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Asha

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#42
It's still very unusual for shops to be open on a Sunday in Germany and to a lesser degree France
Sadly that is changing in France.
When I came out here 16 years ago, almost everywhere was closed Sunday or if open such as bakeries, it was until lunchtime for most.
Very rapidly, "exceptoional opening" started with supermarkets opening their doors on a Sunday morning.
The French public thought it was cool.
When I discussed with locals to be careful about taking advantage of these open times as in time they would become the norm with free time and salaries for employees being affected, I was dismissed.
Now it is very much the norm….The main shopping street in Nice and the out of town commercial centers are heaving on sundays and bank holidays.
Even here in the village, shops open Sunday, some just the morning, others all day…..The local Spar is so busy between 10am and midday it's ridiculous!

Back in 2009 I had some English friends visit and they arrived on a saturday evening.
The Sunday they were horrified when we ventured out for a stroll and most places were closed ...It actually caused a debate / argument as to them demanding that stores SHOULD be open!
In addition, they expected store owners to speak English to "to accomodate" tourists……..something that has caused conflict between my own mother and i when she has expected similar!

Not only have we, as a race, demanded that every day becomes the same for our own selfish wants, but also that languages / cultures adapt to suit our needs when we go on holiday ......Imo, a very sad state of affairs!

So on that note, shall we arrange a Sunday film meet …..Ah no let's not attempt to as many of us won't be able to attend due to work commitments!
 
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#43
Now I'm excepting sole traders and small businesses as I realise they don't have the budget to open all hours.

As long as staff are getting their two days off and aren't being forced to work over time I don't have a problem with it. I refuse to go to shops on Boxing Day and New Years Day but I used to quite like being off during the week when shops were less hectic and the bank was open which was only possible because people who work all day expect services to be available to them when they're not at work which I don't think is unreasonable.
 

Asha

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#44
people who work all day expect services to be available to them when they're not at work which I don't think is unreasonable.
I consider it very unreasonable if the folk who man those services are expected to work unsociable hours as part as their "standard working hours hours and flat rate pay.
Here in France there remains quite a few employers who still offer a day in lieu for working holidays and extra pay ( ie double time) but for how long.….The trend for 24/7 working with flat rate pay is now evidently expected to be acceptable.
It never was by me and it never will be!
 
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#45
I consider it very unreasonable if the folk who man those services are expected to work unsociable hours
So you never eat out? Drink in a bar past 6 in the evening? Get public transport outside of "business hours"? Why are services people expected to work some of the most unsocial hours but retail is sacrosanct?
 

Asha

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#46
So you never eat out? Drink in a bar past 6 in the evening? Get public transport outside of "business hours"? Why are services people expected to work some of the most unsocial hours but retail is sacrosanct?

There is a big difference between "necessary services" to cover the essentials of everyday life ( public transport for getting to / from work, emergency services to cover accidents etc) and demanding a service for our own selfish pleasurable wants ( late night shop opening, 24/ 7 public transport to get anywhere anytime**, Pubs open all hours etc )

** Public transport would not be required on a Sunday for example ( it wasn't always available)!) if it wasn't for having to get to work or a want to go Sunday shopping…..Something that the poor bus/tran driver can't do cos he's commited to serve our selfishness..

Why are services people expected to work some of the most unsocial hours but retail is sacrosanct?
Retail is not an everyday necessity…..One can purchase products ( food, fuel, clothes in advance ( ie on a saturday to cover Sunday) without the need to have shops open their doors.
It is to a point, laziness on the part of society and of course a certain amount of financial greed on the part of retailers.
 
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#47
** Public transport would not be required on a Sunday for example ( it wasn't always available)!) if it wasn't for having to get to work or a want to go Sunday shopping…..Something that the poor bus/tran driver can't do cos he's commited to serve our selfishness..
So I'm not allowed to visit my gran on the other side of the city unless I'm willing to walk two hours each way or drive? I must be able to able bodied enough to get around on foot/bicycle or drive or spend Sunday confined to my house or garden?

Retail is not an everyday necessity….
nor is going to a restaurant or a bar but we would find it inconceivable if they were only open business hours.
 

Asha

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#48
So I'm not allowed to visit my gran on the other side of the city unless I'm willing to walk two hours each way or drive? I must be able to able bodied enough to get around on foot/bicycle or drive or spend Sunday confined to my house or garden?
Due to the demand of unsociable / Sunday working commitments, at least two TP ers / friends ( I mention no names) were unable to pass a couple of hours with me last year when i visited the south of England

nor is going to a restaurant or a bar but we would find it inconceivable if they were only open business hours.
I don't think I mentioned an expectation for services to only be available 9 to 5.
My dissagreement is the expectations of Joe blogs wanting just about everything available at any given moment regardless of the effects on family life and indeed health ( 12 hour shifts and night shifts are not good for ones health!)


IIRC you have a young family?...….Does it / would it not bother you if you were to find that you are unable to attend school plays etc etc because ou were tied to unsociable hours of work?
 

Asha

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#49
I have just made myself some lunch which includes a salad, only to find that i have no tomato.
Dammit, all the village retailers are closed ...The earliest one to reopen will be at 3pm .
How dare they close for lunch and not consider the possiblity that I may require them to be available to my needs....…..it is SUCH an inconvenience and totally unaaceptable!!!
 
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#50
because ou were tied to unsociable hours of work?
Even when the Sunday trading laws were in operation many people worked "unsociable" hours as part of their normal employment. Far from it being limited to the emergency services, 24/7 was a feature of railways, postal delivery, the telphone service, TV and radio, newspaper production and distribution, various manufacturing industries (I worked a 24 hour / 7 day shift system in the 1970s), agriculture, fishing - the list is extensive. The idea that British workers worked 9-5 for 5 days a week is a myth.
 
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#51
My dissagreement is the expectations of Joe blogs wanting just about everything available at any given moment regardless of the effects on family life and indeed health ( 12 hour shifts and night shifts are not good for ones health!)
If I've been at work all day I appreciate that some people are willing to work "abnormal" hours so that I can relax in a bar or grab my dinner. Not everyone wants to work 9-5 not everyone cares if they're scheduled to work on a Sunday. Not a single person ever left the bar because I was on hour 11 of my shift and I wouldn't expect them too.

IIRC you have a young family?...….Does it / would it not bother you if you were to find that you are unable to attend school plays etc etc because ou were tied to unsociable hours of work?
I do miss plays and stuff every year because I'm force to work "social" hours My company keeps "normal" business hours which massively overlap with school hours, I can't do school drop off because I'm expected to be in work for 9, I can't swap that Friday morning off for the nativity because my company is shut at the weekends.


Dammit, all the village retailers are closed ...The earliest one to reopen will be at 3pm .
Dammit I can't get a ferry because I live on the Western Isles and everything stops for the sabbath. Its your choice to live in a village I'm sure you could get a tomato in Paris...




Edit 6000th post and its an argument :D
 

Asha

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#52
not everyone cares if they're scheduled to work on a Sunday.
as I've already metioned….Until having to work that Sunday interferes with their scial / family life!

my company is shut at the weekends.
Good!
And hopefully that allows you to have quality time, undisturbed by your employer, with your family.

. Its your choice to live in a village
It's also my choice to dissagree with those who believe the " everything available all of the time society" that we live in is a ggod thing

Edit 6000th post and its an argument :D
I prefer to see it more as a "refusal to back down" on your part rather than an argument.:LOL::LOL:

Anyway I best go see if there's public transport available to do a return journey to Paris for my tomato.....:ROFLMAO:
 

Asha

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#53
Even when the Sunday trading laws were in operation many people worked "unsociable" hours as part of their normal employment. Far from it being limited to the emergency services, 24/7 was a feature of railways, postal delivery, the telphone service, TV and radio, newspaper production and distribution, various manufacturing industries (I worked a 24 hour / 7 day shift system in the 1970s), agriculture, fishing - the list is extensive. The idea that British workers worked 9-5 for 5 days a week is a myth.
I never believed that british workers worked nothing outside of 9-5 hours.
Your list of unsociable hour employment is valid, however that does not imo make the fact that a much higher percentage of employers now demand 24/7 availability from their employees any easier to swallow.
 
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#54
as I've already metioned….Until having to work that Sunday interferes with their scial / family life!

And hopefully that allows you to have quality time, undisturbed by your employer, with your family.
But thats the crux of my argument. It really doesn't!

My family/close social group includes a couple of office jockeys who like me are available only evenings and weekends, one nurse (for whom a schedule more than two weeks in advance is a pipe dream), a bus driver (shifts), a social worker (who can be on call), a hotel worker (who works most Sundays because office workers want to relax before they go back to work). If we all
worked in a shop it would be much easier, even Christmas isn't a guarantee we'll all be off.


I prefer to see it more as a "refusal to back down" on your part rather than an argument.:LOL::LOL:
:D
 

RaglanSurf

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#55
Even when the Sunday trading laws were in operation many people worked "unsociable" hours as part of their normal employment. Far from it being limited to the emergency services, 24/7 was a feature of railways, postal delivery, the telphone service, TV and radio, newspaper production and distribution, various manufacturing industries (I worked a 24 hour / 7 day shift system in the 1970s), agriculture, fishing - the list is extensive. The idea that British workers worked 9-5 for 5 days a week is a myth.
You're right the list is endless and I'm one of those people that work in the tv industry so I know all about unsociable hours, as do farmers fishermen etc but it's not a race to the bottom. We already work the longest hours in Europe often for a poor return. What I'm saying is that shops don't need to open for that long and I'm not saying I don't use them but if Tesco wasn't open at 3 in the morning when I'm on my way home from work I'd just wait for them to be open the next day or be more prepared.
It's unnecessary, divisive and in my opinion has a hugely detrimental effect on family life.
 
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#56
if Tesco wasn't open at 3 in the morning when I'm on my way home from work I'd just wait for them to be open the next day or be more prepared.
Be the change you want to see in the world? The shops are only open because people go, retailers are very sharp on costs. I don't shop on Christmas/Boxing Day and New years day/2nd because I believe everyone should have time off together I just don't see why it needs to be outside of office hours and every Sunday.
 
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#57
Long before Sunday opening was the legal norm I worked as a butcher. We were usually at work by 7am, had about 45 mins break at lunch when the shop shut, then worked till 5pm, leaving the shop at around 5.30pm after everything was washed, cleaned and put away ready for the next day. It was 'half' day closing on Saturday and Wednesday - I say 'half' day because we'd been there since 7am at the latest and didn't leave till about 1.30pm after the packing away and washing up was done. And don't even mention Christmas week, where we had to work significantly longer hours, including Xmas Eve, then be back at work again the day after Boxing Day.

So not exactly sociable hours there, plus we'd sometimes get moaned at by 'customers' who thought we should be open on a Saturday/Weds afternoon or still be there at their beck and call after 5.30pm! I wonder how many hours a week they worked... if at all, in the case of 'housewives' in those days?

I've always maintained that, on leaving school/college/uni, people should be made to work for at least 6 months in a shop… that way they might just learn how to behave when they go into one as a customer! :whistle:
 
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#58
I've always maintained that, on leaving school/college/uni, people should be made to work for at least 6 months in a shop… that way they might just learn how to behave when they go into one as a customer! :whistle:
I agree. I learnt a lot from my Saturday and holiday jobs. It’s quite different in a commercial environment to being at school.
 
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#59
Must just be what you are used to.

Like I said Sunday has been a pretty normal day in Scotland (at least the heathen lowlands) for as long as I can remember and society hasn't collapsed into a commercial orgy, well no more than the rest of the UK.
Wasn't there a large store in the centre of Edinburgh that was closed on Saturdays as the owner was Jewish and he refused to do business on that day? Think it was in the 70s that it closed...
 
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TheBigYin

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#60
I love Film & Conventional...

where else in the forum will a bland "have you tried xxx shop" turn into a discussion on the nature of celebrity and once again into the changing face of retail and all-week-round trading.

you don't get that in the rest of the forum - which is why I spend my recreational use forum-time here (playing whack-a-mole with ruskie e-book spammers or knocking heads in classifieds doesn't count as recreational, believe me...)

don't ever change guys.
 
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#61
Wasn't there a large store in the centre of Edinburgh that was closed on Saturdays as the owner was Jewish and he refused to do business on that day? Think it was in the 70s that it closed...
Aye, world famous Goldbergs. Probably the only shop of its type in Edinburgh too. Late 80s they went.
 
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#64
I love Film & Conventional...

where else in the forum will a bland "have you tried xxx shop" turn into a discussion on the nature of celebrity and once again into the changing face of retail and all-week-round trading.

you don't get that in the rest of the forum - which is why I spend my recreational use forum-time here (playing whack-a-mole with ruskie e-book spammers or knocking heads in classifieds doesn't count as recreational, believe me...)

don't ever change guys.
Mark I think we need a public service from you, since you're out there anyway you could report back on interesting threads. Just stumbled across Simons thread on zines, there must be more content
 
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#68
Will be passing not too far away from this shop, in possibly a couple of weeks or so. Might pop in, provided I get the time. I wonder if they close for lunch, I did not see any mention of it, in their opening times.
 

Asha

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#69
I wonder if they close for lunch
If the entry doors refuse to open when you get there then…......:runaway:you'll have to go put extra monies into the parking meter, thenkill some time by occupying yourself with other retail therapy in outlets that are open, have a meal and something to drink then return after lunch to fall in love with a lens that you can ill afford cos you're skint! :LOL:

Sorry John, I have a strange humour:help::LOL:
 
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#70
If the entry doors refuse to open when you get there then…......:runaway:you'll have to go put extra monies into the parking meter, thenkill some time by occupying yourself with other retail therapy in outlets that are open, have a meal and something to drink then return after lunch to fall in love with a lens that you can ill afford cos you're skint! :LOL:

Sorry John, I have a strange humour:help::LOL:
LOL

Not sure how long our Hospital appointment will be, can always pop in just after lunch. That depends on how things go, we may not feel like trekking through town, after we have been to the Hospital.
 
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