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  1. JED709

    JED709

    Messages:
    5
    Name:
    Dan
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    First post on the forum (other than welcome thread) and why not start in the beginners forum as that's what I am. As mentioned in my welcome post I'm looking at getting into landscape photography as I live in close proximity to the Lake and Peak Districts, primarily inspired by watching Thomas Heaton videos.

    I'm pretty OCD when it comes to having a plan but I still don't feel 100% confident jumping in the car and climbing up a huge hill in the middle of no where. I've downloaded PhotoPills for my phone for Sunset/sunrise and other handy features, looked on google earth for topography and example images, google maps for parking but still have questions to ask regarding equipment, planning and when you're there if anyone can help (Apologies if anyone thinks these are either lazy or silly questions, just want real life examples)...

    1. First one is clothing... I have walking boots and that's probably it! Will be buying some trousers which is easy enough but what kind of layers for the torso would people recommend taking with them? Can anyone recommend a decent website for outdoor clothing which doesn't break the bank? Don't really fancy spending £250 on a jacket etc
    2. Camera bags! I've come to the conclusion that again to try and keep costs down that I'm better with a 40-50l hiking bag with a separate insert for my camera, lenses and filters etc. Can anyone recommend a decent hiking backpack for under £100 which would have enough space for the insert, clothing and food? (I've looked on the bag thread but seem to be big name brands primarily costing £150+, obviously I can expand over time)
    3. When driving around you often see the green pointy signs which indicate a public footpath. These are often through a farmers field with no actual clear path. If when buying an OS map would these be displayed on there and make more sense?
    4. With regards to OS maps I'm aware they do an app for the iPhone which I think would be handy, does anyone have any experience using this to follow other peoples hikes? Are there any alternative apps you recommend which might make it a bit more easier starting out?
    5. Finally any other essential gear or advice you would recommend?

    Thanks in advance for any help,

    Dan
     
  2. russellsnr

    russellsnr

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    Russell
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    Hi, you have to remember Mr Heaton has been doing this now for a good few years and probably still does not no ALL the in's and out's.
    If you are just starting out in Landscape/s there is no reason I can see that you should be hiking up hills and over dales.
    I used to live in Carlisle so the Lakes where very close and there is so much to photograph without becoming a TH in a week or so.
    Take it a step at a time. First step go out without a camera and look for subjects that interest you (in the lakes there thousands of possibles)
    I found those calm foggy mornings a great time to be out.
    Don't overload the camera bag, think we all have done that and wished we had not.
    Look online at images from the lake district to give you a base idea of what is available.
    Enjoy it first then go for the main goal you have in mind (walk don't run)
    Russ
     
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  3. Tringa

    Tringa

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    Dave
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    Hello Dan.

    Clothing - Have a look at GOOutdoors - large range and many branches so you can go and have a look.

    Camera Bag - If you plan to take in some hills at some time then I agree a normal walking rucksack with inserts is ideal. It allows you to carry clothing, maps, food and drink, in addition to the camera and the support and comfort from a good rucksack is excellent. For shorter less strenuous trip I find a smaller camera type sack is enough. Have a look at 7dayshop and RedSnapper tripods (they do a few bags too)

    Maps - Have a look at Bing Maps. Tere is a drop down arrow with one of the options (if you have zoomed in enough) being Ordnance Survey Maps. They have a lot of detail and you can print small sections, though I still like the paper maps.

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 12:50 PM
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  4. mickledore

    mickledore

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    No need to go charging all over the hills. You live in Blackburn. Heard of White Coppice?
    Well worth an hour round the cricket pitch. Go when there's a match on. Perfect English landscape shot. Then go across the leat and either up the hill towards Great Hill or up the river gorge. Easy to fill an afternoon round there.
     
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  5. Jannyfox

    Jannyfox

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    Jan
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    If you don't feel 100% confident about 'climbing a huge hill in the middle of nowhere' please don't do it. That's how people get into difficulties. Make it a small hill just off the road, then a small hill slightly further from the road till you build your confidence and navigation skills.
    Go Outdoors is probably a good place to start for kit, unless you get hooked and want to spend more on specialist stuff.
    Rucksacks really need to be tried, weighted. The only thing worse than carrying a heavy uncomfortable rucksack is wearing a pair of uncomfortable boots.
    The OS 1:25000 maps will show field boundaries etc, anything smaller scale won't.
    But if you're not even confident about following footpaths then my first para applies tenfold.
    I'm speaking from over 40 years hill walking experience. Bear in mind the rescue groups give their time voluntarily and put their lives on the line. Don't end up 'owing them one' when it's avoidable.
    And as has been hinted at - the best views aren't necessarily found from huge hills.
     
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  6. Nostromo

    Nostromo

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    Dominic
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    Check the weather out first. I took a 45min drive out yesterday only to find the weather was pants. Grey skies, drizzle mixed in with a strong breeze. All made for a bit of a waste of time photography wise.
     
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  7. StewartR

    StewartR Efrem Zimbalist Jr Advertiser

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    I agree 10000000%. I have only 33 years hill walking experience, but I think that's enough in this context. It's easy to think that the British landscape and British climate are pretty benign, but as soon as you're out on your own in the hills then things can get serious very quickly. Read any of annual reports published by the volunteer mountain rescue organisations (for example the Keswick one for 2016 is here - [click]) and you'll see any number of of incidents that start with someone slipping on wet ground or wet rocks. Thankfully, most such incidents are survivable. But if you've fractured your ankle, and you landed heavily on your phone so that's broken, and you don't know exactly where you are and your clothes are wet and it's raining and it's starting to get dark, then suddenly it's not fun any more.

    I know I'm a bit old fashioned here, but I really think it is not advisable to rely on mobile phones when you're out walking. What do you do if you find yourself with no signal, or no battery, or you've broken it or dropped it in water? By all means use all the technological aids you want when planning a walk, but when you're out in the hills your absolute best aid is an OS 1:25000 map and the ability to read it. If you don't know anyone you could walk with and learn from, there are people and organisations who run map reading and navigation courses for beginners. I'd suggest that's a very valuable investment if you want to get into this.
     
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  8. mickledore

    mickledore

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    100% agree with this. You mention Mountain Rescue. They tear their hair out over grockles using phones and getting into trouble.

    Get a map. A proper paper jobbie with lots of funny coloured squiggles on it and learn how to read it. And a compass as well. A Silva with rotating bezel. Otherwise you are an accident waiting to happen.

    But.....as far as starting out is concerned you need none if that. You can find more than enough locations on 't interweb that are little more than 5 minutes walk from a car park.

    Your local parks are good for pastoral scenes. Darwen Tower is so easy that a total novice can handle it. Try Rivington. Full of trippers but good for landscapes.

    Walk before you start to run.
     
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  9. woof woof

    woof woof

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    Alan
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    Just on clothing... I used to buy workwear clothing in and some of the stuff was really good. I bought some steel toe capped trainer style shoes for myself and years later they're still in very good condition and in fact they've worn better than my expensive brand walking shoes so I'd now always recommend that people looking for hardwearing clothing take a look at their local workwear dealer or check out a few workwear suppliers on line. Some of the gear is very good and cheaper than the branded walking/outdoor brands.
     
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  10. JED709

    JED709

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    Name:
    Dan
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    Thanks for everyones replies, I really appreciate it, I've probably come across a bit naive and maybe my point has been missed somewhat.

    I don't intend for one minute of jumping in the car at 3am in the middle of a snow storm and trying to climb Scafell Pike in the hope of the snowstorm clearing and getting a beautiful sunrise shot ha. Obviously that's on the complete extreme of the spectrum and will of course start slow and steady within my comfort zone. I think my point is I don't want to be one of those people ringing Mountain Rescue and as such want to be prepared as much as possible which is including the right bag to have which can hold spare clothes in case the weather suddenly changes, the right clothing to take with me in the first place etc. Going for a lengthy walk even when you're well aware of the area can catch you out with weather and what not such as Darwen Tower, Pendle Hill and Winter Hill which are local to me and have been up numerous times taking the dog for walks, going out with the children etc.

    Again with my third question I've probably come across naive. I will of course no matter what I primarily use for navigation bring a OS paper map and compass. It's been a while since I used a map but still remember how to follow a bearing, read contour lines and be able to give a gird reference in an emergency etc. However I will do more research again before I venture out. If I remember rightly the Explorer maps have different style green lines for public highways but really what my question should have been is are all footpaths leading from public roads with the green pointed arrow sign drawn on the Map? The reason I asked is Haslingden Road from Blackburn to Haslingden has numerous signs dotted along the road, looking at Bing Maps OS layer it seems they all are listed.

    Hope I've not come across as ungrateful for the advice given, I truly am grateful and as a beginner in photography you guys are the ones who I aim to replicate (I'm in no way expecting TH quality shots too ha!) Thank you for the replies on clothing and bags, I'll sure to have a look. Hopefully I'll get more replies.

    Thanks again, Dan
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 5:23 PM
  11. StewartR

    StewartR Efrem Zimbalist Jr Advertiser

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    OS 1:25000 maps should display all public footpaths, bridleways, etc, subject to (a) having sufficient space to able to display them clearly, and (b) the map being sufficiently current. If in doubt though, each local authority is required to maintain a Definitive Map of Public Rights Of Way in its area, and that should be ... err ... definitive. For example the one for Lancashire is here.

    I think it's reasonable to expect that if you see a sign indicating a public footpath, then it really is a public footpath. But conversely many public rights of way are not signposted and indeed some may not even be particularly apparent on the ground.
     
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  12. Jannyfox

    Jannyfox

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    Public rights of way (not always signed) should appear on the map. Look at the map key as there are footpaths, bridleways etc. Some paths which are not rights of way will also appear. Whether or not you have the right to use them depends on if they're on open land, enclosed land or enclosed land which is accessible under CROW. This should also be apparent from the map. However, just because a right of way exists on the map doesn't mean you'll see it on the ground. Here's where a decent scale map comes into its own. And the guys are spot on about mobile phones. I do most of my walking on Dartmoor with some in Scotland and in both places (one has mountains and one is more like a plateau with valleys) I'll have no signal more often that I have a signal. GPS, though, generally does work. A useful app is OS Locate (I think someone on here put me onto it) which uses GPS to give your position as a grid ref or lat/long. I also use MapMyWalk, which is useful afterwards to figure out how I turned a 10 mile walk into 15 (I don't plan too much and tend to just wander around. Don't do it.......).
    Always take more closthes than you think you'll need, and use layers. You can always take layers off, but you can't put on what you don't have with you (this from someone who arrived on Dartmoor for an all day winter walk and realised her fleece was draped over the stool in the kitchen. It was a very fast walk up every hill I could find!)
     
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  13. rob-nikon

    rob-nikon

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    Rob
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    A few suggestions would be:

    Kit:

    I've recently picked up a bothy shelter. They are cheap and much more than just an emergency use (that's partly what I got it for). They are good to get a little shelter out of the rain, to change a lens, have a bite to eat. I got one after reading one saved a couple of new walkers who got stuck and spent a night on Scafell earlier this year. I feel its better to have one and not really need it than need it and not have one.

    A good torch, maybe a head torch with spare batteries will be useful to as if you are out for sunrise/sunset it will likely be dark.

    Waterproofs for yourself and the camera/lens. You will definitely need them as the weather can change quickly, especially in the lakes where one valley can be completely different to another.

    A battery pack to charge up a phone is small and useful if you are not need a charger.


    Maps:

    Current OS 1:25000 maps come with a code for a free download version for a phone or tablet so you get the best of both worlds. Having a paper map and compass is always a good idea. The OS download map worked well with my iPhone, even with the phone on airport mode (the biggest battery killer is lack of signal and the phone constantly trying to find some) the GPS still worked pin pointing the location on the map. A map on a phone or tablet is useful but still no substitute for having a paper or laminated map and compass with you.

    Planning:

    Until recently I used sunrise/sunset calculators and bing maps but have since changed to OS Maps and TPE.

    OS maps subscription is quite good for setting up routes, getting an idea of elevations and downloading to phone or tablet for offline use. The 3D route mapping is quite useful. A years subscription can be got from Tesco club card for only £8 in club card vouchers, better than £20-24 per year.

    The Photographers elephemeris are great apps for planning shoots. More than just a sunrise/sunset calculator, you can see 3D views and how the light changes throughout the day and how it changes throughout the year. You can also see which lens is right for the view too. The three apps are £20 but I feel worth it, especially it it stops wasted trips out to new locations only to find the subject is in deep shadow at sunrise/sunset.


    There are plenty of places in the Lakes that are not far from the car park or within an easy walk.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 6:37 PM
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  14. droj

    droj

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    Use boots that you've tried and tested for comfortable fit with a given sock system (eg wicking liners / padded outers) - feet vary hugely and this is crucial to avoid blisters.

    Nylon trousers in particular are very quick-drying and polycotton are fairly good too. In spring / summer / autumn in Britain that means that you might dispense with carrying overtrousers, which is a valuable weight reduction. The thing to avoid is pure cotton (includes denim jeans), except on a guaranteed dry day in summer - it can hold moisture from rain or sweat like a sponge, which can lead to you getting chilled. The thing is to work with a worst scenario in mind - you are in wet clothes say, then you sprain an ankle and your mobility is compromised, so how are you going to keep warm as night descends? I'm not being melodramatic. It's a common sense consideration.

    A breathable waterprooof top is pretty de rigeur these days. Some designs are better than others, eg can you operate their fasteners right up to your chin when your fingers are stiff with cold? A rainproof layer also functions as a windproof to guard against chilling.

    Base layer tops generally need to wick, and not hold moisture like cotton does. The thing is, going up mountains is strenuous and you are bound to sweat far more than if walking in a park. Thus on the lower reaches of the hill you might want less clothing than for the walk in the park (because of the exertion), and on top of the hill you might need far more (because of altitude and wind-chill). As base layer and mid layer wool is a great fibre that can outperform synthetic fleece whilst also being organic! The top of a mountain even in the UK is a different world to that at its base, & can be very changeable.

    No way should anyone rely wholly on electronic equipment for navigation. Or for getting rescued, either - the basic mental attitude should be that you will be self-reliant, and certainly not be phoning for rescue if you have got yourself 'lost'!

    There's something called risk assessment, and in effect you are performing a risk assessment ahead of every footstep, though it's done in a flowing way - as you are about to step on a given stone, your attention is already a couple of stones ahead so that if the first stone isn't as stable as you thought, you are already in motion to the next ... and never take wet grass on a slope for granted - or wet rock, unless maybe it's gabbro.

    As for carrying your gear, much cheaper stuff and also much expensive stuff doesn't keep out persistent wind-driven rain at all well. Many rucsacs come with a rain cover, and you might ask why - to me it's an expression of failure by the manufacturer that their stuff doesn't keep the rain out very well. I've spent many hours on hills and none of my packs have ever had a rain cover because I've used packs that are good without one. Good, not perfect - nothing is.

    The same generally applies to camera cases. A good scheme if roaming widely and high in all weathers is to have camera equipment in cases or pouches that can be worn outside or put inside the rucsac. This gives a choice of single or double protection but the more protected, the less accessible it is, and sometimes the light can be mercurial ...

    So to accomodate the camera gear, outer clothing, food and drink ... maybe you need a pac of 35 or 40 litres?

    The considerations are endless but that's a start.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 8:52 PM
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  15. Andrew Benbow

    Andrew Benbow

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    If you are going on your own then a map and compass are, as others have said, essential, along with a whistle. I use the OS maps app on my phone and use the desktop app to put the routes on my Garmin GPS watch but I've always got a map of the area as a backup.

    If you want to take landscape photos in the Lakes then start with the easier locations - Buttermere, Derwent Water, Latrigg, Blea Tarn.

    There is a lovely set of locations starting at Ashness Landing, then Ashness Bridge, Surprise View and finally Watendlath. All of these are easily accessible from car parks and you just drive up one road, can't get lost! You won't need lots of expensive gear.

    Get a membership to the National Trust for free parking.

    If you want routes in the Lakes then http://www.andrewswalks.co.uk is great
     
  16. droj

    droj

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    This betrays a certain cast of mind. Do we go to the Cumbrian hills (and lakes) to take photographs as our prime motivation - or is our reason for being there to just 'be' there, and maybe to find a photograph if we see one? Are we being exploitative, or are we out to experience and celebrate the place as it is as a whole?

    To snap the same images as a thousand others have done before, or close variations of them? This sounds formulaic. Painting by numbers isn't what true photography is about.
     
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  17. Andrew Benbow

    Andrew Benbow

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    • A warning has been given for this post
    I was going to reply properly but honestly, f*** off you stuck up prick.
     
  18. JED709

    JED709

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    Dan
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    Again, thank you for the replies, never thought about a specific sock system before. I've also downloaded the TPE bundle and have £30 worth of club card points so will look into the OS Map subscription.

    As regards to shooting images which have been done before, I don't mind. If it helps me understand lighting, my camera settings and I'm happy with the final image it will be worthwhile. I don't plan on using any trip as just a photography one but to get out of the house and feel like I've accomplished something for the day with the added bonus of having an image to inspire me to get out more.
     
  19. Orangecroc

    Orangecroc

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    Ben
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    Totally unnecessary reaction to someone's opinion.
     
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  20. Nifkin

    Nifkin

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    Teeterlegs Jackson
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    Oof. I was going to ask why Andrew Benbow had deleted his messages in 22 of the 24 posts he'd made, then I found this one. Some people do get all het up, eh? :dummy:
     
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  21. simonkit

    simonkit

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    If you want to take the hard work out of finding locations and the best times etc to visit have a look at the Fotovue location guidebooks, they have them for the Lakes and Peak District (just released) http://www.fotovue.com/

    Simon
     
  22. mickledore

    mickledore

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    Is it?
    When will we be getting the ones we've paid for?
     
  23. TheBigYin

    TheBigYin Staff Member

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    Mark
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    well and truly out of order. have a forum holiday.
     
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  24. rob-nikon

    rob-nikon

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  25. mickledore

    mickledore

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    Thanks. I ordered 3 June (and paid!) but haven't had any e-mail.
    Que sera, sera.
    (That's giving my age away)
     
  26. rob-nikon

    rob-nikon

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    I hadn't ordered until after I received the email so it wasn't an update for pre orderers, more of a reminded they would soon be available.
     
  27. mickledore

    mickledore

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    Sorry. My mistake.
     
  28. droj

    droj

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    Just seen the response to my last post on this thread. Shocking! Think I'll flounce off and have a tantrum.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017 at 10:50 PM
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  29. simonkit

    simonkit

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