Plasma vs LED (here we go again)

arad85 said:
I disagree... it's not about brick wall tests, it's about the human visual system and its acuity. Some people have more or less than others, but the point is you really should go big or go home (look at the THX recommendations for example).

Yes, but not in a darkened room (we never watch in a darkened room due to eye strain discomfort). I found the effect quite weird - like viewing through a window - as it didn't fill my field of view enough (from memory it was a 42" or 50" system from about 8ft). On a similar note, have you got your TV playback system properly calibrated?

That's a big difference ;)
Click to expand...

It's not calibrated, TBH on the new sets I'm not sure you have that much finite control. The purists will probably hate this but I have it on a setting where the DVD player and TV talk to each other and the output is dynamically controlled from there. You'd think that could create issues but it really doesn't, to the human eye it looks perfect. I've not felt the need to adjust it.
 
odd jim said:
It's not calibrated, TBH on the new sets I'm not sure you have that much finite control. The purists will probably hate this but I have it on a setting where the DVD player and TV talk to each other and the output is dynamically controlled from there.
Click to expand...
The newer higher end sets can do a 10 point gamma control (i.e. you can get white "correct" at every 10% point and make sure you come out of black correctly) and you can move the primaries and secondaries to get them spot on so you have a properly calibrated response to a given input. It isn't about the comms between TV and BR player, this is about the absolute accuracy of the TV response. A properly calibrated TV "pops" and just looks right. Once you are used to it, you can see how badly people have their TVs setup. It is, however, more difficult to do than a monitor calibration and is WAY different to how the sets come out of the box which is designed for maximum impact in a shop.
 
arad85 said:
The newer higher end sets can do a 10 point gamma control (i.e. you can get white "correct" at every 10% point and make sure you come out of black correctly) and you can move the primaries and secondaries to get them spot on so you have a properly calibrated response to a given input. It isn't about the comms between TV and BR player, this is about the absolute accuracy of the TV response. A properly calibrated TV "pops" and just looks right. Once you are used to it, you can see how badly people have their TVs setup. It is, however, more difficult to do than a monitor calibration and is WAY different to how the sets come out of the box which is designed for maximum impact in a shop.
Click to expand...

It does have gamma correction, I'll give it a go. Interestingly I see THX have made an iOS app that helps you do so, I'll give that a whirl :)
 
Last edited:
Gentle hint: note any settings you have before you start... just in case ;) :D
 
PS. If you have a calibration device head over to here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed and also look at: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

There is A LOT of information there. Ignore the HCFR setup in the Curt Palme forum - the latest versions are slightly different. The tutorial and information in that thread though is invaluable - especially on how to calibrate and why you do it.

If you have the ability to create/play computer files through your DR or DVD, you can download test disks here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration They are especially good for setting brightness and contrast correctly on video material (video is contained in 16..235, not 0..255). Also bear in mind that if you have a plasma, the total drive of the panel is limited - if you display a white screen, you are very likely to get a different answer than if you display a square covering 10% of the screen.
 
I have always bought lcd/led samsung tvs. But recently have been looking at plasma for my next upgrade. My tv gets used for kids tv and gaming.

Plasma tvs have less lag/better refresh than led tvs for the most part so if ur doing alot of gaming this might be a consideration
 
pmac said:
I have always bought lcd/led samsung tvs. But recently have been looking at plasma for my next upgrade. My tv gets used for kids tv and gaming.

Plasma tvs have less lag/better refresh than led tvs for the most part so if ur doing alot of gaming this might be a consideration
Click to expand...

They might have better refresh in some cases, but they are prone to flicker. Giveth with one hand, take with the other.
 
tbh, I couldn't care less about 3D simply because I lack true binocular vision to see it anyway.

A bad film is a bad film despite it's special effects, however it's purely an opinion of each person of what's good and bad, each to their own.

Back on topic, I have an LG 42" plasma screen, I use for watching films and gaming, the black levels are superb, better than LCD imho.
LED screens are thinner, lighter and therefore easier to mount on the wall than plasma or LCD screens.
LED screens like plasmas have good black levels and colour saturation.

only you can decide, go test a few out.

:)
 
neil_g said:
I've never seen a plasma flicker personally. But nobody I know has a cheap and/or low end one.
Click to expand...

It matters not whether its cheap or high end (are there any cheap plasmas?), its inherent to all plasma panels.

Some people are more susceptible to it, I'm pretty sensitive. Its very obvious when I walk into Currys, some of the sets have an obvious flicker (the plasmas) and the LCD/LED sets dont flicker at all! However, as with CRT, if you are looking at one set in a living room it wont be so apparent as its mainly the periferal vision thats affected, but its still there.
 
Last edited:
Re flicker. What do you mean? My Lanny G30 has a slight refresh flicker if the screen is mostly bright and on a 50hz refresh, but I've not noticed anything on my Pioneer at any refresh. That's more than offset by better motion handling, better blacks and more life like colours. Even at Pioneer prices, they are still consumer grade displays. Neither LCD or plasma are perfect.
 
Seen a Sony 4K one yesterday, my that's a giant leap forward in detail.
 
neil_g said:
all we need now are the sources and content :D

always makes me laugh that they put the advert for those screens on SD channels. looks awful...
Click to expand...

Sort of a travelogue, well worth a wee visit to John Lewis though!

Apparently it upscales most things to 4K too.
 
I've just put my money where my mouth (or should that be fingers) is... Just put a deposit (to make sure I get one in 4 weeks when I have the money) on a 65" Panasonic 65VT65.

Now... how to play musical chairs with a 50" Pioneer. The bedroom already has a decent enough 50" in.... looks like it will have to become a bedroom set for a 13 year old! :eek:

#firstworldproblems
 
odd jim said:
Well, I won't argue with the sales figures for tickets as I've not looked at that side of it, though the last three 3d screenings I went to (Star Trek Into Darkness, World War Z and Thor Dark World) were completely sold out, and these weren't Friday night premiers either. I still see demand for 3d movies. As for broadcast TV, that was never going to work, people simply aren't interested in that sort of 3d content.

Your ascertains about home 3d aren't quite right, though I see why you might have come to that conclusion. Bluray 3d through active systems is different to the passive experience at the cinema. As the glasses talk to the TV, the images are brighter, sharper and far better defined than at the cinema. The colours are spot on too. IMO it's a far better experience in the living room. And you don't need to sit within a few feet of the tv, if you did that you'd end up with severe eye strain. I run my system from a 55" TV viewed from about 20 feet away and it's totally emersive. The 3d effect created the illusion that the TV is actually bigger than it is. Combine that with a darkened room and full surround sound and it's movie heaven.

As for Gravity, it was filmed in 3d by a director who intended the film to be seen in 3d, hense why 80% are viewing it in 3d. Directors are now using the format to create that immersive experience (rather than just making things jump out at you), with more films being shot in 3d for that purpose. Of course, not all movies are suitable for the format, which is why it has to be done properly and appropriately.

The PS4 and Xbox One also support active 3d, this will open a new era of 3d gaming.


I write this as someone who, when the format first came out in its present format, had no time for 3d. That was until I watched Life of PI in the format, at home. I was blown away.
Click to expand...


DO NOT get me started on 3D!!!!!:runaway:
 
Umm I've just ordered a Panasonic TX-P50VT65B set from John Lewis, 5yr guarantee included, oh and a Panny Bluray player - coming Wednesday!!

:banana:

Now off to AV Forums to check what kind of picture settings, can't afford a professional calibration till the New Year.

V excited!
 
Chatting to guys in the trade.... The main reason for panasonic pulling the plug on plasma... Is all down to the "General Public!" Wanting 'A' rated Tv's... But Heh! What do i know!

Give me a Pioneer plasma anyday! Panny's have just got to the level pioneer were at 4 years ago!
And as fir wearing glasses to watch a film.... Not for me, personally.
Regards Steve
 
Holy thread resurrection Batman...

odd jim said:
Out of interest, have you viewed a Bluray 3d on a properly set up system?
Click to expand...


and..

arad85 said:
I've just put my money where my mouth (or should that be fingers) is... Just put a deposit (to make sure I get one in 4 weeks when I have the money) on a 65" Panasonic 65VT65.
Click to expand...

Well, more than 4 weeks have passed and I now have a 65" 3D TV :D. We've had it for 2 weeks and I have tried a couple of 3D movies but can't get past the flicker and slight judder-i-ness (which isn't there if I watch the same movie in 2D) nor the perceived reduction in picture size - I don't know why I see this but I do. It's also like looking through a window to watch the movie (and that's a 65" set from 10 feet!) and colours and brightness would need calibrating further through the glasses (I've not properly calibrated the set yet, but already I think it is better than my properly calibrated Pioneer LX508D in straight 2D mode). To me- and everyone else I've shown it to - I'm just watching special effects and it gets in the way of the story. If I could have bought the same panel in a 2D only version and saved £50, I would.

By the way, the 50" TVs we have now look like 14" portables by comparison... I can thoroughly recommend BIG TVs :D
 
I've not noticed flickering or juddering on 3d movies on my LED panel? That said, at 24 fps (which is the movie standard) you'll always get a little judder on panning shots and bluray transfers are true to the original film in that aspect (as opposed to DVDs).
 
odd jim said:
I've not noticed flickering or juddering on 3d movies on my LED panel? That said, at 24 fps (which is the movie standard) you'll always get a little judder on panning shots and bluray transfers are true to the original film in that aspect (as opposed to DVDs).
Click to expand...
Believe me, I'm fully aware of panning and frame rate conversion judder - I've been watching BRs since they came out and I probably shouldn't have used the word TBH. This effect is to do with the glasses and their syncing with the panel I think - just not as natural as when you watch it without. My point was, I've tried 3D, on a reference level set which are on settings that are as good as I can get without a full calibration (which I will do in the next few weeks), in my own living room (i.e. it's as properly setup as most people get) and it does nothing for me - if I could have saved money buying a 2D version, I would have.
 
I saw this the other day.

http://www.lg.com/uk/tvs/lg-55EA980W

Beats plasma IMO. Prices will continue to drop. Currently around £4500. Worth waiting for if you're thinking of upgrading.
 
Passive 3d doesn't suffer from the flicker issue :)

Love 3d, Not for the ott, but for subtle bits. Adding depth to the scene etc.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Beats plasma IMO.
Click to expand...
It isn't just the screen tech that is important with TVs though - at least, not until we standardise on progressive broadcasts which will be beyond my lifetime. But anyway, it'll be a few years yet before you can get a 65" OLED for ~£3k IMHO and in the meantime....

Dale_tem said:
Passive 3d doesn't suffer from the flicker issue :)
Click to expand...
Which pushes you to an LCD TV for the moment with all the downsides that entails. But that would still leave the window effect, having to wear glasses, separate calibration settings for 3D vs 2D and lack of content.
 
arad85 said:
It isn't just the screen tech that is important with TVs though - at least, not until we standardise on progressive broadcasts which will be beyond my lifetime. But anyway, it'll be a few years yet before you can get a 65" OLED for ~£3k IMHO and in the meantime....

Which pushes you to an LCD TV for the moment with all the downsides that entails. But that would still leave the window effect, having to wear glasses, separate calibration settings for 3D vs 2D and lack of content.
Click to expand...

Ok I've watched a couple of Bluray's with this in mind to be sure, but there is definitely no discernible flicker on my LED/LCD set with active 3d... It must be a syncing issue?
 
odd jim said:
but there is definitely no discernible flicker on my LED/LCD set with active 3d... It must be a syncing issue?
Click to expand...
It's going to be person dependent. Basically the active glasses alternate left/right on fields so you only see half the refresh rate on each eye (and I have no idea what rate the panny does this at on a 24Hz film). Some people are more susceptible to "seeing" the flicker. It is minor, but noticeable for me...
 
Just bought myself a Panasonic TX-42ST60 :). I already had a 37" Panasonic Plasma but I couldn't bear the thought of having to buy a LCD if it went pop before OLEDs were affordable :(

*The shop were also stunned that Panasonic have stopped making them !
 
Having gone from a 37 to a 50 inch panel I can understand where arads at with his 65! Bigger is better, I just cannot get all the av forum whinging about problems with Panasonic plasmas, all of mine just look fabulous, even uncalibrated
 
Mad Badger said:
Bigger is better, I just cannot get all the av forum whinging about problems with Panasonic plasmas, all of mine just look fabulous, even uncalibrated
Click to expand...
Ha... You should try visiting photography forums... Full of people claiming lenses aren't sharp, their autofocus doesn't work properly on expensive cameras, high ISO noise as well as a multitude of other things that others don't see...

TBH, with 2 large Panasonics (one "high end", one cheap) and a Pioneer, I can see what people are complaining about most of the time on avforum, but it's definitely relative - the TVs I have do most things extremely well. You have to remember the price point we are at here. We are not at £10k + for a reference broadcast monitor, we are at a few £k for large consumer displays that have to be mass produced.

On reflection, I will definitely have to calibrate mine. There is a slight green tinge to skin tones at the moment which (I think) is also pushing blonde hair towards yellow. BTW, Pioneers aren't without fault either (and that's from someone who spent more on his 50" Pioneer than 65" Panny) - in fact, I think there are more "issues" with my fully calibrated LX508D than the uncalibrated 65VT65. Still the two best TVs I've owned though.
 
May start a new thread for this, got make mkv to rip bluray discs, copied a disc fine to the laptop, question is, why won't my lovely Panasonic tv read the file off the laptop! Says file type unsupported, help me arad ;-)
 
rather than start a new thread....

We are looking for a new TV to replace our trusty old 42" Philips plasma which is relegated to another room. Very limited budget, has to be under £500 and the bigger, the better as this one will be wall mounted. A huge amount of hdmi connects isnt important as everything will be run through a receiver. TV will come courtesy of a Virgin TV and most video via a WDTV Live. Never really bothered with BR (although I do have a PS3 to view them if need be) and full HD isn't a neccessity as long as it has a very good 720 display.

I know it's an older unit and only 720, but does anyone have any experience with a Panasonic TXP50X60B? Unfortunately RS or JL no longer sell them to bag a 5 year warranty but for £379 from Sainsburys it sounds like a lot of TV for a very good price......
 
antihero said:
does anyone have any experience with a Panasonic TXP50X60B?
Click to expand...

Got one on Boxing day from Tesco for £299.
Sound is terrible, but i run everything through my amp/speakers.
Colour isn't bad apart from the red is awkward to correct.
Standard freeview looks awful, anything 720p looks decent though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top