Police caution for using a tripod on Hampstead Heath

Paul Griffin said:
So if I'm on Hampstead Heath and I spot someone using a tripod should I dial 999 or 101?
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The parks constables office i'd suggest - the number will be on the byelaws sign
 
If it's one of these tripods, run!!

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Steve.
 
Paul Griffin said:
So if I'm on Hampstead Heath and I spot someone using a tripod should I dial 999 or 101?
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Do you really have to ask that??

Would you deem it an emergency?! There's the answer!...

Personally I wouldn't bother calling anyone.
 
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odd jim said:
Are you serious? I honestly can't tell if this is a wind up...
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His trolling game is weak - given that he started the thread about this in the first place.

that aside as i said earlier if anyone does have a burning desire to report a byelaw being broken on hampstead heath - call the park constables , who are the only police who'll remotely give a teeny s*** (in the original article the park cops weren't called because of the tripod , and probably only attended in case mr shouty got physical - the tropd thing only came up after they'd arrived ...
 
Don't feed the troll!
 
I'm not trying to troll, I'm merely trying to highlight how ridiculous the situation is.

big soft moose said:
in the original article the park cops weren't called because of the tripod , and probably only attended in case mr shouty got physical - the tropd thing only came up after they'd arrived ...
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Nevertheless once on the scene they did issue a fixed penalty notice (I think we have established that's what it was?) for the grave crime of using a tripod.
 
To sum up:
  • Taking a photo of a jogger on Hampstead Heath is perfectly legal
  • Taking the exact same photo but using a tripod without a permit is a crime
  • The advice of the UK government and the Metropolitan police is that if you are reporting a crime that is in progress you should dial 999
  • Dialling 999 to report someone for using a tripod would be ridiculous but would be in accordance with government advice
  • The law is ridiculous and should be changed!
Anyone agree or disagree?
 
With this & the 4 year old on a bike, I might go looking for a bow & arrow to try out and scare all the Welsh out of Chester.

I dare say they'll uphold some laws and not others though...
 
Don't call 999 it will only be me acting like a nob to see what tripods are acceptable.

I'll start by putting my tripod on a trolley - surley that a mobility aid rather then an erection?
 
Paul Griffin said:
To sum up:
  • Taking a photo of a jogger on Hampstead Heath is perfectly legal
  • Taking the exact same photo but using a tripod without a permit is a crime
  • The advice of the UK government and the Metropolitan police is that if you are reporting a crime that is in progress you should dial 999
  • Dialling 999 to report someone for using a tripod would be ridiculous but would be in accordance with government advice
  • The law is ridiculous and should be changed!
Anyone agree or disagree?
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The advice of the UK government is to only call 999 in an emergency. A crime in progress only relates to one considered an emergency.

A breach of bylaws is not an emergency.

Have we lost all concept of common sense here?!

Just to humour you (as I'm sure you must be trolling) your own reference from the MET clearly states, on the same page;

"Do not call 999 for calls, which are not an emergency. It will tie up an operator and delay a police response to someone who may actually require the police, but is unable to get through."

But did this really need to be pointed out or are you being pedantic for the sake of it?
 
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Paul Griffin said:
When using a tripod is a criminal offence? Yes, I think we have.

Actually, I haven't linked to the Met yet, but this page on their website clearly states:

Always call 999 when a crime is happening, someone suspected of a crime is nearby, someone is injured, being threatened or in danger.

http://content.met.police.uk/Site/101
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They mean proper crimes.

But Ok, if you want to ring 999 if you see someone using a tripod, you go for it.

Be prepared to give them your full details for the fixed penalty for misuse of the 999 system when they arrive. And yes, you will have to give them your details :)
 
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A crime is a crime, there are no 'proper crimes'. What would be the opposite, 'improper crimes'?
 
Further clarification from the Met:

"999 should only be used in an emergency. An emergency is when someone is at risk of getting injured, bring threatened or a crime or is being committed and is in progress.

The police should only be called on 999 when: ........

A crime is in progress. Examples include assault, burglary, and theft or if an offender is still on scene, or has just left the scene.

Non-emergency calls – When to call the 101 number ......

This number should be used for all other enquires, advice on police matters and to report crimes which have already happened, where there is no sign of an offender."

http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Emergency-Calls--When-to-call-999/1400011683328/1400011683328

So if the offender is still using the tripod or is still nearby, dial 999. If they've already cleared off dial 101.

 
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Paul, despite your emphasis on those sentences, it's fair to say most adults understand what they mean, and it's not to call 999 if you see someone dropping litter, putting up illegal posters, failing to have fresh straw in their hackney carriage, urinating in public (all proper crimes, none of them an emergency) or erecting a tripod on Hampstead Heath.
 
odd jim said:
They mean proper crimes.
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Paul Griffin said:
A crime is a crime, there are no 'proper crimes'.
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As Jim has already stated. Use common sense. If a person or even property is in danger or is likely to be in danger, it's 999. Otherwise, it's not an emergency.

Paul Griffin said:
So if the offender is still using the tripod or is still nearby, dial 999. If they've already cleared off dial 101.
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Or as I suggested yesterday... just ignore it.


Steve.
 
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Steve Smith said:
As Jim has already stated. Use common sense. If a person or even property is in danger or is likely to be in danger, it's 999. Otherwise, it's not an emergency.


Or as I suggested yesterday... just ignore it.


Steve.
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or as ive said for or five times now if you really must - call the park police on the number they provide - the 999 callcentre would refer a call to the Met who i'm pretty certain don't give a toss about byelaws. (and thus all the links to the MET site are irrelevant , because the met are not the service charged with enforcing the hampstead heath byelaws)
 
Hi all,

Just of interest, I Googled this story and found the relevant bylaw cited on another forum. It reads:

Buildings and Obstructions
11. No person shall in any open space, without first obtaining or otherwise than in accordance with the terms of a permit from the Council, erect or place or retain any post, rail, fence, photographic stand apparatus, tent, booth, screen, stand, swing or other building,, erection or structure or any obstruction of any kind whatever

Admittedly, it does initially sound ridiculous to forbid the use of a tripod. However, I *think* it had something to do with those dodgy 'photographers' who you find in London who con tourists into parting with their cash for a 'professional' photograph with the empty promise of posting it on to them. Or, maybe, it's just to do with preventing people erecting clutter... I'm not suggesting a tripod would be, but it stops someone claiming their [insert shabby structure here] is in fact a '...photographic stand, officer'.

In this instance, I think it was just a chance for the cops to get one over on a big-fish journo. I doubt this happens very often. If I were to speculate, it is possible that Mr Rusbridger may have come across as a bit of a smarty-pants with "I was pretty confident it wasn’t an offence to use an iPhone in a public place" and thus failed the 'attitude test' with the OIC. Anyway, props to the bobby for knowing his stuff... and posing for the subsequent photoshoot, for that matter.

Regards,

Sam
 
Me again,

Not wishing to get too involved with whole 999 / 101 thing, but when considering proper use of 999, when they speak of '...or a crime is being committed', that generally means a crime which is defined under common law; such as theft, assault and the like.

Sam
 
Sam B said:
Hi all,

Just of interest, I Googled this story and found the relevant bylaw cited on another forum. It reads:

Buildings and Obstructions
11. No person shall in any open space, without first obtaining or otherwise than in accordance with the terms of a permit from the Council, erect or place or retain any post, rail, fence, photographic stand apparatus, tent, booth, screen, stand, swing or other building,, erection or structure or any obstruction of any kind whatever

Admittedly, it does initially sound ridiculous to forbid the use of a tripod. However, I *think* it had something to do with those dodgy 'photographers' who you find in London who con tourists into parting with their cash for a 'professional' photograph with the empty promise of posting it on to them. Or, maybe, it's just to do with preventing people erecting clutter... I'm not suggesting a tripod would be, but it stops someone claiming their [insert shabby structure here] is in fact a '...photographic stand, officer'.

In this instance, I think it was just a chance for the cops to get one over on a big-fish journo. I doubt this happens very often. If I were to speculate, it is possible that Mr Rusbridger may have come across as a bit of a smarty-pants with "I was pretty confident it wasn’t an offence to use an iPhone in a public place" and thus failed the 'attitude test' with the OIC. Anyway, props to the bobby for knowing his stuff... and posing for the subsequent photoshoot, for that matter.

Regards,

Sam
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given that is a 1932 byelaw the original target was probably the sort 'take your picture gov' fly trader who once was to be found in preponderance, but now belongs to a bygone age - that'll also be why it says photographic stand apparatus, rather than tripod

that said , as i said earlier the main target of 'any errection' byelaws are usually illicit campers
 
on the whole 999 thing the Met website could be clearer - Leicestershire police (and i found much the same from most of the other county forces) are far more explicit

You should only ring the 999 system if There is a direct and immediate threat to life / limb or to property.
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common sense would dictate that this will apply to the Met as well
 
Sam B said:
Me again,

Not wishing to get too involved with whole 999 / 101 thing, but when considering proper use of 999, when they speak of '...or a crime is being committed', that generally means a crime which is defined under common law; such as theft, assault and the like.

Sam
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... and if a crime is defined by statute?
 
big soft moose said:
given that is a 1932 byelaw the original target was probably the sort 'take your picture gov' fly trader who once was to be found in preponderance, but now belongs to a bygone age - that'll also be why it says photographic stand apparatus, rather than tripod

that said , as i said earlier the main target of 'any errection' byelaws are usually illicit campers
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Hi,

Those fly-traders still exist... one kindly offered to take my picture just outside of Euston a few years back. Well, me and a few friends. We were off to watch the Rugby.

Sam
 
DemiLion said:
... and if a crime is defined by statute?
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I feel offences which fall under common law are reasonably all-encompassing of incidents which may occur that may demand a swift response in order to prevent further harm or loss. Do you not agree?

Sam
 
big soft moose said:
on the whole 999 thing the Met website could be clearer - Leicestershire police (and i found much the same from most of the other county forces) are far more explicit



common sense would dictate that this will apply to the Met as well
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If you're referring to the story, I think the red chequers denote City of London police, rather than the Metropolitan.
 
Sam B said:
If you're referring to the story, I think the red chequers denote City of London police, rather than the Metropolitan.
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I think they do to - but i was refereing to the links the OP puts up from the Met website about when to call 999

Common sense would dictate that the bit i posted applies to all forces in the UK
 
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Sam B said:
If you're referring to the story, I think the red chequers denote City of London police, rather than the Metropolitan.
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Nope, they denote a police force commissioned by the Corporation of London. Subtle difference.
 
The difference being that Hampstead Heath Constabulary are not part of the CoLP.
 
Ah I see. Well CoLP have red chequers too then.

Sam

Edit: In fact, and as I suspected, the Hampstead Heath coppers do appear to be part of the CoLP... they're both commissioned by the City of London Corporation. Every day's a school day eh?
 
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big soft moose said:
I think they do to - but i was refereing to the links the OP puts up from the Met website about when to call 999

Common sense would dictate that the bit i posted applies to all forces in the UK
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I do agree with the points about using common sense before dialling 999. Even though following government and Met advice to the letter would suggest dialling 999, common sense dictates otherwise (I said before that dialling 999 would be ridiculous). It's just that common sense also suggests it shouldn't be a crime to use a tripod on Hampstead Heath, doesn't it?
 
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