Possibly stoopid question about extension tubes.

mickledore

mickledore

Messages
9,372
Edit My Images
Yes
I'm dipping my toes into the macro world.
Got myself what looks to be a very good legacy lens. It needs an adaptor to fit on my X-T2. No problem there. No connections so full manual. I can handle that.

But....when I look at the adaptor I start wondering what is the difference between this plain length of tube and a fully manual extension tube. Apart from no size number printed on the outside they look the same.

In practical terms is there a difference and if so what is it? Is there any point in adding further tubes?
 
Further tubes will increase the size of the image but you'll have to get closer to the subject.

I'd imagine the "adaptor" is just the correct length for the lens to become a 1:1 macro lens.

I'd surmise a normal extension tube around that length will give you the same results Frank.

A tube is a tube is a tube etc.

I had good results with my D700 with the nifty 50 and manual focus extension tubes.
 
Thanks Terry. That was my way of thinking too.
The adaptor is quite hefty so I don't want to be adding too much extra or I'll have to be right on top of whatever I'm shooting.
 
Careful where you source the adaptor or tubes - air quality may have varied in their country of origin so could affect IQ... :p (However, an adaptor that measures 10mm from flange to flange will do exactly the same as a 10mm extension tube.)

FWIW, I think a lot of people are getting great results from their 18-55 lenses on extension tubes while retaining AF and electronic aperture control - why make life difficult and go fully manual?
 
Nod said:
FWIW, I think a lot of people are getting great results from their 18-55 lenses on extension tubes while retaining AF and electronic aperture control - why make life difficult and go fully manual?
Click to expand...

Does not get you to 1:1 if that's your bag

mickledore said:
Thanks Terry. That was my way of thinking too.
The adaptor is quite hefty so I don't want to be adding too much extra or I'll have to be right on top of whatever I'm shooting.
Click to expand...

DOF changes as well with extension tubes, it can get mighty shallow very fast!!!
 
And as you get smaller FOV you will have to increase the amount of illumination, this starts to become really apparent as you go below 1:1, as your object is now smaller then the sensor, so the light across the FOV will be effectively shared across the sensor!!

With extension tubes, opening up the aperture to improve the illumination might be very difficult as the DOF will disappear!!!!
 
Thanks guys.
It's just an itch that I want to scratch.
It was re-awakened at Digital Splash when I was playing with the new Fuji 80mm macro lens. I can't see me becoming a regular crawler through muck and brambles, but the weather up here has been carp for the past couple of months and I'm going stir crazy. Roughly speaking if it ain't raining right now then it's just about to!

So I thought I'd have a play. I'm not going to spend £1200 on the Fuji, but for £100 I've picked up a stonking good Tamron legacy lens. Olympus fit so I need an adaptor which is something like 25mm in depth. That seems pretty big to me and I didn't think there'd be much point in adding extra tubes, as Terry says - a tube is a tube.

This will give me 1:1 and if I'm going to play around I might as well go the whole hog. I've got flash guns, triggers etc, and brackets to mount them on, all lying unloved in the spares box. For £100 or so it's worth a play. I can always sell up and more or less get my money back. The moment I buy the Fuji 80mm macro I'd lose more than this lot has cost me. Will I get anything worthwile? As ever that's in the lap of the Gods.

FWIW @Mr Perceptive did you see there were 90mph winds at Capel Curig yesterday? Not a day for Australia Level!
 
mickledore said:
Thanks guys.
It's just an itch that I want to scratch.
It was re-awakened at Digital Splash when I was playing with the new Fuji 80mm macro lens. I can't see me bcoming a regular crawler through muck and brambles, but the weather up here has been carp for the past couple of months and I'm going stir crazy. Roughly speaking if it ain't raining right now then it's just about to!

So I thought I'd have a play. I'm not going to spend £1200 on the Fuji, but for £100 I've picked up a stonking good Tamron legacy lens. Olympus fit so I need an adaptor which is something like 25mm in depth. That seems pretty big to me and I didn't think there'd be much point in adding extra tubes, as Terry says - a tube is a tube.

This will give me 1:1 and if I'm going to play around I might as well go the whole hog. I've got flash guns, triggers etc, and brackets to mount them on, all lying unloved in the spares box. For £100 or so it's worth a play. I can always sell up and more or less get my money back. The moment I buy the Fuji 80mm macro I'd lose more than this lot has cost me. Will I get anything worthwile? As ever that's in the lap of the Gods.

FWIW @Mr Perceptive did you see there were 90mph winds at Capel Curig yesterday? Not a day for Australia Level!
Click to expand...

But the sensor position relative to the flange means that the Olympus adapter will put the lens focus in the right place for that lens for your Fuji sensor. Remember the original Olympus camera would have had a mirror box etc.

If the lens will go to 1:1 as is, then extension tubes will allow you to get in even closer, though you may not want to.

Yes I did see the wind speeds!!!
 
Mr Perceptive said:
But the sensor position relative to the flange means that the Olympus adapter will put the lens focus in the right place for that lens for your Fuji sensor. Remember the original Olympus camera would have had a mirror box etc.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that the adapter will not have any effect as a tube?
 
OK. Thanks guys. I didn't know that.
So I get 1:1 without tubes. Result!
That will do for now.
 
Seen your other post so know which lens it is that you've got. As said on that thread, you'll want/need the extra tube/converter to use it to its full potential but it is a great lens. IIRC it's closer to f/5.6 (or smaller) at full magnification.

On a side note, I must have a play with the tubes and a telecon to see what they can be persuaded to do!
 
Thanks Nod. The convertor should be here in a day or two. Just playing around this afternoon and the images are very good indeed. Looks like I've stumbled on a good lens!
Nod said:
On a side note, I must have a play with the tubes and a telecon to see what they can be persuaded to do!
Click to expand...
I hope that's not a challenge!
 
mickledore said:
OK. Thanks guys. I didn't know that.
So I get 1:1 without tubes. Result!
That will do for now.
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell, you’re talking about two different things.

OM > Fuji adaptor - Physically mounts the OM fit lens to the Fuji body and spaces the lens away from the sensor to match the original flange depth (as Ken said above). This gets you to the standard portion/magnification for the lens, now fitted to your Fuji body.

Extension Tube - Moves the lens forwards from its’ flange depth so increases magnification accordingly. This would be mounted between the lens and the OM>Fuji adaptor.
 
Thank you @stevelmx5

As a relative newcomer to the world of the small I was unsure if the adaptor functioned just to restore the status quo or if it had, by accident or design, some other function akin to what tubes achieve.

Everybody has been very helpful on this thread.
FTB I'm going to use just the adaptor and see what happens. There's a guy selling a pair of Fuji tubes on here for £100. I'm not into that league though I'm sure I can pick some oriental copies up for far less than that.

Who knows what the future holds. If this weather persists I could soon become an expert!
 
mickledore said:
Thank you @stevelmx5

As a relative newcomer to the world of the small I was unsure if the adaptor functioned just to restore the status quo or if it had, by accident or design, some other function akin to what tubes achieve.

Everybody has been very helpful on this thread.
FTB I'm going to use just the adaptor and see what happens. There's a guy selling a pair of Fuji tubes on here for £100. I'm not into that league though I'm sure I can pick some oriental copies up for far less than that.

Who knows what the future holds. If this weather persists I could soon become an expert!
Click to expand...

A tip for the extension tubes, buy a set of any brand OM fit tubes from EBay for £10 and mount them between the lens and your OM>Fuji adaptor. Spending £100 on Fuji tubes just moves them to the other side of the OM>Fuji adaptor and gives you no benefit with your manual focus lens. I’m guessing they have electrical contacts in them to retain AF on Fuji lenses but AF and Macro don’t go together very well!
 
I’m sure you will get some great images as it’s a cracking lens I’ve owned a couple of them in the past:)
And you will get a greater magnification using it on a crop sensor as it was made back in the days of full frame film cameras.
 
Phiggys said:
I’m sure you will get some great images as it’s a cracking lens I’ve owned a couple of them in the past:)
And you will get a greater magnification using it on a crop sensor as it was made back in the days of full frame film cameras.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Everyone seems to rate the lens. It looks like it hardly been used. Nice and smooth operation. Think I've struck lucky!
 
stevelmx5 said:
A tip for the extension tubes, buy a set of any brand OM fit tubes from EBay for £10 and mount them between the lens and your OM>Fuji adaptor. Spending £100 on Fuji tubes just moves them to the other side of the OM>Fuji adaptor and gives you no benefit with your manual focus lens. I’m guessing they have electrical contacts in them to retain AF on Fuji lenses but AF and Macro don’t go together very well!
Click to expand...

Sure I have the seen cheap £10 sets in Fuji mount on fleabay.
They would make more sense as they could be used with other mounts and the tubes wont be restricted to just OM mount lenses.
 
stevelmx5 said:
A tip for the extension tubes, buy a set of any brand OM fit tubes from EBay for £10 and mount them between the lens and your OM>Fuji adaptor. Spending £100 on Fuji tubes just moves them to the other side of the OM>Fuji adaptor and gives you no benefit with your manual focus lens. I’m guessing they have electrical contacts in them to retain AF on Fuji lenses but AF and Macro don’t go together very well!
Click to expand...


I would tend to agree with this but would add that the Fuji tubes (when used with Fuji lenses) with the contacts will allow the camera to sense/control the aperture as well as allowing AF (should you be tempted to try it in macros!). A set of them through Amazon was about a tenner a few months ago. Not sure where the air in either will come from... ;)
 
Nod said:
I would tend to agree with this but would add that the Fuji tubes (when used with Fuji lenses) with the contacts will allow the camera to sense/control the aperture as well as allowing AF (should you be tempted to try it in macros!). A set of them through Amazon was about a tenner a few months ago. Not sure where the air in either will come from... ;)
Click to expand...

That’s a valid point for native lenses if they don’t have manual aperture control. However, as the OP is using a manual OM fit Tamron lens, the only real benefit is if they want to use the extension tubes with another lens.
 
Nod said:
I would tend to agree with this but would add that the Fuji tubes (when used with Fuji lenses) with the contacts will allow the camera to sense/control the aperture as well as allowing AF (should you be tempted to try it in macros!). A set of them through Amazon was about a tenner a few months ago. Not sure where the air in either will come from...
Click to expand...

stevelmx5 said:
That’s a valid point for native lenses if they don’t have manual aperture control. However, as the OP is using a manual OM fit Tamron lens, the only real benefit is if they want to use the extension tubes with another lens.
Click to expand...

Thanks guys. Believe it or not I woke up at 1:23AM thinking about this!
As Steve says I'm using a non Fuji lens so tubes with contacts are of no benefit at all. They would come into play if I got serious and bought the Fuji macro, but that's a long way off, if it ever happens. If I buy tubes in the near future they will just be cheapo Chinese gear for £10 or so. I'm happy to write that off if I progress.

Another assumption on my part....does it matter which side of the adaptor the tubes are fitted? Obviously Olympus on the lens side and Fuji on the body side of the adaptor. Is there any real difference in practical terms?

You guys are superb with your knowledge.

2x convertor arrived today. That too looks like it's hardly been used.
 
mickledore said:
Thanks guys. Believe it or not I woke up at 1:23AM thinking about this!
As Steve says I'm using a non Fuji lens so tubes with contacts are of no benefit at all. They would come into play if I got serious and bought the Fuji macro, but that's a long way off, if it ever happens. If I buy tubes in the near future they will just be cheapo Chinese gear for £10 or so. I'm happy to write that off if I progress.

Another assumption on my part....does it matter which side of the adaptor the tubes are fitted? Obviously Olympus on the lens side and Fuji on the body side of the adaptor. Is there any real difference in practical terms?

You guys are superb with your knowledge.

2x convertor arrived today. That too looks like it's hardly been used.
Click to expand...

It doesn’t make any difference which side of the adaptor the tubes are fitted. They’re literally just a spacer. However, I’d suggest getting to grips with shooting macro without the tubes first because that’s frustrating enough sometimes! Adding the tubes means much shallower depth of field and extra lighting required.
 
stevelmx5 said:
However, I’d suggest getting to grips with shooting macro without the tubes first
Click to expand...

Oh yes. Just holding the camera steady taking trial shots at my desk is hard work. Suppose for indoor stuff I can get a slider and stack shots.
But how do you go on in the outdoors? It seems hard to be messing about with tripods etc., especially when shooting things that are likely to move if spooked.
 
mickledore said:
Oh yes. Just holding the camera steady taking trial shots at my desk is hard work. Suppose for indoor stuff I can get a slider and stack shots.
But how do you go on in the outdoors? It seems hard to be messing about with tripods etc., especially when shooting things that are likely to move if spooked.
Click to expand...

Personally I’ve never used a tripod to shoot macro because it’s to unwieldy. I’ve always held the camera in one hand, set the focus to magnification I want then just rock forwards/backwards to get the subject in focus. I’d then hold a flashgun in my other hand with a diffuser on it and trigger it remotely to add light.
 
stevelmx5 said:
Personally I’ve never used a tripod to shoot macro because it’s to unwieldy. I’ve always held the camera in one hand, set the focus to magnification I want then just rock forwards/backwards to get the subject in focus. I’d then hold a flashgun in my other hand with a diffuser on it and trigger it remotely to add light.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I've been doing. Good. All I need to do then is to perfect the technique.
 
As Steve said, a tube is a tube so can be fitted at either end of the converter (which I think is just an empty tube unless it's to match a non native lens to a Nikon body - these adaptors need an element or 2 in them to effectively shorten the flange/sensor distance).
Unlike Steve, I almost always use a tripod on the rare occasions I play with "proper" macro as opposed to close ups with a compact. Then again, I shoot static subjects rather than insects so set up time doesn't matter, although I might lose interest after too long!
 
Thanks Nod. I'm not really sure if I want to shoot static objects or insecty type thingies. It's very much a learning curve. I can't see me reaching the levels that guys on here have reached. For one thing I don't have the patience. (That's why I don't spend all day in a bird hide waiting for LBJs to appear)

It's fun. It's new. It's stuff to learn. And it keeps me occupied when it's raining.
 
Mr Perceptive said:
Does not get you to 1:1 if that's your bag

DOF changes as well with extension tubes, it can get mighty shallow very fast!!!
Click to expand...

Depth of field is dependant of magnification, and it matters not how you arrive at it, with Extension tubes or not.
Long extensions do change the exposure in line with the inverse square law.
However most modern cameras measure the light arriving at the sensor, so that is taken care of automatically.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top