Photo Editing - what's your view?

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1
Name
Thomas
Edit My Images
Yes
Hi everyone,

I'm new to photography and have been playing around with the app ViewBug which is a photo contest app. Users enter there photos and others vote on photos over a 2 week period.

I've been looking through lots of the pictures to see what the competition is like when I noticed that a large amount of images are extremely edited, to the point where it's not really the same image it started out as.

What's your view on this? I always thought that the image was what made up most of the photo and the editing should only enhance the photo with subtle changes.

Would appreciate your views/comments ☺️
 
Editing of photos has been taking place since the days of Fox Talbot. It always will happen.
Do you like the end result?
Photography is an art form and as such allowance for personal expression is needed.
You don't have to do it yourself!!!
 


:welcome: to the forum, Thomas! :cool:


What's your view on this?

  1. Proper capture
  2. Correct read out of the recorded data
  3. Fine tuning through tonal taming
  4. Apply artistic intent.
As you learned, there is a big difference between
photography and imagery, you personal taste will
draw the line.
 
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I've been looking through lots of the pictures to see what the competition is like when I noticed that a large amount of images are extremely edited, to the point where it's not really the same image it started out as.
What's your view on this? I always thought that the image was what made up most of the photo and the editing should only enhance the photo with subtle changes.
Well it's a can of worms, as the popular saying has it. All photography is artifice of some kind, right from the off. It's pretty personal where you draw your lines. But I can offer two or three reference points. One is about technical competence (and there's little excuse for sloppiness - which denotes laziness or ignorance). But another is about artistic intent and its fulfilment. The overriding thing though is meaning - what the communicable meaning of the photograph (image) is. It's possible for a photographic image to have little meaning at all - to be trivial, and I could suspect that such are amongst the images that you're referring to (I haven't looked). But it's helpful to look for what the meaning of a photograph is and to characterise it.

A photograph might be a technical excercise of some sort, and have little meaning beyond that. Or it might embody a certain kind of noticing, whether everyday or revelatory. Does it grab your gut. or engage your intellect, or neither - or something in between?

We are gifted in this internet age of being able to see lots of stuff. But you have to focus your gaze and learn to distinguish the wheat from the chaff. Sounds like you've started!
 
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Well here's a can of worms...

Anyway, as has already been said, editing has always been there, whether you are cropping a print in a darkroom or a pc, it's still the same, just as dodging and blending has always been there. What digital has allowed is for more people to be able to express their creative intent. Going back 20 years it wasn't that common for somebody to have access to a darkroom, whereas now everyone has immediate access to a suite of editing tools, even built into their mobile phone.

A lot depends on how you view photography. Now in the dictionary it says to take a picture with a camera. However the original meaning was "to draw with light". If you use the latter then it interprets as more of an art which allows artistic impression and enhancement.

By the current meaning editing could be viewed as cheating. However personally I don't see anything wrong with editing, even in some of these unnatural He's as long as the photographer is happy then who cares.

Although I do have an issue with these photos that are now being turned into what appears to be paintings. But that's just my personal view.
 
The photos are edited from the moment you loft the camera and cut out whatever is not in frame. Further editing is the choice of the artist. With regards to viewbug, you'll probably find it is swamped with amateurs who don't mind giving the app makers rights to their photos.
 
Popcorn anyone? I'm just nipping out for some.
Cup of tea and a Hobnob, while you're out please. Never been a fan of popcorn.

I have said since I started shooting digital that "I want to take good pictures, not edit mediocre ones". I started saying that as a reaction to friends at Uni who bought DSLRs, shot mostly absolute rubbish, but spent hours afterwards adding what I saw as a faked 'wow factor' with over-saturation, over-the-top HDR, single colour keying, etc to grab the eye of people who knew little about photography. There was the odd gem, yes, but mainly rubbish. And yes, there was a hint of jealousy in there back then.

I still say it now, but for different reasons. I still want to get as much as possible right in-camera, but acknowledge that there's a degree of tweaking needed - as Kodiak says above, fine tuning and artistic intent. For me nowadays I just want to reduce the amount of time I have to spend at a PC going through them afterwards. I work at a PC all day 5 days a week, I don't need to spend my evenings and weekends behind one as well (though I often do...).
 
I always thought that the image was what made up most of the photo and the editing should only enhance the photo with subtle changes.

Does Ansel Adams' Moonrise count as a subtle change?

I think that by "image" you probably mean either what was in front of the camera or the way the camera rendered it without intervention (other than the makers who provided the colour balance, saturation, sharpening etc. if a jpg; or the colour balance, contrast, and saturation provided by the film makers and the developer/processing used, plus possibly the photographer's choice of filters if film). I prefer to think in terms of how I saw the final print based on what was in front of the camera lens; the final print not having to be a slavish copy of the scene.
 
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I had this debate wth a fine artist many years ago, who'se opion was pretty purist, and a 'photo' should remain a traight record of photo-reality and ANY manipulation was frauding the viewer.

To which I replied that 'Photo-realism' and the notion that 'the camera never lies' is a myth; the camera ALWAYS lies... and it starts long before any post-process diddling.

Before you press the shutter, you have the dilemah whether to use a slow shutter and blur motion, or a wide aperture and effect a shallow focus. NOTHING shot with 'flash' is depicting a 'real' scene you would see with the naked eye, etc etc etc...

In the poineering era, a lot of what are now common manipulations, were used to ahieve a 'perception' of photo-realism the equipment and materials they had to hand didn't allow... such a magnesium flash lightig, or the use of posing stocks to hold a sitter still durng a exposure, or... re-incented in modern times as HDR, merging seperate exposures for shaddow and high-lights to make a print.. WHICH.. is actually a re-invention of what was a common practice amongst 'fine art' practicioners, who made a final painting, not from a 'real' scene but from sketches of diferent elements....

I believe that art historians have been debating for decades over 'where' Constable painted the Haywain... unable to locate any where that a ford runs infront of a cottage in such a 'flat' region devoid of hills n the back-ground... and that concensus is that the final painting was almost certainly created in the studio from seperate sketches of the cottage, the river, the cart the carter, the sky and trees, that 'scene' even in small part 'never' actually existed...

So.. where do you draw the line? How can you say, 'yes', it's fine to make an entirely artifical, but aparently 'real' image with a paint brush, but 'oh no!' you MUST not try and 'fool' the audience making an entirely artificial image with a Camera... because the 'audience' have a presumption that the camera never lies?

Takes the debate off into a new area, where it is not a matter of symantics, and what may or may not be 'acceptabe practice' but one in which it is the relationship between the creator and the viewer and the intent of the creator.

And even if there is intent to decieve in creation, that does not necesserly deminish the 'art'! People pay to go see magicians KNOWING that they are going to try and decieve them.. that IS thier whole 'art'! And not knowing how they have been decieved a large part of the spectacle.

In photography? The 'fraud' comes right at the start, with the viewers perception that what they are looking at 'should' be photo-realism.... the myth that the camera never lies.

A-N-D, on that presumption, I HAVE to say that photo-shop has done wonders to STOP viewers making that automitic assumption!

It is revealing that the modern obscession with 'sharpness' and digital clinicity combined with ever higher resolution micro sensor cameras has resultd in a phenomina where subjects may be rendered with such aparent 'sharpness' in a scene, that they appear detatched from that scene, and viewers will look at that image and insist that the subject 'must' have been photo-shopped in to what IS actually a 'straight' photograph....

The increased commonality of image manipulation has done a awful lot to break the presumption that a 'photo' is an accurate depiction of reality, to the point that it s NOT automatcally assumed, and even a 'straight' photo displaying the sort of inherent anomoly created 'in-camera' is accused of having bee 'diddled'.

This makes it that much more dificult to use that viewers assumption to fool thier perception, and may beg a even greater dgree of 'diddling' to achieve the sort of photo-reality that a viewer would expect.... conversely, that presumtion deminishd, any image that doesn't display the preumed level of photo-reality becomes, is more obviousely prsented to be judged on its own merit as an image, like Constable's Hay wain, or a magician's rabbit from the hat... the means of creation becoms less important, the response of the viewer, whether they are deligtd by what they see, whether they question what thy see, all becomes seperated from the actual means of creation, and the question "How did you do that?" merely ONE of the possible responses you might envoke in the viewer... which may or may not add or detract from the image, and we return to the intent of the creator and their relationship with the viewer....

A large chunk of my photgraphs are technical illustrations, trying to display what an obscure bit of the inside of a motorbike should like, and how to put them bits together... this is far from 'art' photography, trying to deliberately manipulate emotions... and the presumption of 'photo-realism' is used... synically!

People see a photo of a spark plug they dont expect that to look any different in real life... YET to concentrate the viewers attension on the condition of the electrodes, that image will use a scale and selective focus, to make obviouse what they should be lookig at... not what they would actally see for real with the naked eye; trying to show where a cam-chain tensioner bolt is to be found on the back of an engine, again, atifical light will be used to actually light it up, selective focus will be employed, they dont 'need' to see the detail of finning on the cylinders, or the casting marks on the cam cover! And I will 'clone out' destracting detail, like say a temperature sender wire, or a clutch cable or 'something' that isn't intrinsic to the message I am tryng to convey, "This is a cam-tensioner bolt! This is what it looks like! This is whre you will find it! Follow instructions to tension the cam-chain!" The 'photo' is synically lacking 'photo-realsm' it is NOT a faithful reproduction of the subject I took a photo of.... do I care whether the viewer believes it is, or should be? Or do are that they have found the right bolt to twist, and not mistakenly undone the wrong bolt and dropped the oil-pump into the sump instead of stop thier tappetes tapping! Have I defrauded the viewer some-how, even if they believe what they are looking at is an absolutely 'faithful' photographc image?

I cold convey the same message in more conventional non photo-graphic means; technical dawing, obviousely not photo-realistic, but imedietly abstract, the viewer has to try and interpret that line drawing to the actual artifact. Sometmes that 'may' be mre apropriate, and using scrap-sections or detail segments, or exploded diagrams, thse 'may' better illustrate the situation, of the real world to the viewer... but, they remain obviousely abstract.. this does not make them any more or less 'honest'.. NONE of the images are particularly 'Honest' they are ALL trying to comunicate with the viewer.... and in this sort of instance, that can be pretty easily measured; "Dd you fint the cam-chain-tensioner bolt? Did you manage to stop your tappets rattling?" DID the image convey the message, did it do the job?

Moving away from that use of photo's for illustraton, where they are a tool, into the art arena where they are their own message.... the intent, the anticipated viewer response, may be anything, from making them gasp at the aesthetic beuty, to gasp wth revulsio, laugh at the humour or question what they are looking at or the world arond them, but still, the question is "Did it do the job?" NOT "How did you make that?"

IF they actually ask how you made an image.... you have probably failed.... whether for art or illustration, that shouldn't matter.. merely the 'message' communicated.

Now submit a photo into a photo competition..... the same deal still applies.. its the relationship between you, the creator and the viewer, and the viewer, the judge (or panel of).. what is the remit of the competition? What are the rules of the competition, and what is the purpose of the photo? And the specification may be quite perverse and obtuse,,, and the ultimate judging criteria significantly detached from the published rules and requirements...

Back to the cam-chain-tensioner bolt.... twenty odd years ago, building motorbikes for racing... objective s simple... cross the finish line first! Rules often quite stringent; Quirky anomaly for you, for the 500cc class, in the 'open' class, that was the hard limit for the engine displacement; bore an engine out to over 500cc, it didn't qualify. But in the 'production' class, an engine could be built to 'blue-print' regulations, where if the manufacture allowed for a 're-bore' as a normal service procedure, an engine that might have displaced 490cc when sold in the show room, could be bored out to perhaps 540cc for racing.... at least in the proddy class... but that '500' class bike wouldn't technically comply with the 'open' regs.... B-U-T.... if you entered that bike in both proddy and open classes? And got a scrutineers ticket for it, would you get caught racing it n the 'open'? Where the 'rules end how much may you get away with in the margins?

Taking that bit of 'snaky' or down right 'cheating' into the realms of the academic assignment or the photo competition.... there may be as much in your 'interpretation' of the rules, and how far you are prepared to go, bending or breaking them, in achieving what the judge hopes to see, as there is in diligently adhering to the rules.... especially if they are looking for that interpretation, that ingenuity, that 'creativity' or simply bravery to push the boundaries....

A-N-D we are back to it being all down to the relationship between the creator and the viewer, the creators intent and the viewers expectations....

Post-Process manipulation remains just one legitimate 'tool' in the creators armory, in the same way that 'doped fuel' is a legitimate tool making motorbikes win races.... whether you want to use it, whether you are allowed to use it, whether you may get away with using it... ALL comes down to that relationship between creator and viewer.... an is entirely circumstantial, within the circumstances of that relationship.
 
It depends for me, sometimes editing is if there's a picture I don't feel looks like a true representation of what was seen. (this is more so at work, I take photos of products on my mobile, so sometimes need to run through the camera raw filter on photoshop to colour correct etc..)
Where at home I aim to take pictures direct from camera for portraits etc.. But if I do a landscape or a seascape, I sometimes prefer to give the sky a moody look especially if playing with HDR effects, or with slow shutter speed streams etc I like to pick out their clarity a bit more to emphasize on the smokey look.
 
I love post processing and colour grading as much as taking the pic in the first place. It's part of the process of making an image with potential into something I really like and which hopefully makes the viewer have an opinion on it, rather than skip to the next one in a second.
 
As little as possible. As much as absolutely necessary.
 
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