... not too much to ask and might help me get to the bottom of this.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
COPY OF E.MAIL I RECEIVED YESTERDAY FROM CANON UK :
Thank you for your email.
Please be advised that both the internal and external serial numbers on our DSLR cameras should match. The camera itself appears to be genuine, however the external serial number is counterfeit.
Please be advised that we would not repair counterfeit products as they have been tampered with.
We would advise to forward our original email onto the seller to request a refund. This seller can then approach their retailer with the same correspondence to request a refund. Please enlist the help of trading standards to seek a refund from the seller.
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I would say your chance of succeeding in getting a refund after 6-9 months on a private sale are going to be slim to none.
Probably a reason why a second hand body with a UK receipt still seems to command a premium over one of an unknown origin or even worse, a grey import.
Just to clarify for others, items shipped by Panamoz are not all marked as toy parts.